[Eug]

I have a Kaysound MK-6101 MIDI controller. It was useful to learn very basic stuff, but it really is a POS and the keys are not weighted at all. When I sat down to my sis's baby grand, I basically couldn't play anything because I wasn't used to the weight.

So, I was gonna give it to a family member (who basically wants it just to arrange loops, etc.) and buy myself a used MIDI keyboard/sampler. I want something with a reasonable piano feel, preferably with half-decent piano sounds.

Anything recommended in the $500-1000 range? Would say a Casio PX700 digital piano be worth $450?

P.S. I'd probably pick up iLife 2010 when it comes out in January for the piano lessons.

[RAILhead]

DUDE, quit looking and buy a Nord Electro 2 -- then be done with it!

Buy Nord Electro 2 Sixty-One Stage Piano/Organ | Stage Digital Pianos | Musician's Friend

You'll get pianos, Rhodes, Wurlies, B3, etc. -- the best of all worlds. It also has great action.

[RAILhead]

Here's my Nord on the stand my 1977 Rhodes Mark I (which I am in the process of restoring):

[RAILhead]

double post

[CharlesS]

If you want to be able to play comfortable on a real piano, the best thing is to get a real piano. Go to the store, find a decent upright, and it'll feel closer to a real piano than any digital, even though it's just an upright. I like Kawais, but some people who are not me like Yamahas and Baldwins. Go try some out and find one you like.

[CharlesS]

Sorry, double post

[RAILhead]

He won't find a decent one for around a grand.

[CharlesS]

That's true, you need to put in a bit of an investment. It's worth it, though.

[Spheric Harlot]

The nord electro 2 is my weapon of choice, as well, but with all respect to RAILhead: the pianos SUCK.

It's the best digital Hammond I've ever played (which is why I bought it), and the clavinets are absolutely killer. But the Rhodes samples are rubbery and anaemic, completely lacking character, and the Wurlitzer is functional at best.

The nord electro 3 rectifies the situation, allowing you to use the excellent Nord Stage samples (adding a bunch of much-missed sounds and features in the update).

But the 2's strengths are precisely the two types of sounds that you do NOT want a weighted keyboard for - you cannot play a proper Hammond or clavinet with weighted keys.

I love clavia's nord stuff, but these animals are built for the stage, not for the home learner.


To be honest: look around craig's list and ask around: people are giving away pianos basically for free. Get an upright, have it fixed up, and you will actually learn to play the piano (you've already seen the difference on that grand), and you will so so on a living, breathing instrument.

Best of both worlds: yamaha silent piano.

[Phileas]

Originally Posted by RAILhead 

He won't find a decent one for around a grand.

You can get pianos, especially uprights, for next to nothing all the time. We've got ours, in excellent condition, in exchange for a donation to a music charity.

Craigslist is full of pianos looking for a good home.

[RAILhead]

I think y'all are missing the OP point: he wants to learn and screw around.

OBVIOUSLY, if I were going to recommend something for someone already versed in playing, I would recommend all manner of other things, potentially — but for someone wanting to learn, about the best bang for the buck WHILE STAYING IN HIS BUDGET will be the Nord Electro 2.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by RAILhead 

I think y'all are missing the OP point: he wants to learn and screw around.

OBVIOUSLY, if I were going to recommend something for someone already versed in playing, I would recommend all manner of other things, potentially — but for someone wanting to learn, about the best bang for the buck WHILE STAYING IN HIS BUDGET will be the Nord Electro 2.

As much as I love the Nord electro 2, your post is a total fail, I'm afraid.

a) as per the original post, he's been screwing around for a while now, and sitting down at a real piano, has discovered that it hasn't done dick for lack of a decent keyboard.

b) I just realized that there IS NO NORD ELECTRO WITH WEIGHTED KEYS. He'll need the Nord Stage (not electro) for that, and while the stage also absolutely excels at piano sounds, it's also more than twice his budget. He WILL NOT LEARN TO PROPERLY PLAY THE PIANO WITHOUT WEIGHTED KEYS (and has explicitly asked for options with a weighted keyboard).

c) I love love love the Nord stuff, but their features and functionality are BUILT FOR THE STAGE, not for dicking around at home.

He wants to learn to play the piano. He doesn't need a rockin' stage machine with a an unweighted keyboard and a bunch of great features that are geared towards live musicians with the need for an occasional piano sound.

Even a used Yamaha KX88 master keyboard with a cheap MIDI interface to play the GarageBand instruments would probably be a better choice for his needs.

[Eug]

Yeah thx, but to be specific:

1) I thought of a real piano but I want something that can be noiseless and be used with headphones. I do have one room which would be perfect for a baby grand (or an upright), but it's not actually where I want to use it.

2) I would prefer MIDI support. I won't have MIDI support once I get rid of my POS Kaysound.

3) I would like fully weighted keys.

4) I would prefer a good built in piano sound, but that's less important as I can use GarageBand if necessary. That level of quality is fine by me.

Like I said I've just been dabbling with it, and don't know if I'll ever have the patience to learn to even a grade 5 Royal Conservatory level. However, if I were to really learn to play, I'd probably buy a baby grand. My sis's baby grand has a Kawai BTW. She was looking at a Yamaha, but didn't want to pay the price premium.

I mentioned the digital piano because it met all those criteria, and there happened to be one on Craigslist. However, I would prefer one without a built-in stand.

EDIT:

Heh. I see a Yamaha Disclavier grand on Craigslist. That would be cool.

[Laminar]

Double post.

[Eug]

This is the one I was considering:



Ratings online are that this Privia PX-700's weighting is very good, the sound is pretty good too, but it's not really comparable to a $2000 Yamaha. No "aftertouch" type sensitivity, but full velocity sensitivity, etc. Build quality is OK but not great. Discontinued.

Plus, it only has 32-note polyphony, so that means beyond beginner level (ie. me) you'd probably want to upgrade, to something with 128-note polyphony if you're gonna be using the sustain quite a bit. The current PX-800 (and PX-830?) has 128 polyphony, "aftertouch" like support, and an SD card slot, and retails for a little under $1000, with street prices a bit lower. However, I'm not keen on buying a $1000 machine at this point, which is why I'm considering the used PX-700 for $450.

Originally Posted by Laminar 

Double post.

There is no other post in this thread from you.

I've been having problems with this site too though, in the last couple of days.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Yeah thx, but to be specific:

1) I thought of a real piano but I want something that can be noiseless and be used with headphones. I do have one room which would be perfect for a baby grand (or an upright), but it's not actually where I want to use it.

A lot of upright pianos come with a practice mute, which is either a little lever you can pull or a replacement for the middle pedal (since most uprights don't have a real sostenuto pedal anyway). This puts a piece of felt between the hammers and the strings, making the piano a *lot* quieter.

2) I would prefer MIDI support. I won't have MIDI support once I get rid of my POS Kaysound.

Why get rid of it? Keep the keyboard around for when you need to use MIDI. Best of both worlds.

3) I would like fully weighted keys.

Even a digital with weighted keys is not going to feel the same as an acoustic piano with the entire mechanism there. If you want to play well on a real piano like your sister's baby grand, a real piano is the way to go.

My sis's baby grand has a Kawai BTW. She was looking at a Yamaha, but didn't want to pay the price premium.

She made a good decision, IMO. Kawais aren't perfect, but I like their sound better than Yamahas, which sound beautiful when they're right out of the factory but get really harsh and strident after they've been played on for a while.

[Spheric Harlot]

The trick with Yamahas is that their hammer felts are *intentionally* set too hard from the factory, and need to be softened to taste when you buy the piano (and, of course, by the piano tuner every couple of years, as with every other piano).

Still, I'm not terribly in love with Yamaha's basic sound (my piano teacher had two custom-order grands, though, that were just incredible).

Their mechanics will last your grandchildren's lifetime with minimal maintenance, though.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

A lot of upright pianos come with a practice mute, which is either a little lever you can pull or a replacement for the middle pedal (since most uprights don't have a real sostenuto pedal anyway). This puts a piece of felt between the hammers and the strings, making the piano a *lot* quieter.

Yeah, my family had an upright and I tried using that. Hated it.

I would much prefer something much smaller and that can take headphones.

Why get rid of it? Keep the keyboard around for when you need to use MIDI. Best of both worlds.

1) Cuz a family member wants it.
2) If I get a digital piano, I'll have nowhere to put that keyboard.
3) If I decide I need the other MIDI bells and whistles I'd likely get a higher end MIDI sampler with weighted keys. However, that's a long way off, cuz I'm a n00b.

Even a digital with weighted keys is not going to feel the same as an acoustic piano with the entire mechanism there. If you want to play well on a real piano like your sister's baby grand, a real piano is the way to go.

Yeah, I realize that, but I'm willing to compromise for the sake of space. That may be sacriledge to some but hell, a concert pianist friend of mine says anything less than a grand piano is a waste of time.

She made a good decision, IMO. Kawais aren't perfect, but I like their sound better than Yamahas, which sound beautiful when they're right out of the factory but get really harsh and strident after they've been played on for a while.

She actually prefers the Yamahas (as does my concert pianist friend), but felt the Kawai was the much better bang for the buck cuz it cost a heluvalot less.