[ghporter]

I'm ready to start pulling wires through my walls to install rear speakers for my home theater system. All the walls in question are interior walls without internal insulation (thick wallboard, and solid construction, just no filler), and I'm working with existing wiring boxes. I am familiar with the requirements for in-wall/in-ceiling network cabling to be "plenum rated" for fire and toxic smoke safety, but I can't find similar ratings for anything labeled "audio wiring" or "speaker wiring" (or the equivalents with "cabling").

I want at least 16ga wire for two rear channels, and would prefer to only pull one unified cable. Is a 4 conductor cable without twisted pairs OK for rear channel speakers? If not, what would the correct cable be called? Again, I'm interested in the "right" kind of cable, with plenum-rated-equivalent jacketing.

[residentEvil]

not sure why you are gung ho on plenum rated...

but here you go: Monster Standard In-Wall Speaker Cable 16 ga, 4 Conductor, 500 ft - Smarthome

rated for in wall use; with a UL Class 3 rating. crutchfield sells some too.

here are few more choices; never used them though. i've shopped crutchfield and smarthome all the time.

http://www.broadbandutopia.com/monstercable.html



and before you ask, CL3 is (UL Class 3 rating) is proper:

(from http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/inwallrating.htm)

NEC Article 640: Audio Interconnects and Speaker Wires

Audio interconnect cables and speaker wires fall under Article 640, and so whether they can be installed in-wall or in other specific settings will depend on that article. Under NEC 640.21(C), these are in turn governed by Article 725, "Class 1, Class 2, and Class 3 Remote-Control, Signaling, and Power-Limited Circuits."

General installation of wiring, including installation inside of walls, is governed by 725.61(E), the principal features of which, for our purposes, are:

* (1) CL2 and CL3 are always permitted;
* (2) CL2X ("X" is a residential suffix, signifying a lower grade than plain CL2) or CL3X may be installed in raceways;
* (3) CL2X or CL3X, if under 1/4 inch in diameter, may be installed in a 1 or 2 family residential dwelling without a raceway; if nonconcealed, it may also be installed in multifamily dwellings.

So, if a cable isn't marked CL2 or CL3, is it suitable for in-wall installation? It may be. The NEC allows cable of a higher rating to be substituted for a lower rating, and therefore, any of the following may be used: CM, CMP, CMR, CMG, CL2R, CL3R, CL2P, CL3P, PLTC. CMX also may be used where CL2X or CL3X is required.

In a plenum, 725.61(A) governs; CL2P or CL3P are required, and CMP is a permitted substitution.

A riser presents a bit different situation, governed by 725.61(B). If you're in a single or two-family dwelling, CL2, CL3, CL2X and CL3X may be used (and, of course, any of the substitutions listed above). In a commercial building or multifamily dwelling, any of those cables are permitted if they are installed in metal raceways or located in a fireproof shaft having firestops at each floor. In a commercial or multifamily building, without a raceway or shaft, if the vertical run of the cable penetrates more than one floor, CL2R or CL3R must be used (or any of these substitutes: CMR, CMP, CL2P, or CL3P).

[olePigeon]

I'm sure anything that says Monster or BOSE on it should be great.

[Atheist]

Whatever you buy, it should cost at least $10/ft.

[residentEvil]

the OP said he couldn't find similar ratings on in-wall speak wiring that would be equivilent to plenum rated. i pointed out 3 sources where he could buy such wiring that had the correct rating and included the spec so the OP could read why i posted what i did.

not up to me to find other manufactures/pricing

i personally wouldn't put in plenum rated either (unless a house inspector/code official was telling me to), let alone monster cable brand of said rating. but that isn't what was asked for.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

I'm sure anything that says Monster or BOSE on it should be great.

-t

[ghporter]

residentEvil, thanks! So UL Class 2 or 3 is what I'm looking for, right? I can find a number of well respected wire brands at local home improvement stores, so I'll check out the ratings of their wiring. I'd go with sources you listed, but most of them are packaged in 500ft boxes-WAY too much for my little project.

I've seen "audio cable" with four conductors, but it's not listed as "two pair," let alone two twisted pairs. Since the links you gave included products similarly marked, i.e. "Monster Standard 16-Gauge, 4-Conductor In-Wall Speaker Cable, 500-Ft. Spool," I have to assume that other "good brand" cables I could get locally would work. Am I missing something? I'm not "against" using Monster brand products, just against feeling like I didn't even get kissed when it comes to the retail price tag (I've seen otherwise identical 16ga "Monster" speaker wire go for as much as 4 times the price of other 16ga speaker wire).

[BadKosh]

Is the cable installed in the preferred 100 percent grounded copper tubing so the nails in the wall won't alter the reactance? Double blind tests can't tell a difference between 2 strands of 12 Ga per side and banana jacks and the high priced spread.

[residentEvil]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

residentEvil, thanks! So UL Class 2 or 3 is what I'm looking for, right? I can find a number of well respected wire brands at local home improvement stores, so I'll check out the ratings of their wiring. I'd go with sources you listed, but most of them are packaged in 500ft boxes-WAY too much for my little project.

I've seen "audio cable" with four conductors, but it's not listed as "two pair," let alone two twisted pairs. Since the links you gave included products similarly marked, i.e. "Monster Standard 16-Gauge, 4-Conductor In-Wall Speaker Cable, 500-Ft. Spool," I have to assume that other "good brand" cables I could get locally would work. Am I missing something? I'm not "against" using Monster brand products, just against feeling like I didn't even get kissed when it comes to the retail price tag (I've seen otherwise identical 16ga "Monster" speaker wire go for as much as 4 times the price of other 16ga speaker wire).

Correct; you need to look for CL2 or CL3 rating. (crutchfield also says the same thing: Speaker Wire: Choosing and Installing)

I'm a big fan of monoprice.com for my ethernet and patch cables, so i don't see why, if i needed to, i wouldn't try them out for speaker wire.

they have HELLUVA lot better pricing, and the quality is top notch. here is the speaker wire:

Speaker Wire

their spools start at 50', much easier to manage and, i would run 14 gauge myself, not 16.

[Eug]

I believe plenum wire is for air ducts, etc., so you don't need it. Yeah, just get the in-wall rated stuff.

As for speaker wire gauge, this table provides a reasonable rule of thumb. Unless the room is pretty small, I'd probably just run 14 gauge, since it's not gonna break the bank and it's fairly widely available.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by residentEvil 

I'm a big fan of monoprice.com for my ethernet and patch cables, so i don't see why, if i needed to, i wouldn't try them out for speaker wire.

I use them for video adapters. They're literally 1/5 the price of Apple for stuff like mini-DVI to DVI adapters, and their cables are built better.

[residentEvil]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

I use them for video adapters. They're literally 1/5 the price of Apple for stuff like mini-DVI to DVI adapters, and their cables are built better.

i've switched all my interconnects in my audio/video setups, including theater in the basement, to all monoprice.com stuff. been very happy with quality and fantastic prices.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by residentEvil 

Correct; you need to look for CL2 or CL3 rating. (crutchfield also says the same thing: Speaker Wire: Choosing and Installing)

I'm a big fan of monoprice.com for my ethernet and patch cables, so i don't see why, if i needed to, i wouldn't try them out for speaker wire.

they have HELLUVA lot better pricing, and the quality is top notch. here is the speaker wire:

Speaker Wire

their spools start at 50', much easier to manage and, i would run 14 gauge myself, not 16.

Well a trip out last night opened my eyes. Knowing to look for "CL2" or "CL3" helped a lot-there are a LOT of audio cables with those ratings for decent prices. And as I said, if I can find it locally (and not pay shipping), I want to do it that way. But that "Loud" brand 14ga 4-conductor stuff looks VERY attractive!

Originally Posted by Eug 

I believe plenum wire is for air ducts, etc., so you don't need it. Yeah, just get the in-wall rated stuff.

As for speaker wire gauge, this table provides a reasonable rule of thumb. Unless the room is pretty small, I'd probably just run 14 gauge, since it's not gonna break the bank and it's fairly widely available.

The problem was that I wasn't seeing 14ga speaker wire where I was looking. That was in part because I wasn't looking in the right places, and I've fixed that. I do plan to go with 14 gauge, not because the room is large or small, but because I want to have "more than enough" capacity in stuff I can't easily swap out, including in-wall cable.

There is only "plenum" and "non-plenum" UTP cabling, nothing in between, and that was the only context I knew to frame my question in. Generally, if a network cable is in an accessible space, you can use any type, but if it's in a space that "might" be an airway, it needs to be plenum. Riser applications (as in a vertical space in a wall) are usually speced for plenum UTP because of the possibility of chimneying in a fire.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

I'm not "against" using Monster brand products, just against feeling like I didn't even get kissed when it comes to the retail price tag (I've seen otherwise identical 16ga "Monster" speaker wire go for as much as 4 times the price of other 16ga speaker wire).

If you have nothing against using Monster Cable to date, this ought to change your mind:

Monster Cable Correspondence

Take some time; it really is worth the read. (Incidentally, this guy is the owner of Blue Jeans cable, also linked to above.)

"Not only am I unintimidated by litigation; I sometimes rather miss it."

That little collection of correspondence alone is worth buying from Blue Jeans Cables.

[Eug]

I love it!

"After graduating from the University of Pennsylvania Law School in 1985, I spent nineteen years in litigation practice, with a focus upon federal litigation involving large damages and complex issues. My first seven years were spent primarily on the defense side, where I developed an intense frustration with insurance carriers who would settle meritless claims for nuisance value when the better long-term view would have been to fight against vexatious litigation as a matter of principle."

[ghporter]

Oh ho! So that is where the "fishy" smell behind "everything Monster" came from. I had a vibe, nothing more, based I thought on products that seemed to be more packaging and ad hype than substantive... But since it goes deeper than that, I will accept that I was simply "right" about them.

Interestingly, it has taken me several hours to figure out that "loud" is not a brand advertised by Monoprice... Been a long time since I thought of home speakers as "loudspeakers."

[residentEvil]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

Oh ho! So that is where the "fishy" smell behind "everything Monster" came from. I had a vibe, nothing more, based I thought on products that seemed to be more packaging and ad hype than substantive... But since it goes deeper than that, I will accept that I was simply "right" about them.

Interestingly, it has taken me several hours to figure out that "loud" is not a brand advertised by Monoprice... Been a long time since I thought of home speakers as "loudspeakers."

i wouldn't let the wording in their descriptions bother you/set off flags. monoprice has top not products and prices that almost never can be beat.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by Eug 

My first seven years were spent primarily on the defense side, where I developed an intense frustration with insurance carriers who would settle meritless claims for nuisance value when the better long-term view would have been to fight against vexatious litigation as a matter of principle.[/i]"

His first mistake was thinking principles and morals have anything to do with being a lawyer.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by residentEvil 

i wouldn't let the wording in their descriptions bother you/set off flags. monoprice has top not products and prices that almost never can be beat.

I buy a lot of stuff from Monoprice, and I can assure you they sell top notch products... and they sell a fair amount of junk as well.

[residentEvil]

Originally Posted by Eug 

I buy a lot of stuff from Monoprice, and I can assure you they sell top notch products... and they sell a fair amount of junk as well.

and i can assure you that if the OP chose to buy the wire he is looking at, he will be happy.

[SSharon]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

Monster Cable Correspondence

Take some time; it really is worth the read. (Incidentally, this guy is the owner of Blue Jeans cable, also linked to above.)

"Not only am I unintimidated by litigation; I sometimes rather miss it."

As a recent law school graduate (where I focused on intellectual property) I really enjoyed reading that.