[mattyb]

I like Lily Allen, and not just because of her music. She doesn't seem like some dumb pop-star, in fact her song thats popular in France, "Fcuk You" has some really clever lyrics.

Anyway, have a read. I tend to agree with what she says.

[The Final Dakar]

Unless it involves her tits, I really don't care.

[ort888]

Great, so what does she want to do about it?

[Doofy]

Not this again. :facepalm:

I thought we'd already sorted this and decided that all music pirates should be shot in the face with a Pancor Jackhammer.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Not this again. :facepalm:

I thought we'd already sorted this and decided that all music pirates should be shot in the face with a Pancor Jackhammer.

No, the only people that agreed on that were the people that monetarily benefit from the current system.

[Chuckit]

It's simplistic and lacking in factual support. Doofy's posts here have been more informative and more entertaining analyses on the matter IMO. Lily's take is also mostly backwards — file sharing is generally more beneficial for new, unknown talent because when you're new, the challenge is getting anybody to listen to your music. Unknown artists have been giving out free music (whether in the form of free concerts or demo tapes) for a long time now. Making lots of money comes later.

Also, I personally didn't care for the lyrics to "**** You." Musically it works well, but I thought the lyrics were were a bit ham-fisted and obvious. "The Fear" is much better and wittier.

Something else that nobody seems to be talking about and I'm not sure why: How to eliminate the large up-front cost of making music. This seems more likely to be doable than defeating the Internet through civil suits.

[ort888]

Yo Lily, Im really happy for you, Imma let you finish but Metallica are the best piracy whiners OF ALL TIME...

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

ISomething else that nobody seems to be talking about and I'm not sure why: How to eliminate the large up-front cost of making music. This seems more likely to be doable than defeating the Internet through civil suits.

That would be because the people who benefit from the up-front costs are the ones who do all the complaining.

[mattyb]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

It's simplistic and lacking in factual support. Doofy's posts here have been more informative and more entertaining analyses on the matter IMO. Lily's take is also mostly backwards — file sharing is generally more beneficial for new, unknown talent because when you're new, the challenge is getting anybody to listen to your music. Unknown artists have been giving out free music (whether in the form of free concerts or demo tapes) for a long time now. Making lots of money comes later.

Also, I personally didn't care for the lyrics to "**** You." Musically it works well, but I thought the lyrics were were a bit ham-fisted and obvious. "The Fear" is much better and wittier.

Something else that nobody seems to be talking about and I'm not sure why: How to eliminate the large up-front cost of making music. This seems more likely to be doable than defeating the Internet through civil suits.

Isn't Lily Allen one of the first Myspace artists to make it really big? She didn't need much cash to get noticed on myspace.

I *think* that the lyrics of **** You are about the leader of the British National Party.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by mattyb 

Isn't Lily Allen one of the first Myspace artists to make it really big? She didn't need much cash to get noticed on myspace.

I know, and that would have been an interesting angle Lily could have explored.

Originally Posted by mattyb 

I *think* that the lyrics of **** You are about the leader of the British National Party.

I think they're just as specific as they sound: If you're socially conservative, then Lily doesn't like you. There's certainly nothing about them that's only applicable to Nick Griffin.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by mattyb 

Isn't Lily Allen one of the first Myspace artists to make it really big? She didn't need much cash to get noticed on myspace.

Also didn't hurt that she has a famous father...

[The Final Dakar]

Woody Allen?

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

Woody Allen?

No, she's single.

[The Final Dakar]

Ray Allen?

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by ort888 

Yo Lily, Im really happy for you, Imma let you finish but Metallica are the best piracy whiners OF ALL TIME...

Ah hahahaha.

[Laminar]

Tim Allen.

[ajprice]

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

Also didn't hurt that she has a famous father...

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

Woody Allen?

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

Ray Allen?

Originally Posted by Laminar 

Tim Allen.

Keith - Keith Allen (I)

(He's most recently been the Sheriff of Nottingham in Robin Hood).

[Phileas]

Would that be Lily " I've got to get my boobs out at every conceivable opportunity" who goes on coke binges and falls into drunken stupors at restaurant tables Allen? Now there's a girl who believes her own BS and then some.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Phileas 

Would that be Lily " I've got to get my boobs out at every conceivable opportunity" who goes on coke binges and falls into drunken stupors at restaurant tables Allen?

Yes, that's the one. Not sure I'd class those as "boobs" though.

[Chuckit]

Yes, many guys feel comfortable showing off parts that look much the same. Don't see any reason to hate on Lily for it.

[mattyb]

Originally Posted by Phileas 

Would that be Lily " I've got to get my boobs out at every conceivable opportunity" who goes on coke binges and falls into drunken stupors at restaurant tables Allen? Now there's a girl who believes her own BS and then some.

Ah. I didn't know about that side of her. Oh well, just another fookin waste of space pop-star then.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by Lily Allen

You don’t start out in music with Ferraris. You start with a huge debt from your record company, which you spend years working to repay. When you get a contract, all those videos and posters have to be paid for — and you, the artist, pay for them.

I’m lucky that I have been able to pay back the money I owe the record company, but not everyone is so fortunate. The more difficult it is for new artists to make it, the fewer new artists we will see and the more music will be nothing but puppets paid for by Simon Cowell.

This complaint is nonsense. Videos don't have to be expensive, and posters are dirt cheap. And the real expense of starting up - recording - is dirt cheap in this day and age.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

Unless it involves her tits, I really don't care.

You're thinking Katy Perry, whose tits are in fact spectacular.

[The Final Dakar]

No, I wasn't. Thanks for playing, come back real soon.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

This complaint is nonsense. Videos don't have to be expensive, and posters are dirt cheap. And the real expense of starting up - recording - is dirt cheap in this day and age.

Not a recording that holds up well against what people are used to in terms of quality. A quality recording is still very expensive.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

And the real expense of starting up - recording - is dirt cheap in this day and age.

No.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Not a recording that holds up well against what people are used to in terms of quality. A quality recording is still very expensive.

Wrong. Many bands made it big on inexpensive recordings, ie Rage Against the Machine and Foo Fighters spring to mind pretty quickly. The biggest recording expenditures for new acts are "successful producers" and wasted studio time.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

Wrong. Many bands made it big on inexpensive recordings, ie Rage Against the Machine and Foo Fighters spring to mind pretty quickly. The biggest recording expenditures for new acts are "successful producers" and wasted studio time.

A low quality recording that succeeds succeeds in spite of its low quality, not because of it. This can be done, but it doesn't change the fact that there are standards to meet, standards that the public expects in a recording, and not meeting those standards puts the project at a disadvantage.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

Wrong. Many bands made it big on inexpensive recordings, ie Rage Against the Machine and Foo Fighters spring to mind pretty quickly.

Oh yeah. That Eventide which Tom Morello used on the album Rage Against The Machine was real inexpensive.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Not a recording that holds up well against what people are used to in terms of quality. A quality recording is still very expensive.

How about a recording that sounds decent over iPod earphones?

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Oh yeah. That Eventide which Tom Morello used on the album Rage Against The Machine was real inexpensive.

I can't find any references to Morello using any Eventide gear. His setup is pretty basic, with only 5 stomp boxes. Got a link?

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

A low quality recording that succeeds succeeds in spite of its low quality, not because of it. This can be done, but it doesn't change the fact that there are standards to meet, standards that the public expects in a recording, and not meeting those standards puts the project at a disadvantage.

There are no such "standards." The public buys music they like, and the industry signs acts they think with sell. If anything, the industry wastes most of its money trying to polish the musical turds of acts they think will sell because they're good-looking or edgy. Frankly, music today sounds worse than fifteen years ago because it's all over-compressed.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

How about a recording that sounds decent over iPod earphones?

That's actually a pretty interesting question. I would think that most artists aim to have their albums sound good across the whole spectrum of listening devices, but limiting a song or an album to iPod listening is an interesting idea.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

I can't find any references to Morello using any Eventide gear. Got a link?

Nope. But I can tell you right now that it was a H3000 he used.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

That's actually a pretty interesting question. I would think that most artists aim to have their albums sound good across the whole spectrum of listening devices, but limiting a song or an album to iPod listening is an interesting idea.

More expensive, since you've got some weird spatial thing going on with headphones. It's more about keeping the silence between notes sounding better, so you're talking more expensive pre-amps, desk, etc..

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Nope. But I can tell you right now that it was a H3000 he used.

Whatever, offer some proof or drop it. Besides, you can rent gear for recording, and no one's gonna buy expensive gear if they don't tour with it.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

That's actually a pretty interesting question. I would think that most artists aim to have their albums sound good across the whole spectrum of listening devices, but limiting a song or an album to iPod listening is an interesting idea.

In the past, the real test of a recording was the car stereo.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

A low quality recording that succeeds succeeds in spite of its low quality, not because of it.

Not necessarily.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

No, I wasn't. Thanks for playing, come back real soon.

Sorry, I think "British pop star" and "tits," and I think of Katy Perry.

[The Final Dakar]

Yeah, Katy Perry ain't british.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by ort888 

Yo Lily, Im really happy for you, Imma let you finish but Metallica are the best piracy whiners OF ALL TIME...

Jeez, how long ago was that? Do you ever forget a grudge?

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

Yeah, Katy Perry ain't british.

Huh? Really? [quick google] son of a ...

For what it's worth, I mostly know of Perry from Fark.com, where stories about her mostly seems to come from dailymail.co.uk. My bad.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

Whatever, offer some proof or drop it.

Is there some reason why you can't type the words "Morello" and "H3000" into Google yourself?

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

Besides, you can rent gear for recording, and no one's gonna buy expensive gear if they don't tour with it.

You haven't got the slightest idea what you're on about, have you?
Guitarists don't rent gear like an H3000 for the duration of a recording session if they're using it as an integral part of their sound as Morello did on that album. For starters, all the riffs (and thus the songs) need to be written around the harmonisation. And that's after you've spent at least six months getting to grips with the thing.

And if you did know what you were talking about, you'd know that most rentals are for live use because it's a pain in the neck to lug gear around on planes, while studio gear rental is so expensive that it's cheaper to simply buy the bit of gear you need.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

In the past, the really test of a recording was the car stereo.

So, not the Auratones then?

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by mattyb 

I *think* that the lyrics of **** You are about the leader of the British National Party.

Wrong. They are about GWB.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Is there some reason why you can't type the words "Morello" and "H3000" into Google yourself?

I did before, using "Eventide" and "Tom Morello," and nothing came up, plus many other sites indicate that Morello sticks closely to a simple 5 effect loop. But I humored you, clicked on every link on the first page, and not a single page said Morello used the H3000 or any other Eventide gear on that first album or any other Rage Against the Machine album. On the contrary, this site says he used the H3000 on a single Audioslave song. (Of course, it's a post on a forum like this, so it's suspect.) How many pages of Google results would satisfy you?

So back to you: do you have any evidence Morello uses an Eventide on that first Rage album? Or do I have to search the entire goddamn internet to prove your point for you?

You haven't got the slightest idea what you're on about, have you?
Guitarists don't rent gear like an H3000 for the duration of a recording session if they're using it as an integral part of their sound as Morello did on that album.

Proof? Seriously, man up or shut up.

For starters, all the riffs (and thus the songs) need to be written around the harmonisation. And that's after you've spent at least six months getting to grips with the thing.

And if you did know what you were talking about, you'd know that most rentals are for live use because it's a pain in the neck to lug gear around on planes, while studio gear rental is so expensive that it's cheaper to simply buy the bit of gear you need.

Yes, artists never, ever rent gear for albums, or hire an engineer who understands hi-tech gear. Never. Ever.

My original point remains: the first Rage album was recorded cheaply, and remains an effective counter-point that recording must be a crazy expensive situation.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

Yes, artists never, ever rent gear for albums, or hire an engineer who understands hi-tech gear. Never. Ever.

My original point remains: the first Rage album was recorded cheaply, and remains an effective counter-point that recording must be a crazy expensive situation.

Very rarely, if any. Anything that fundamentally changes how an instrument works, responds, and is meshed into music requires practice and experimentation. Even something as simple as a mic requires practice to get used to its responsiveness and overall sound depending on its distance away from the origin of the sound, etc. (Google "mic technique"). This is why musicians and bands have riders, are very specific about what equipment they use, how the stage should be setup, and often travel with the equipment they want to use including mics. Bands never just randomly make a change without both a careful audition and practicing enough to really figure out how these new sounds will best be integrated and balanced.

A band could rent a particular make and model of equipment while touring, maybe even while they are experimenting or rehearsing with it, but it is highly unlikely that they'll continue to rent something they actually need for their state side use.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

So back to you: do you have any evidence Morello uses an Eventide on that first Rage album? Or do I have to search the entire goddamn internet to prove your point for you?

You can if you like. I don't need Internet proof to know I'm right.

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

Yes, artists never, ever rent gear for albums, or hire an engineer who understands hi-tech gear. Never. Ever.

Using an Eventide in the way used on that album is impossible to do on the fly. Any guitarist will tell you this. Any guitarist will also tell you that it was impossible to get that sound without an Eventide at that point in history.

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

My original point remains: the first Rage album was recorded cheaply, and remains an effective counter-point that recording must be a crazy expensive situation.

And I'm telling you it wasn't. You can't get that sound cheaply. If you think you can, then either you're deaf or have no idea what you're talking about. Or both.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

You can if you like. I don't need Internet proof to know I'm right.

Feel free to be right in your own mind. Hell, be the Dalai Lama in your own mind if you want to. I'll gladly agree with you if you can offer a single shred of proof. Otherwise, just shut it.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

Feel free to be right in your own mind. Hell, be the Dalai Lama in your own mind if you want to. I'll gladly agree with you if you can offer a single shred of proof. Otherwise, just shut it.

Let's go at it from a different angle. You assert that Rage Against The Machine was a cheap album to make.

Yes, I'm sure getting Bob Ludwig in as a mastering engineer is a real cheap way to go about doing things.