[msuper69]

Ok so I've got nothing better to do and I ran across the acronym ISO in another thread and it got me started thinking.

On the official ISO web site ISO - International Organization for Standardization, the full name of the organization is "International Organization for Standardization".

So why isn't the acronym IOS?

The French version of the website has "Organization internationale de normalisation" so ISO is not derived from French.

[ghporter]

Click me!

ISO is not an acronym or initialism for the organization's full name in either official language. Rather, the organization adopted ISO based on the Greek word isos (ἴσος), meaning equal.

I had thought it had something to do with not having the acronym be either French or English, but the real answer was more interesting.

[msuper69]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

Click me!

I had thought it had something to do with not having the acronym be either French or English, but the real answer was more interesting.

Well this will be a short thread.

Thanks! I should have wikied first.

[ghporter]

I went to the ISO web site first, and didn't see a "history" link pop up, so I gave Wiki a try. It was easier than I though to get to the bottom of the question.

Now, let's keep the thread going longer. Why is it that, with such an estimable organization like ISO and others like IEEE and such, some companies can't keep from diddling with "standardized" stuff, and/or coming out with mutually incompatible stuff that could easily have been standard-based?

[CharlesS]

Because then said companies can make money selling you peripherals and adapters to go in their non-standard ports, and they can jack the price way up since they have no competition. <cough> <MagSafe> <cough>

[msuper69]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

Because then said companies can make money selling you peripherals and adapters to go in their non-standard ports, and they can jack the price way up since they have no competition. <cough> <MagSafe> <cough>

Perhaps, but MagSafe has protected my MacBook/MBA from my own clumsiness more than once so I'm ok paying a huge premium. Much cheaper than having to get a laptop computer repaired because the screen is cracked.

[CharlesS]

As long as you consider $80 vs. $20 (the price of a third-party iBook/PowerBook adapter) to be a "slight" premium.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

Because then said companies can make money selling you peripherals and adapters to go in their non-standard ports, and they can jack the price way up since they have no competition. <cough> <MagSafe> <cough>

Bravo, you used the *one* example where I'm really glad Apple was innovative and went their own way.

Btw, one standard for power plugs is NOT desirable. Computers run on different voltages. If there was ONE plug physically connecting to all computers, how easily would you blow up one computer by accidentally using the wrong power source ?

-t

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

As long as you consider $80 vs. $20 (the price of a third-party iBook/PowerBook adapter) to be a "slight" premium.

Yes, ceteris paribus.

If only we could convince the Chinese to make their knock offs comparable in quality and durability

-t

[CharlesS]

... or convince Apple to make a MagSafe car charger, or a MagSafe-connected external battery (especially for the new Macs that have non-swappable batteries), or pretty much anything other than the plain-jane AC charger.

Unfortunately, a third-party adapter from anyone other than the Chinese can't ever happen thanks to Apple's patents on MagSafe. We used to be able to get PowerBook/iBook chargers from companies like Macally. Not anymore.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Btw, one standard for power plugs is NOT desirable. Computers run on different voltages. If there was ONE plug physically connecting to all computers, how easily would you blow up one computer by accidentally using the wrong power source ?

Same way you blow up a MacBook by connecting it to a MacBook Pro charger... oh wait, it doesn't blow up, it just works.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

Same way you blow up a MacBook by connecting it to a MacBook Pro charger... oh wait, it doesn't blow up, it just works.

Dude, WTF

I really hope this was a bad joke.

I guess you didn't get that I was talking about standard power plus across multiple computer manufacturers, hence, standard.

-t

[CharlesS]

Those two power adapters run at different voltages, yet they don't blow up. This proves that it's physically possible.

All you'd need to do for a standard would be to have a mechanism that does the same damn thing as the MBP charger does.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

Those two power adapters run at different voltages, yet they don't blow up. This proves that it's physically possible.

All you'd need to do for a standard would be to have a mechanism that does the same damn thing as the MBP charger does.

No.

The different MagSafe adapters supply the *SAME* voltage, but they provide different levels of power (due to different levels of current).

Too much current is not a problem, as only the needed current is "consumed".
However, if you don't supply enough current, you'll blow your adapter.

Different voltages are a huge risk and could blow up your main board (but most likely not the adapter).

-t

[msuper69]

Wow. These posts really seem to go downhill quickly.

Everybody take a step back.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by msuper69 

Wow. These posts really seem to go downhill quickly.

Everybody take a step back.

I'm sorry, but a CharlesS post occurred.

-t

[msuper69]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

...

Now, let's keep the thread going longer. Why is it that, with such an estimable organization like ISO and others like IEEE and such, some companies can't keep from diddling with "standardized" stuff, and/or coming out with mutually incompatible stuff that could easily have been standard-based?

This is a cheap shot I know but.....

you mean like Microsoft and how they've bastardized web standards?

I freaking hate it when a web site assumes you're using Windows.
Time to start a "Things that pi$$ me off" thread.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by msuper69 

Time to start a "Things that pi$$ me off" thread.

There's a whole forum for that...

-t

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

No.

The different MagSafe adapters supply the *SAME* voltage, but they provide different levels of power (due to different levels of current).

Too much current is not a problem, as only the needed current is "consumed".
However, if you don't supply enough current, you'll blow your adapter.

Different voltages are a huge risk and could blow up your main board (but most likely not the adapter).

-t

So, just have a mechanism by which the adapter can ask the device what voltage to use. Or vice versa. After all, they seem to be able to make adapters that can switch between 110V and 220V easily enough, and those two are slightly different.

Or just standardize the amount of voltage to use.

[msuper69]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

There's a whole forum for that...

-t

Yeah but I was thinking of a thread for stuff like stupid moronic TV ads that insult your intelligence.

[msuper69]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

So, just have a mechanism by which the adapter can ask the device what voltage. Or vice versa.

Or just standardize the amount of voltage to use.

There is a world-wide voltage standard, either 120/240, which Apple's power adapters automatically detect.

It's the current that varies.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

So, just have a mechanism by which the adapter can ask the device what voltage. Or vice versa.

Or just standardize the amount of voltage to use.

Sure, but that's far beyond standardized plugs and connectors.

Of course, if every computer make would agree to only use x Volts for charging, then one plug could work. You'd still have the issue of undersupplied power (current).
The problem is that the computer doesn't necessarily know when it's sucking more power than the adapter can supply. I'm not an EE, so I can't tell if there are smart ways to detect before an adapter craps out due to too high power load.

-t

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by msuper69 

There is a world-wide voltage standard, either 120/240, which Apple's power adapters automatically detect.

It's the current that varies.

No, that's not it.

Your computer doesn't take 120V directly, the adapter transforms AC 120V into 16.5V DC. That DC voltage is different with every manufacturer.

-t

[CharlesS]

All I know is that if there were a standard, or even if there weren't a standard but Apple didn't go and PATENT the stupid power adapter, we'd be able to go get a power adapter somewhere that wouldn't be prone to catching fire like the MagSafe ones are, and they'd probably cost 1/4 the price.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

All I know is that if there were a standard, or even if there weren't a standard but Apple didn't go and PATENT the stupid power adapter, we'd be able to go get a power adapter somewhere that wouldn't be prone to catching fire like the MagSafe ones are, and they'd probably cost 1/4 the price.

You are probably right about the lower cost.
The fire hazard might still exist.

Btw, there's class action law suit against Apple regarding this (California Northern District Court, case number 5:2009cv01911.)

As it stands right now, I don't trust Chinese knock-offs. I'm not gonna jeopardize my $1,200 MBP to safe $30 on an adapter.

-t

[CharlesS]

But what if the adapter came from a good company like Macally, which we could have if not for Apple's stupid patented adapter?

The quality would probably be better, since they probably wouldn't demand form over function to the extent that Apple does (which is the reason the MagSafe adapters are so failure-prone, and the reason why you have to jeopardize not only your $1,200 MBP but also your 5 or 6 digit house and all the rest of your possessions to a fire-hazard adapter).

[Spheric Harlot]

The macally adapters aren't "good", by any stretch of the term.

Btw, LMP makes MagSafe car adapters from recycled busted adapters.

[CharlesS]

My dad used to have a bunch of third-party iBook/PowerBook adapters (I think they were Macally, but I'm not sure) - he set up one in his office, and a couple in various places in the house, so that he could just carry his laptop from place to place and have a place to charge it already set up, and so that my siblings and I didn't have to bring chargers with us when we came home to visit every so often. They seemed to work pretty well - the only downside was that they didn't have the cool LED ring around the connector, but that's hardly necessary.

[ghporter]

I was originally thinking about MS and how they "improved" things like Java and HTML, and how there has FINALLY been progress on a STANDARD connector for cell phone charging/linking. But MagSafe is a good example of something that is different with a purpose. I think the extra $60 or so for a genuine Apple power adapter is MUCH preferable to the several hundred dollars it would cost to replace a screen or otherwise repair a laptop that got yanked off the desk by the power cord. It's also my understanding that the logic in the MagSafe adapters allows them to provide the right amount of power (current times voltage) to the notebook.

Keeping in mind that there are several sets of electronics between the wall plug and the guts of the notebook, I would assume that there is some sort of regulator in each notebook that controls what voltage comes in from the connector; if Dell can do this with their eleventy billion different Latitude/Inspiron/M?? models that all use the same series of power adapters, I would expect Apple to do it much better. So you CAN use an MBP's adapter on a MacBook or even an Air because the hardware was designed properly.

Frankly, I'd like to see an improvement in the MagSafe adapter line: make the MagSafe cord replaceable. But aside from that, I like 'em a whole lot. Again, it's a good example of inventing something new for a reason.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Bravo, you used the *one* example where I'm really glad Apple was innovative and went their own way.

Apple's also got a lot of proprietarization around the iPod/iPhone adapters. Fancy little chip in the adapter tells the device whether it's been blessed by Apple or not. The result = $50 video adapters that used to be $20, $5 reverse-engineered adapters that strangely stop working after every iPod/iPhone OS update and previous generation Apple-approved accessories not working.

[Spheric Harlot]

And then re-enabled the following update…or not.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

And then re-enabled the following update…or not.

I've got 2 third-party iPhone video adapters. Both stopped working immediately after an iPhone OS software update. Neither work currently. I've got a 3rd Gen iPod dock that my computer can't recognize my iPod Touch through. I've got a bunch of 4th Gen era iPod cables that my Touch will charge through but won't pass data.

[Spheric Harlot]

I know of one video cable that stopped working with 2.0 and started working again with 2.1 or 2.2.