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olePigeon · Oct 22, 2009, 05:07 PM

Can you actually buy computers at the Microsoft store? Or is it like the Gateway and Dell stores where you can only look at the product, then have to buy it online anyway and wait for it to be shipped?

According to various websites, Microsoft put the copier machine in overtime for their store.

Sosa · Oct 22, 2009, 05:25 PM

There is a video over at macrumours.com, it is really disgusting! It is such an obvious, blatant copy. Can't Microsoft come up with anything original? Wow.

Oisín · Oct 22, 2009, 05:37 PM

There’s an actual, physical Microsoft store?!

ort888 · Oct 22, 2009, 05:41 PM

I just read a story that mentioned some guy bought a laptop, so I guess you can. I think it was an HP.

sek929 · Oct 22, 2009, 06:01 PM

Originally Posted by Oisín

There’s an actual, physical Microsoft store?!

The sliding doors that lead in ask if you want to allow or deny your own entrance.

Chuckit · Oct 22, 2009, 06:52 PM

Originally Posted by ort888

I just read a story that mentioned some guy bought a laptop, so I guess you can. I think it was an HP.

He probably wanted to do video editing.

Art Vandelay · Oct 22, 2009, 07:13 PM

No, he wanted to "cut" video.

olePigeon · Oct 22, 2009, 09:07 PM

Originally Posted by ort888

I just read a story that mentioned some guy bought a laptop, so I guess you can. I think it was an HP.

Physically bought one and took it out with him? Or did he buy one from an internet kiosk, and will receive it in 3 to 5 days?

ort888 · Oct 22, 2009, 10:55 PM

At least one customer was seen purchasing an HP TouchSmart PC, one of the third-party hardware options available.

Doesn't actually specify. It sounds like he bought an actual computer but it's worded in a way that it isn't a certainty.

AppleInsider | Exclusive photos, video from Microsoft Store grand opening

JoshuaZ · Oct 22, 2009, 11:47 PM

I remember when I once walked into a Gateway Computer Store (remember Gateway/ Gateway 2000?). It was horrible.

I can only guess at the horror that Microsoft has put together in their store.

Maybe they'll have a nice XBox section.

Chuckit · Oct 23, 2009, 02:57 AM

Considering they appear to have ripped off the Apple Store as much as possible, it seems likely they'll have hardware for sale.

ctt1wbw · Oct 23, 2009, 04:29 AM

Last time I checked, MSFT was out of Washington state. So why put a store way down in Scottsdale, AZ?

OreoCookie · Oct 23, 2009, 05:23 AM

I don't get it. Microsoft forgets more and more what Microsoft is: they are a software company that in many ways does not compete with Apple. They copy Apple more and more and forget who they are themselves. Plus, they lack focus. (And yes, I absolutely agree, why put the first store in the Middle of Nowhere, AZ? Why not, say, Seattle, or New York or some other metropolis?)

E. g. they have at least four different efforts to bring touch screen functionality to mobile devices: (1) the Zune HD, (2) Project Pink (MS bought Danger, the company that made the HipTop; it seems they have axed the project), (3) Windows Mobile 6.5 (widely regarded as a failure, even for a stop-gap solution) and (4) Windows Mobile 7.

Why doesn't the Zune use some form of Windows Mobile 7? Why do they (presumably) make a UI for Windows Mobile 7 that is not based on that of the Zune HD? Apple does a very good job here: they have one mobile platform (I'm not counting the regular iPods that don't have a third-party app ecosystem). This maximizes the reach of your platform: if MS had used Mobile 7 for the Zune HD, people could start develop for it and be sure it also runs on future Windows Mobile 7 phones.

osiris · Oct 23, 2009, 09:15 AM

I shall eat a large quantity of beans, then go and wait in the Microsoft store.

ort888 · Oct 23, 2009, 10:19 AM

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

I don't get it. Microsoft forgets more and more what Microsoft is: they are a software company that in many ways does not compete with Apple. They copy Apple more and more and forget who they are themselves. Plus, they lack focus. (And yes, I absolutely agree, why put the first store in the Middle of Nowhere, AZ? Why not, say, Seattle, or New York or some other metropolis?)

E. g. they have at least four different efforts to bring touch screen functionality to mobile devices: (1) the Zune HD, (2) Project Pink (MS bought Danger, the company that made the HipTop; it seems they have axed the project), (3) Windows Mobile 6.5 (widely regarded as a failure, even for a stop-gap solution) and (4) Windows Mobile 7.

Why doesn't the Zune use some form of Windows Mobile 7? Why do they (presumably) make a UI for Windows Mobile 7 that is not based on that of the Zune HD? Apple does a very good job here: they have one mobile platform (I'm not counting the regular iPods that don't have a third-party app ecosystem). This maximizes the reach of your platform: if MS had used Mobile 7 for the Zune HD, people could start develop for it and be sure it also runs on future Windows Mobile 7 phones.

Seriously. Microsoft just needs to ignore Apple and their ads. Well, mostly their ads. Responding to them at all is a stupid move for them. They have 90% of the market. They don't need to respond to that pesky little dog yipping at their feet.

Sosa · Oct 23, 2009, 12:06 PM

Well I don't agree that they should not respond to Apple Ads, those commercials can become damaging over the long run and people may begin to assume everything they say is true. They do need some sort of campaign, but I agree they do not need to be as aggressive as the little guy! These stores though ... if I was a Microsoft follower I would be insulted, a straight copy of the competition.

It reminds me of how insulted I was when I woke one day and saw "Intel Inside" on Macs.... I'm still not over this, as you can see by my signature below!
:-)

Thorzdad · Oct 23, 2009, 12:52 PM

Re: Why in Scottsdale?
I suspect for a variety of reasons. For one, it's just off-the-radar enough so that, if the store bombs, it can go-away without MS taking the kind of PR damage closing a NYC store would engender. A Scottsdale closing can more easily be dismissed with a "It was just a test market anyway" press release.

Scottsdale also has a fairly sizable upper-middle-class population for a mid-size market. $$$

Art Vandelay · Oct 23, 2009, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

why put the first store in the Middle of Nowhere, AZ?

I wouldn't call one of the top five largest metropolitan areas in the country the middle of nowhere.

olePigeon · Oct 23, 2009, 01:04 PM

The other thing I don't understand. Dell and HP sell products on customization. You can do whatever you want with the computer to get the price you want.

So why would I buy a pre-configured PC at the Microsoft Store when I can one for cheaper direct through Dell? Plus Dell and HP usually have those extra $50 or $100 off with their weird deals when you buy online.

Art Vandelay · Oct 23, 2009, 01:06 PM

It's interesting how they've been attacking Apple for premium pricing and then they put their first store in one of the ritziest shopping centers in the Phoenix area.

ctt1wbw · Oct 24, 2009, 05:49 AM

Yeah, Scottsdale is a nice area. I'd give an arm and a leg to be able to afford to live there. But this is akin to Dell, a US based company, releasing products in China and Japan first. Uh, hello? Look at a map lately?

OreoCookie · Oct 24, 2009, 03:11 PM

Originally Posted by ort888

Seriously. Microsoft just needs to ignore Apple and their ads. Well, mostly their ads. Responding to them at all is a stupid move for them. They have 90% of the market. They don't need to respond to that pesky little dog yipping at their feet.

Well, yes and no: in the media, even main stream media, Microsoft is compared to Apple. People will say `oh, the new task bar looks and acts a lot like the Dock.' Even when you browse Thurrot's page, he writes stuff like this. So in the minds of main stream journalists, even, they are compared to Apple -- despite Apple's single-digit marketshare.

And the thing Microsoft forgets the most is what Microsoft is really good at. They think they have to compete in every niche and space: high performance clusters, mobile devices, big iron servers, cheap desktops, search engines, video sites, flash, etc. etc. There is no big strategy investing into areas where there is either no competition or where they think they can make a better product.

Take bing, for instance: why would they want to rival google here? Google has spent countless man-years to create and improve their search engine infrastructure -- and the product works rather well. Why can't Microsoft let it go and focus on things where they think they can make better products (e. g. certain apps)?

Similarly, why do they want to challenge Apple in a market where there is little money made for them, the Zune? Is it just prestige?

Apple's approach (and I don't like all ramifications of their approach) is better: they let google do the search and deliver the maps to the iPhone. But they write a nice client/web browser for the iPhone.

OreoCookie · Oct 24, 2009, 03:12 PM

Originally Posted by Art Vandelay

I wouldn't call one of the top five largest metropolitan areas in the country the middle of nowhere.

Is it really that big? I've never heard of Scottsdale before.

ctt1wbw · Oct 24, 2009, 03:22 PM

Scottsdale is pretty much inside the Phoenix limits, just on the outskirts. It's a huge area.

Cold Warrior · Oct 24, 2009, 03:24 PM

Phoenix is the kidnapping capital of the USA. Maybe if the store is failing, MS will have the cartels nab the employees, then they'll have an excuse to close the store.

PB2K · Oct 24, 2009, 05:11 PM

I remember a 70's interview with a young Bill Gates, they asked him how he would keep his competitive edge. He replied with "I'll hire the smartest and brightest people on the market and buy all new technologies ! " or something like that. It stuck on me because it turned out that a newcomer like google is a serious competitor when it comes to buying the best resources. Microsoft has lost it's cool as an employer.

hyteckit · Oct 24, 2009, 07:32 PM

Haha... Microsoft store opens.

YouTube - Welcome to the Microsoft Store

PB2K · Oct 25, 2009, 03:04 AM

what a depressing place

they have all gone insane

at least their shirts have some color, unlike apple store salesmen (who look like hairstylists from an 80's vidal sassoon commercial)

Spheric Harlot · 06:28 AM

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

And the thing Microsoft forgets the most is what Microsoft is really good at. They think they have to compete in every niche and space: high performance clusters, mobile devices, big iron servers, cheap desktops, search engines, video sites, flash, etc. etc. There is no big strategy investing into areas where there is either no competition or where they think they can make a better product.

It feels to me like Microsoft can sense their hold is slipping.

The only reason they still are where and what they are is inertia, and prior investment, in the business arena. In the home market, users are already showing that there's nothing inherent to Windows that's keeping them on the platform other than cheap hardware (which isn't a Microsoft strength, but an external dependency).

Microsoft has basically killed Windows Mobile (their treatment of Danger/Pink and their own PlaysForSure "standard" has ensured that they won't ever find a committed hardware partner EVER again), having squarely check-mated themselves out of the biggest growth market in the near future.

The only solution they can think of is to throw immense amounts of money at *anything* that has worked for others (with complete disregard and lack of understanding for *why* it has actually worked for them), in hopes that something will stick once their stalwart markets actually begin to slide.

It may seem that Microsoft is far too big and powerful to need to get nervous, but we've seen Internet Explorer shrivel from 90+% to under 70%, so I don't think it's unrealistic to believe that this is a shuffling of impending elephant panic and blowing cash through its trunk.

It's gotta burn to open your own high-profile store, and the only tangible stuff on display isn't actually yours. Effectively, you're reduced to a third-party retailer unless you're just selling upgrade licenses for something everybody's already got on their computers (with Microsoft not actually making any real money on the OEM license), but that's a straw-fire, not a long-term business plan.

PB2K · Oct 25, 2009, 07:32 AM

nicely put

I'm sure the Xbox-and Zune corner can attract some people. It would make more sense if they helped people install 7 over X on their intelmacs.

Spheric Harlot · Oct 25, 2009, 07:41 AM

Oh yeah! Forgot about the Xbox. (I did intentionally forget about the Zune, but so does everybody else.)

Well, that changes things completely, of course.

That's Microsoft-branded hardware there that isn't making them any money. Whole different ballgame from third-party hardware that doesn't make them money.

Seriously: Is this Microsoft pulling an Apple and building retail outlets to sell their own goods and capitalize on the coolness factor generated by their products (like the iPod), except without their own goods or the coolness factor? Or is the Xbox the driving factor here (it certainly doesn't seem that way)?

PB2K · Oct 25, 2009, 08:24 AM

i think this shop is just a vessel to personalize the sale of 7 to the customer. Most customers already have a quality laptop with Vista on it and will be really delighted with the immediate speed increases that 7 will bring them.

Perhaps we'll see more stores with the release of Xbox 4 and a Microsoft Phone

Spheric Harlot · Oct 25, 2009, 08:30 AM

There won't be a Microsoft phone.

AppleInsider | Exclusive: Pink Danger leaks from Microsoft's Windows Phone

Why Microsoft Will Slaughter Its Windows Mobile and PC Partners, and What it Means for Apple and Google

Read and weep, and understand why I wrote above

Microsoft has basically killed Windows Mobile (their treatment of Danger/Pink and their own PlaysForSure "standard" has ensured that they won't ever find a committed hardware partner EVER again), having squarely check-mated themselves out of the biggest growth market in the near future.

PB2K · Oct 25, 2009, 08:39 AM

considering recent developments I wouldn't be surprised if they release one anyhow

Spheric Harlot · Oct 25, 2009, 08:44 AM

Originally Posted by PB2K

considering recent developments I wouldn't be surprised if they release one anyhow

Somebody'd have to want to build it for them, though.

Doofy · Oct 25, 2009, 09:44 AM

Originally Posted by hyteckit

Haha... Microsoft store opens.

YouTube - Welcome to the Microsoft Store

Dear Colonials,

If you become any more infused with Ballmer consciousness, as displayed in this video, I'm going to have to make it my life's work to kill you all.

Yours sincerely,
Doof

PB2K · Oct 25, 2009, 02:09 PM

Grand Opening Apple Store Cherry Hill NJ

Grand Opening Microsoft Store Scottsdale AZ

feel free to compare

osiris · Oct 25, 2009, 02:24 PM

Apparently Microsoft's employees are also extras on Teletubbies.

PB2K · Oct 25, 2009, 02:46 PM

welcome to the social

Chuckit · Oct 25, 2009, 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot

Somebody'd have to want to build it for them, though.

Like somebody had to want to build the iPhone for Apple?

Spheric Harlot · Oct 25, 2009, 03:49 PM

BUILD, not "assemble".

Subtle, but crucial difference.

Like somebody (Sharp) built the devices for Danger and is understandably irritated about the "leaked" images of the new Microsoft phone (based on Pink/Danger) being from Motorola.

Or, if it's not Pink, but Windows Mobile, like those 80 different manufacturers Ballmer touted at the end of last year, who were building WinMo devices (of which, IIRC, a mere four remain).

Considering that either Microsoft screwed over Sharp in their Pink development, or Sharp AND Motorola AND T-Mobile if they are now killing off Danger/Pink entirely in favor of a WinCE-Based Windows Mobile 7, OR Microsoft screwed over every single Windows Mobile licensee by killing off WinMo entirely and switching to Danger/Pink (yah right), AND Microsoft ****ed up every single music store other than iTunes by usurping their own licensing contracts for "PlaysforSure" with the release of the Zune and its Zune Marketplace:

Who the hell is gonna partner with these morons in the mobile space, now that Android is around?

Chuckit · Oct 25, 2009, 03:55 PM

What I'm saying is, nobody had to want to build the iPhone for Apple because Apple built the device itself. Microsoft could go the same route. Just because it's used hardware partners up to this point doesn't mean it always will.

Spheric Harlot · Oct 25, 2009, 03:58 PM

Ah, gotcha.

I suppose it's a possibility.

OreoCookie · Oct 25, 2009, 05:19 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

What I'm saying is, nobody had to want to build the iPhone for Apple because Apple built the device itself. Microsoft could go the same route. Just because it's used hardware partners up to this point doesn't mean it always will.

It could. But then this isn't the rhetoric I'm hearing from Microsoft, Ballmer constantly emphasizes how many partners he has. If you think about it, it's in Microsoft's pedigree: they got big on the business model to sell software to partners which make the hardware. In the PC market, this is arguably the better business model (if you are interested in selling as many boxes as possible). In other markets not so much. Game consoles and music players, for instance, work much better if the same vendor makes hardware and software. The devices Microsoft has developed itself (Zune, XBox) don't turn a profit, so I doubt they'll go that route.

I've read rumors today that they are interested in buying RIM. That'd be Danger Reloaded: it's a company that has a solid foothold in the smartphone market and they are strong in the business sector. But I'm certain they'd fail again if they tried that.

The ones that use Windows Mobile often don't really use Windows Mobile in the way it was intended: HTC, for instance, puts their own interface on top. Aside from the question whether their interface is that much better, they could put the interface on top of Android or something else.

I remember a few months ago, there was an interview with Steve Ballmer in a German newspaper. Ballmer was asked what he thought of netbooks (that took off as a product right around that time). Ballmer mocked the machines and told the interviewers that he uses a $2k Toshiba tablet instead. And that tablets are the next big thing. Just imagine if some smart people who work for The Beast suggest the higher ups to optimize some version of Windows for netbooks, what do you think the brass is going to do?

Spheric Harlot · Oct 25, 2009, 05:31 PM

At the current rate, I'm starting to think that the only thing that can save Microsoft is somebody rounding up and shooting the entire higher management level.

Not that I'm advocating this, mind you.

mattyb · Oct 26, 2009, 06:37 AM

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot

Why Microsoft Will Slaughter Its Windows Mobile and PC Partners, and What it Means for Apple and Google

Very interesting. His attack article on John Dvorak is quite funny as well.