[Spheric Harlot]

Again: The ads most likely to affect you are the ones you *don't* remember.

The billboard out of the corner of your eye. The catchy phrase that greeted you from the transistor radio in the corner tobacco shop yesterday. And two hundred other instances so subtle that probably only people like Phileas would ever be able to point them out to you.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Phileas 

Anybody who claims that he/she isn't influenced by advertising is fooling themselves, including the elusive Doofy.

People like me spend considerable amounts of brain power to influence and cajole you without you even noticing it.

No Phil, you're fooling yourself. Didn't your training in advertising tell you that there's people outside the curve who you won't reach and thus you should concentrate your efforts on those that you can?

You know those little questionnaires which marketers put out to test the waters? They *always* tell me to get lost by the end of the first page because I'm so far off the target profile they know it's not going to work.

Why would you be spending money and brain power to draw people like me in when the millions of people who're inside the curve are a much easier target?

I don't have a TV. I don't take a newspaper. I don't listen to the radio. I don't go into stores (have a P.A. who does that for me). I don't see billboards (too busy looking at my speedo). How exactly do you think you're reaching me?

[calverson]

Yes, I am running a 50 billboard campaign for a company, as well as flyer distribution.

Traffic to the website literally increased by a factor of 15, and inquiries about the product went from 3 or 4 a week to 15 a day.

So, yes, generally people are swayed by advertising. If they were not, I wouldn't have a job

[Phileas]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

No Phil, you're fooling yourself. Didn't your training in advertising tell you that there's people outside the curve who you won't reach and thus you should concentrate your efforts on those that you can?

I don't work in advertising. I work in the influencing people business.

You know when there's a friendly voice answering when you're calling a company, rather than a computer? If that company is our client, that's probably our doing.

When there's a website that shares knowledge, rather than try to sell you stuff? So you get to trust the information, maybe even rely on it? Again, that's what we do.

If you're going to an event, and there's a sponsor in the background, making it all possible? Yep, us again.

If there's green graffiti (messages cleaned from urban dirt) that doesn't even contain a marketing message but leading back to a business? That would be us.

You're making the mistake, along with many others who are posting in this thread, to equate advertising with commercials and print ads. Sure, they are still around but they are only one small weapon in the arsenal and they are becoming increasingly irrelevant. No offense intended, but it looks to me that your knowledge of the people influencing business is equal to mine of the music business, limited.

You are constantly influenced by everything you see around you, everybody is. My business is to manipulate your environment in a way that creates favourable outcomes for my clients.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Phileas 

You are constantly influenced by everything you see around you, everybody is.

But that's the point... I'm just not influenced by anything other than my own personal experience. You should know me well enough by now to know that I'm not BSing here.

Originally Posted by Phileas 

My business is to manipulate your environment in a way that creates favourable outcomes for my clients.

The only way you can influence my environment is to actually design the items I test/buy in such a way that they're better for the job I intend to use them for than the competition's product. Period.

Your techniques may work on the vast majority of people but you simply have to accept the fact that they don't work on everybody (as you've been stating)... Especially those of us whose job it is to tell people what music they like to listen to.

[SSharon]

Originally Posted by Phileas 

I don't work in advertising. I work in the influencing people business.

You know when there's a friendly voice answering when you're calling a company, rather than a computer? If that company is our client, that's probably our doing.

When there's a website that shares knowledge, rather than try to sell you stuff? So you get to trust the information, maybe even rely on it? Again, that's what we do.

If you're going to an event, and there's a sponsor in the background, making it all possible? Yep, us again.

If there's green graffiti (messages cleaned from urban dirt) that doesn't even contain a marketing message but leading back to a business? That would be us.

You're making the mistake, along with many others who are posting in this thread, to equate advertising with commercials and print ads. Sure, they are still around but they are only one small weapon in the arsenal and they are becoming increasingly irrelevant. No offense intended, but it looks to me that your knowledge of the people influencing business is equal to mine of the music business, limited.

You are constantly influenced by everything you see around you, everybody is. My business is to manipulate your environment in a way that creates favourable outcomes for my clients.

So how does this play into my rule of only choosing the cheapest plane tickets? I don't care if Southwest airlines has the ugliest planes and a computer answering their phones, the flights are cheaper and so there I am.

Even when I think of a product category that I don't exclude myself from (like fast food) such as consumer electronics I read reviews and then make an educated purchasing decision. I've heard of companies paying people to write amazon reviews, is that what you mean by people influencer? I do buy from newegg even when they are slightly more expensive because I like their customer service though.

When I look around my apartment at the things I've purchased junk food is probably the only item that were there no ads I wouldn't have known about it or purchased it. I guess the ads work to get me to try the product and then if I like it I'll get more obviously.

[Laminar]

But all of your arguments rely on the influences that you're consciously aware of. That's not what good advertising and customer influencing is about.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

But all of your arguments rely on the influences that you're consciously aware of. That's not what good advertising and customer influencing is about.

I'd love to know what Phil's been cooking up to influence you to buy all those vintage Hondas.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

I'd love to know what Phil's been cooking up to influence you to buy all those vintage Hondas.

The notion that every purchasing decision we make is a direct result of an advertisement is absurd. But so is the idea that anyone could be absolutely 100% immune to any type of influence, subconscious or otherwise.

[osiris]

Here's an example of good advertising subconsciously affecting people, maybe this has happened to you:

A TV commercial or a print ad for a car appears - it doesn't have to be an all new model, but just a catchy ad for an upgraded model. Maybe the song sticks in your head, whatever...

Then you start seeing these cars all over the place. And it's not because the population of these cars suddenly increased, it's just that your brain is tuned to this car. You pretty much subconsciously look for this car - though you're not consciously aware of it. I think that's good advertising.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

The notion that every purchasing decision we make is a direct result of an advertisement is absurd. But so is the idea that anyone could be absolutely 100% immune to any type of influence, subconscious or otherwise.

The whole thing looks like a bell curve, I expect, with most people falling somewhere in the middle... but there's always going to be people at either end of the spectrum (no doubt my opposite number is busy buying whatever he saw on TV last night). That's why we have bell curves - it's the natural way of things.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by SSharon 

So how does this play into my rule of only choosing the cheapest plane tickets? I don't care if Southwest airlines has the ugliest planes and a computer answering their phones, the flights are cheaper and so there I am.

Which website do you use to find the cheapest flights?

How did you find it? (If you answer "Google", you lose.)

Originally Posted by SSharon 

When I look around my apartment at the things I've purchased junk food is probably the only item that were there no ads I wouldn't have known about it or purchased it. I guess the ads work to get me to try the product and then if I like it I'll get more obviously.

I'm sure the advertising industry is perfectly happy knowing they've only reached you WRT junk food choice - if that's really the case, which I doubt, since you probably buy toothpaste, shower gel, soft drinks, and sports shoes, as well.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

I'd love to know what Phil's been cooking up to influence you to buy all those vintage Hondas.

He might be involved with the companies that make the hip, er, cool leather jackets and Chucks that go with the self-perception of motorbike fixer-uppers.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

He might be involved with the companies that make the hip, er, cool leather jackets and Chucks that go with the self-perception of motorbike fixer-uppers.

But that's cart before horse, ain't it? I suspect Lammy will have decided to fix bikes up then go buy the appropriate clothing... rather than decide to fix bikes up because Phil's persuaded him that he wants to wear the clothes.

I suspect that Phil's fell into his own BS trap a little. Easily done if you're in "sales" mode all day and you've got to hit those companies with the BS sales patter the moment the phone rings.

[SSharon]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

Which website do you use to find the cheapest flights?

Good point. But again, I may have learned about all of the travel websites from ads, but the one I use in the end is the one that gets me the best price. It is still an example of an ad making me aware of the existence of a product or service and then some other factor (price) entirely controlling my decision as to when to take out the credit card.

A gave junk food as an example, because if I look at my credit card bill from the last 3 years I've had relatively few expenses. Tuition, rent, health insurance, car insurance, gas, food, and then one time purchases like my new MBP or my iphone. I don't see movies in theaters, my car is 18 years old, I don't have a choice as to broadband/tv service, and the list goes on.

I'm not saying that I have never subconsciously been drawn toward a product or service, only that as Doofy says there is a bell curve and I am way on one side of it.

[ort888]

Package design is another form of advertising. When you are in the store and want some ice cream, and there are 10 different brands of chocolate chip, do you just get the cheapest one? Or do you skip it because the box looks crappy and you fear it might be of a lesser quality? What influences your decision at this point?

How do you think brand X wound up right at eye level? Random chance? Why do you think sprinkles ended up next to the ice cream? Random chance?

It's a combination of price, package design, advertising, previous experience with the brand, etc... but a LOT of it is advertising and marketing.

If you want to buy an appliance or something large, you might go out and read reviews, you might shop around, etc... but you are going to be more inclined to buy a name brand, because companies with well known name brands are recognized because they have spent decades advertising. People will buy a Kenmore refrigerator before they buy a fridge with a name the don't recognize. Why have you heard of the brand? Why do you associate Kenmore with quality fridge? Is it because you friend recommended it? Is it because you've owned one before? Do you even know? No, you really don't. The main reason is because they have spent tons of money putting their brand name out there for decades.

It's not so much that we see an ad that says "GO BUY A FRIDGE" and you go out and buy one. All of the ads we are surrounded with are registering in our brains in ways we don't want to admit that they do.

[ort888]

Advertising is also the reason that certain macnn posters have such terrible hateful attitudes toward women.

What shapes our ideal of what is considered attractive? Why is the ideal woman in 17th century different from the ideal woman in the 21st century? Why is the ideal woman in the Middle East so different from the ideal woman in Europe?

It's because we are bombarded from an early age by imagery that shapes our concepts of what beauty is. It's in corporate americas best interests to keep it's consumers feeling inadequate and unattractive. By constantly pushing the boundaries on what is considered to be the ideal look, they can keep making money.

This influences both women and men. By making men feel like they need to acquire a certain kind of woman, or need certain products to acquire such a woman... and by keeping women constantly trying to look like whatever the current standard is.

Why aren't you attracted to slightly overweight women? Because for your entire life every image of an ideal woman you have been exposed to has been a thin one with a perfect face and perfect everything. You are now afraid to deviate from the norm. Societal pressure has dictated that for you to be considered a success, you must attract the ideal woman. What is the ideal woman? The ideal woman is a constantly changing and practically unattainable goal.

That man in the car ad, with the smug look and the supermodel on his arm... isn't just influencing you to buy a car... it's telling you what success looks like. Success is the car, the woman. That perfect woman. Get the car, get the woman, get the smug look, and get everyone to like you. You may never buy that car, and you may never get that woman... but you remember what you saw. And you've been seeing it since you were a small child. Everywhere you look it's... be a success... acquire the product... acquire the perfect woman... this is what success is...

If every tv show, every magazine ad and every major motion picture we had watched from birth until now had featured women who were 30 lbs overweight and had bad skin, we would all be chasing after women who were 30 lbs overweight and have bad skin. And if you think this isn't true, you are lying to yourselves.

Who's brainwashed now?

[Doofy]

Dude, so you like fat birds, we get the picture. That's OK - it's your pecker. But there's no need to wrap it all up in some kind of mass-consumption psychology.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by ort888 

Package design is another form of advertising. When you are in the store and want some ice cream, and there are 10 different brands of chocolate chip, do you just get the cheapest one? Or do you skip it because the box looks crappy and you fear it might be of a lesser quality? What influences your decision at this point?

You're missing the point. I can't think of any time that an ad has influenced a buying decision of mine, so it's clear that I'm completely unaffected by advertising.

[The Final Dakar]

I also don't remember being born. Clearly, I have always existed.

[osiris]

I thought you were always the caretaker at the Overlook.

[The Final Dakar]

I've never actually watched that movie.

(sek may berate me for this)

[osiris]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

I've never actually watched that movie.

(sek may berate me for this)

And rightfully so.

[The Final Dakar]

It's Kubrick, too, isn't it?

[osiris]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

It's Kubrick, too, isn't it?

Yes, directed/written by Kubrick- original story by Stephen King.

[The Final Dakar]

I know its originally by Stephen King. That's kind of a strike against it.

[osiris]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

I know its originally by Stephen King. That's kind of a strike against it.

Well, Stephen King hated Kubrick's version, so you know it's good.

[The Final Dakar]

Well played.

[Phileas]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

I suspect that Phil's fell into his own BS trap a little. Easily done if you're in "sales" mode all day and you've got to hit those companies with the BS sales patter the moment the phone rings.

Except that the best advertising has absolutely nothing to do with being in sales mode. Actually, quite the opposite. You see, the best advertising is the advertising you don't notice.

My job is to manipulate the environment you live in in ways that make it more likely that you're choosing my client's product over another. 90% of what we do you will never consciously notice. And trust me when I say that I know as much about my business as you know about the music business.

[ort888]

Originally Posted by Phileas 

Except that the best advertising has absolutely nothing to do with being in sales mode. Actually, quite the opposite. You see, the best advertising is the advertising you don't notice.

My job is to manipulate the environment you live in in ways that make it more likely that you're choosing my client's product over another. 90% of what we do you will never consciously notice. And trust me when I say that I know as much about my business as you know about the music business.

So are you saying you know a lot about it or the opposite?

[The Final Dakar]

O GNOE HE DIDN!!1

(**** no caps)

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Phileas 

Except that the best advertising has absolutely nothing to do with being in sales mode. Actually, quite the opposite. You see, the best advertising is the advertising you don't notice.

My job is to manipulate the environment you live in in ways that make it more likely that you're choosing my client's product over another. 90% of what we do you will never consciously notice.

Dude, I get my soap from a thousand miles away. Do you really think that manipulating which shelf the main brand soaps sit on at the local supermarket or a bit of product placement has any bearing on me?

It's time for you to accept that there's people out there who you just can't touch, in the same way that there's people out there I can't. You can get most, but you'll never get all. Such is the nature of things.

[Shaddim]

Soap is a very personal thing, IMO. I've used Chandrika for decades and I won't switch to anything else.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

Soap is a very personal thing, IMO. I've used Chandrika for decades and I won't switch to anything else.

But I do that with everything.
Last plank I had was from Paris. One before that, Las Vegas.

Like your fireplace surround. Did Phil's subliminal advertising cause you to buy that?

[Laminar]

But what I'm saying is that because I can't think of a time that advertising has influenced a purchase decision, I surely haven't been affected at all.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

But what I'm saying is that because I can't think of a time that advertising has influenced a purchase decision, I surely haven't been affected at all.

What is more likely is that the advertising was so well crafted that you were not aware that you were being swayed by it. That's actually the pinnacle of the art of advertising; leading you to make a decision without knowing you're being led. It works quite well.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

But I do that with everything.
Last plank I had was from Paris. One before that, Las Vegas.

Like your fireplace surround. Did Phil's subliminal advertising cause you to buy that?

One of my best friends is a prominent local artist, and he twisted my arm until I agreed. However, I'll never tell how much I spent, I'm sure it would shock most people here. I'll put it this way, I basically employed him, exclusively, for 6 months.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

What is more likely is that the advertising was so well crafted that you were not aware that you were being swayed by it. That's actually the pinnacle of the art of advertising; leading you to make a decision without knowing you're being led. It works quite well.

Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooohhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

One of my best friends is a prominent local artist, and he twisted my arm until I agreed. However, I'll never tell how much I spent, I'm sure it would shock most people here. I'll put it this way, I basically employed him, exclusively, for 6 months.

So which "so well crafted that you can't remember it" advertising was it that made you do that?

[mattyb]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Wouldn't turfing up in a Gemballa Avalanche be more impressive? Or even just a letter saying "you are all peasants and unfit to be in my presence"?

Shows what a prole I am, I had to Google "Gemballa Avalanche". I have a rich uncle and always felt that his method of turning up in a helicopter was the best.

To the marketing men and women of the MacNN forums Lounge. I, mattyb, am your ideal target. I buy stuff at pos (iirc, thats point of sale in marketing speak), adverts in the press and TV usually make me take a look when in a shop, coupons usually work, I respond to opinion and marketing polls (I once got a large supply of beer for testing a black coloured lager that afaik never came to market).

I may not be the most loyal consumer, I change water, detergent and other products regularly, but if a scantily dressed beautiful women poses with your product saying 'Goo goo gaa gaa' then I'll probably buy it.

[shifuimam]

I remember one specific time being consciously influenced by advertising - I saw a commercial on TV for a Conair hairdryer that conveniently retracted the power cord into the handle, which then folded down to save space. I went out a few days later and bought one, and it was totally worth it.

Other than that, I've never seen an ad for something and responded with something like "OMG MUST HAVE NOW" or anything...but I also don't see many ads these days. I don't watch TV, and I use AdBlock in Firefox.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

and I use AdBlock in Firefox.

HOW DARE YOU allcaps

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

I don't have a TV. I don't take a newspaper. I don't listen to the radio. I don't go into stores (have a P.A. who does that for me). I don't see billboards (too busy looking at my speedo). How exactly do you think you're reaching me?

You wear a speedo?

[Spheric Harlot]

And nothing else.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

HOW DARE YOU allcaps

wtf? Doesn't everyone?

[Face Ache]

Advertising doesn't work on me at all because I think different. If I want a product I'll usually let my fingers do the walking, even when it absolutely, positively has to be there overnight. Reach out and touch someone, I say. Why? Because I'm worth it.

Ignore advertising, and be all you can be. Just do it. Where do you want to go today?

[CharlesS]

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

wtf? Doesn't everyone?

Fsck no! It's morally wrong, don't ya know?! You're gypping a site out of potential ad revenue every time you block an ad. Bastard.

[adamfishercox]

It depends on what "influenced" means. Undoubtedly, I am more likely to buy an advertised brand over one that isn't, but only because I know the name. The actual content of the ad isn't likely to make me buy it, and I'm very wary of any claims that are made in ads (e.g. BlackBerry Storm: "tons of apps.")

If you're trying to get my business, get your name out in front of me, and then secondly make a good product so that when I research myself I'll actually get it.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

Fsck no! It's morally wrong, don't ya know?! You're gypping a site out of potential ad revenue every time you block an ad. Bastard.

Oh, that sucks. I almost care. This is me almost caring.