[Doc HM]

Over in the apps forum MacinPink was troubled that Google were storing his search history when he was logged into his google account.

http://forums.macnn.com/82/applicati...owser-trouble/

while today in the UK a massive file sharing site owner was let off scot free. I'm sure that many many people on here (and all over) have at some time downloaded music of video, even if, like most people, they have eventually realised that it's better, and more moral, to do the right thing and pay for content.

However the two items did get me thinking. Already google is storing massive amounts of data on users search habits while governments are going to great lengths to store peoples IP addresses and data on their web habits. I can easily imaging a time (probably not too many years hence when available computing power makes backward enforcement of net behaviour entirely feasible. It's not a great stretch to imagine people twenty years from now getting letters (or probably emails) detailing all the illegal activity they carried out two decades ago and asking for payment.

I'm probably being a little paranoid but the way information is permeating our world I;m sure its going to come back and bite us in only a short time. The usual response to enforcing of criminal activity that happens in private is the middle england standby "If you haven't done anything wrong, you have nothing to fear. However I fear that in a total information age, everyone will have done something wrong and we all have plenty to fear.

[Brien]

If they really did "backwards enforcement" and go after anyone who's ever pirated anything, 'they' would end up suing a good 90% of the world.

[Oneota]

Then there's the whole Statute of Limitations thing.

[Dork.]

Originally Posted by Oneota 

Then there's the whole Statute of Limitations thing.

Which is quite easy to get around, since murder has so statute of limitations.
Terrorists murder people, and file sharing funds terrorism (or so I've been told).

[Doc HM]

Originally Posted by Oneota 

Then there's the whole Statute of Limitations thing.

Is there a statute of limitations on theft (as if were). Not in the UK. We don't have a statute of limitations on any criminal offence as far as I know.

[Doc HM]

Originally Posted by Brien 

If they really did "backwards enforcement" and go after anyone who's ever pirated anything, 'they' would end up suing a good 90% of the world.

Yup. And your point against is?

I look at it as a sort of digital criminality. Up until now the purpose of criminal law has been to disincentivse criminals. The police have always known that they can't catch everyone, just make it not worth most people while to offend. There will always be a hard core of offenders, who end up in jail, or get away with it in some cases. This is "analogue crime" the edges of who is a criminal and who isn't are somewhat blurred.

Modern technology makes some crimes 100% enforceable, turning everyone into a criminal. This is "digital crime" You are either guilty or not guilty. And everyone is guilty of something at some point. Speeding is an example. Within 10 years it will be impossible to speed, anywhere. Cameras will track you between destinations, apply an average speed and bingo! I don't think the government have a problem with having a population that is 100% criminalised as long as they pay their fines.

[Dork.]

Originally Posted by Doc HM 

Modern technology makes some crimes 100% enforceable, turning everyone into a criminal. This is "digital crime" You are either guilty or not guilty. And everyone is guilty of something at some point. Speeding is an example. Within 10 years it will be impossible to speed, anywhere. Cameras will track you between destinations, apply an average speed and bingo! I don't think the government have a problem with having a population that is 100% criminalised as long as they pay their fines.

Except that there are two things that people, in general, do not trust: technology and government. Especially when it comes to speeding, which everyone does all the time.

Here in New York State, I-90 is a toll road, and part of the New York State Thruway. I have a short commute on I-90 to get to work. I use EZ-Pass, one of those RF-transponder thingies to pay my toll. Every time I get on or off the Thruway, the time of the event is recorded. I drive fast. It is a trivial algebra problem to prove that I exceed the speed limit every time I go to or come back from work.

But I've never received a ticket in the mail, nor do I expect to. This is because the moment I do, I will cancel the EZ-Pass, and the Thruway Authority knows this. I give them consistent toll revenue, but once they hand my info over to the state troopers (or allow their info to get subpoenaed), they lose my revenue for good. (Plus, folks who are bad at math may contest these tickets, gumming up the local courts, and probably costing them more in revenue than they would take in with fines.) Money talks....

[downinflames68]

Originally Posted by Doc HM 

Speeding is an example. Within 10 years it will be impossible to speed, anywhere. Cameras will track you between destinations, apply an average speed and bingo! I don't think the government have a problem with having a population that is 100% criminalised as long as they pay their fines.

Speed cameras are on their way out. People are vandalizing them at an alarming rate, and people are getting pissed that they aren't owned by the government, nor do they have to be calibrated. Also, nobody can tell who is driving, so there's that as well.

[Doc HM]

Originally Posted by Dork. 

Except that there are two things that people, in general, do not trust: technology and government. Especially when it comes to speeding, which everyone does all the time.

And yet here we are, with both technology AND government. While you may say now that you would cancel your EZ pass, that's just one route to work. What if you end up having NO route to work that doesn't involve the government seeing your speed. In the UK the police are already switching from speed cameras, which are fairly ineffective to average speed cameras, which are far harder to circumvent. Already the M4 has sets of them. Added to these are cctv cameras and ANPR cameras which are currently only on police cars but will probably spread to other traffic agency cars, then to busses and any council/govt vehicle. Within 10 years the UK government will be able to plot where you went and at what speed 100% of the time.

People are generally very short sighted. Most people when confronted with this invasive policing WILL fall back on the nothing to hide, nothing to fear defence. They really do forget that we ALL have something to hide.

Within a shortish space of time I guarantee that people will have to budget for speeding and other "trivial" fines on a monthly basis along with their mortgage etc as the monthly fine statement pops through the postbox.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by downinflames68 

Speed cameras are on their way out. People are vandalizing them at an alarming rate, and people are getting pissed that they aren't owned by the government, nor do they have to be calibrated. Also, nobody can tell who is driving, so there's that as well.

Speed cameras are great! Wait until nobody's looking, pull out a ladder, and you've got yourself a hot new Nikon DSLR.

[downinflames68]

They really use Nikon DSLRs?

[imitchellg5]

I don't know about all of them, but the ones in Washington State are D90s!

[TheoCryst]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

I don't know about all of them, but the ones in Washington State are D90s!

Sweet, guess who's getting a new D90 this weekend?

[moonmonkey]

Originally Posted by Doc HM 

Is there a statute of limitations on theft (as if were). Not in the UK. We don't have a statute of limitations on any criminal offence as far as I know.

Good, The Statute of limitations is one of the most stupid things conceivable.