[Doofy]

All must be destroyed, as per terms of scheme. Not auctioned off on eBay. Not given to Doof for parts for his XJ (there's three in that lower pic for starters). Destroyed. How green is that?

How many petrol heads would love to fix up that MR2 mk2 at the lower left? Or that BMW 3 at the lower right?
Criminal.

[Big Mac]

Yeah, really disgusting. They even had dealers pour some sort of chemical into the engine to destroy it completely.

[sek929]

I would love that MR2...

[ghporter]

The ENGINES already HAVE BEEN destroyed. That was all that "had to be done." Now the remainder can indeed be sold for parts or recycled. Either way, it's tens of thousands of cars NOT on the road, and most of them no longer spewing way higher levels of crap into the air than the cars that replaced them.

The program specified that only engines need be destroyed-the polluting, gas-guzzling part of the car. Now what's left is available for salvage-though as I understand it what's left cannot be titled. So it's all parts that roll around. Still, how many MR2 lovers would drool over getting an intact stack of parts to fix up the beaten up MR2 they have been restoring?

[jokell82]

By "yer", I assume you mean Great Britain?
Now, where did you say you left the car? The £28m backlog of perfectly driveable vehicles waiting to be SCRAPPED | Mail Online

(Not that I think the US version would be any better)

[turtle777]

Our children are going to look back and say: what f*cking morons, what a waste of resources and money.



-t

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

The ENGINES already HAVE BEEN destroyed. That was all that "had to be done." Now the remainder can indeed be sold for parts or recycled. Either way, it's tens of thousands of cars NOT on the road, and most of them no longer spewing way higher levels of crap into the air than the cars that replaced them.

unfortunately, it would be more environmentally friendly to run most of those jalopies for another ten years or so, relative to the emissions, mining, and chemical waste incurred by building new ones that then "conserve" resources.

Cash for Clunkers, and its predecessor here in Germany, are designed solely to give the auto industry a short-term boost. They're economic, not environmental, measures.

The automobile market pretty much collapsed here, after the program ran out.

Plus, there's a total shortage of cheap "beginners'" cars, while people who'd previously managed to make a living dealing in used parts (like my mech) are unable to sell their stock, since a) there's fewer old cars on the roads, and b) those taken off the road are being parted out for the remaining ones. The used spares market just broke down.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

The ENGINES already HAVE BEEN destroyed. That was all that "had to be done." Now the remainder can indeed be sold for parts or recycled.

But it's engine parts that I need for my XJ.

Originally Posted by ghporter 

Either way, it's tens of thousands of cars NOT on the road, and most of them no longer spewing way higher levels of crap into the air than the cars that replaced them.

Completely offset, of course, by the energy requirements to build those new cars in the first place.

[downinflames68]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

The ENGINES already HAVE BEEN destroyed. That was all that "had to be done." Now the remainder can indeed be sold for parts or recycled. Either way, it's tens of thousands of cars NOT on the road, and most of them no longer spewing way higher levels of crap into the air than the cars that replaced them.

The program specified that only engines need be destroyed-the polluting, gas-guzzling part of the car. Now what's left is available for salvage-though as I understand it what's left cannot be titled. So it's all parts that roll around. Still, how many MR2 lovers would drool over getting an intact stack of parts to fix up the beaten up MR2 they have been restoring?

BULLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLSHIT.

Polluting? Most of those cars are from the 90s, and have catalytic convertors. HARDLY smog producing machines. How green is this? Each new car PRODUCES a metric ****ton of pollution in manufacturing, refining, development, testing, assembly, and shipping.

YouTube - Hybrid and SUVs are both crap for our planet

PS: ONE HUNDRED AND SEVENTY TWO SVXS WERE DESTROYED.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by downinflames68 

PS: ONE HUNDRED AND SEVENTY TWO SVXS WERE DESTROYED.

So at least there's some upside to it all.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Completely offset, of course, by the energy requirements to build those new cars in the first place.

note, though, that those cars would be built eventually, anyway, as these old cars are replaced. So it becomes a question of how many resources these new cars save over the time it would have taken until the old car was junked anyways.

So it's not quite so simple.

[Doofy]

Two Landy Discos at the top right of that lower pic. Looks like a mk1 and mk2.
Who in their right mind is mental enough to swap a Disco for £2,000 off a new car? You'd get way more than that if you sold it to a scrappie (or one of the guys with a stand at the Old Sodbury sorties) for parts.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

So it's not quite so simple.

Nothing ever is.
But like you said above, this is an economic program, not environmental.

[olePigeon]

As I learned from Top Gear (yeah, I know, not totally scientific) that with most relatively modern cars it's how you drive, not what you drive. If you're an aggressive driver, a BMW can get better gas mileage than a Prius.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Two Landy Discos at the top right of that lower pic. Looks like a mk1 and mk2.
Who in their right mind is mental enough to swap a Disco for £2,000 off a new car? You'd get way more than that if you sold it to a scrappie (or one of the guys with a stand at the Old Sodbury sorties) for parts.

A new Land Rover would qualify for the Cash for Clunkers if manufacturing date wasn't a factor.

[angelmb]

Besides the microcar, there are some fine looking cars there, S40, 9-5, Freelander, classic JEEPs, two MB A-Class, one even with its distinctive sunroof… that's like killing some CRT iMacs just for 20 bucks. Or the Renault Kangoo, if functional, why would you want to get rid of it?.

[sek929]

I'd like to add that an MR2 uses a Toyota 4-banger and would probably get 30MPG until the day it burst into flames.

[is not]

how many sub 140gCO2/km cars are in the USA nowadays?

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Our children are going to look back and say: what f*cking morons, what a waste of resources and money ...

... through their gas masks while they're applying SPF 100 sunscreen.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

note, though, that those cars would be built eventually, anyway, as these old cars are replaced.

Keeping those auto workers employed.

[The Final Dakar]

They should just have a massive monster truck show.

[imitchellg5]

I drive a mk2 MR2 all the time... I can't believe that anyone would want to scrap that (the lowest MPG I see is about 32). And what the heck is with that E-class estate? That's a 2001 or 2002 if I'm not mistaken. And it looks like a MkIV GTI on the bottom left poking out? I thought there was a classic Impreza turbo, but I don't see a hood scoop... I spot 2 2001-ish A4 there as well. And of course all those classic BMWs (Is that an old 5-series in the top right?). Man. Why wouldn't they have at least sold them privately and got quite a bit more money?

EDIT: How are we sure that these are just prop cars from Top Gear?

[turtle777]

Bottom line: people are idiots. They take a measly government subsidy over selling their cars for more on the open market.

Darn idiots don't deserve better.

-t

[seanc]

Agreed, I was at the Marshalls Group in Cambridge the other week, my friend works there.

We drove past a Honda Civic, exactly the same as mine, probably there as part of the scrappage scheme. Probably nothing wrong with it, I could use so many parts from it.

[is not]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

And what the heck is with that E-class estate? That's a 2001 or 2002 if I'm not mistaken.

The silver close to the Astra estate? that is a C-Class

[Shaddim]

Is that an Alfa in the upper-left?

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Bottom line: people are idiots. They take a measly government subsidy over selling their cars for more on the open market.

Darn idiots don't deserve better.

-t

in which case there's nothing for anyone to complain about.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

in which case there's nothing for anyone to complain about.

Other than that it hurts the environment, and the economy in general ?

-t

[PB2K]

Hmm well, it doesn't look much different than a storage for new cars at the harbor.



I think the program is quite good, you need to get rid of these old polluting cars (of course they look sellable, they would last another 10 years) . What's wrong is that most people replace the clunker for a truck that doesn't run any environment-friendlier.

I drive a car from 1993 that drives 1liter : 10km, I do understand that's a bad performance. I just cant afford a new Aygo that does 1:22 and is currently roadtax free. If the government would offer me help with the purchase I would take it.

however, rethinking that..how many times would the government buy my old cars to replace it with a newer one ? That doesn't make sense. Let's assume my new aygo becomes environmentally obsolete in the next 5 years because of advanced hybrids/electrocars..this way (replacing) the impact on the environment will be even bigger. This seems too much as just a way to sell 'newer' but unfriendly cars.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by is not 

The silver close to the Astra estate? that is a C-Class

Oh you're right. But around that year I believe.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Other than that it hurts the environment,

So, *now* you're an environmentalist?

and the economy in general ?

How does buying new cars hurt the economy?

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

So, *now* you're an environmentalist?

If you say so *shrug*

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

How does buying new cars hurt the economy?

You'll figure it out.

-t

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

You'll figure it out.

It seems to me that buying new cars is *good* for the economy. The only thing I can see being hurt here is the used car market, which employs far less people and would seem to contribute very little to the economy. There's the tax dollars spent purchasing the cars, but our governments are so deep in debt, I can image how this could make things any worse.

I'm fairly certain you'll have to explain it to me.

[imitchellg5]

I don't know if this is what turtle is referring to, but most people don't write a check for a brand new car. They finance it. So all of these people who might not have a job next year have a new payment to look forward to.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

It seems to me that buying new cars is *good* for the economy.

I'm fairly certain you'll have to explain it to me.

It hurts the economy because it's obama's decision, and we all know what that means.

What happened here was that the auto market completely collapsed after the German equivalent program ran out.

[ort888]

Well, our auto market was already collapsed...

[hyteckit]

Capitalism, inherently wasteful.

Do the socialist thing and donate it to doofy-land.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

Capitalism, inherently wasteful.

Do the socialist thing and donate it to doofy-land.

You do realize it was government subsidizing that caused all this waste, right?

The more capitalistic thing to do would have been to let all the car manufacturers die, and then all these cars would still be on the road (Assuming their drivers didn't become unemployed former car manufacturer employees)

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

then all these cars would still be on the road (Assuming their drivers didn't become unemployed former car manufacturer employees)

or unemployed former car-manufacturer subcontractors'/dependents' employees.

The choice was subsidies or tens (probably hundreds) of thousands of additional unemployed to deal with.

[The Final Dakar]

Yes, I know.

[macaddict0001]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

You do realize it was government subsidizing that caused all this waste, right?

The more capitalistic thing to do would have been to let all the car manufacturers die, and then all these cars would still be on the road (Assuming their drivers didn't become unemployed former car manufacturer employees)

I think the only company that would have died if left to its own devices is Chrysler. Hardly all. Besides who would sell us cars then?

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

You do realize it was government subsidizing that caused all this waste, right?

The more capitalistic thing to do would have been to let all the car manufacturers die, and then all these cars would still be on the road (Assuming their drivers didn't become unemployed former car manufacturer employees)

Do subsidies cause waste? Yeah. But it's still capitalism. Just regulated.

Capitalism is inherently wasteful. It encourages you to consume more than you need and to want the latest and greatest.

Subsidies are to encourage more production and/or consumption.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

So at least there's some upside to it all.

I'm dyin' over here!

[ghporter]

Seems I didn't quite parse the original post effectively, and that Doof was referring to something other than the US "cash for clunkers" program. Or did I get that wrong too...?

[ebuddy]

You don't become "too big to fail" without the help of the government.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

Seems I didn't quite parse the original post effectively, and that Doof was referring to something other than the US "cash for clunkers" program. Or did I get that wrong too...?

I was referring to the global "cash for clunkers" program. Everywhere. I simply used the US term because, well, there's more of you colonials here than anyone else.

[PB2K]

i rather crash my car in a rallye because it's more fun and you can win a prize