[starman]

I like Comcast, but for the same price of the 20/4 I get from them I can get 25/25 from Verizon. For $10 more I can get 35/35.

Yeah, that's right. 35/35.

I'm very tempted, and I've been reading nothing but glowing reviews on dslreports, with the only consistency being billing issues.

They also don't have the silly bandwidth cap that Comcast does, nor do they throttle you.

Granted, I'm nowhere NEAR the cap, and I don't download much, but I do a lot of Skype/iChat/video communication and media uploading, so the higher speeds will help.

And a static IP to boot.

Thoughts?

[Gankdawg]

All I can say is I wish I had that option. Only have one choice where I live, DSL. I get up to 10Mb down (with 768Kb up) for $55 + taxes/fees a month.

[nonhuman]

If you can get it, I say go for it. I really wish we could get FiOS, but our options are Comcast Cable, RCN Cable, or Verizon DSL for now (we have RCN Cable because we got tired of being screwed around by Comcast).

[jokell82]

Why would you need to be convinced? Comcast sucks and Verizon will give you better speeds at the same price.

I'm on the 25/25 plan with Verizon and I love it.

[Lint Police]

Wish I could get it here. Stuck with Charter Communications. *gag*

[BadKosh]

Verizon's customer support and late installation SUCK.

[olePigeon]

FIOS is probably the best option for broadband. The first thing you'll notice is that you actually get the advertised speed. Unlike Comcast, you're getting your own line, so you don't have to worry about peak hour usage and all the crap.

Also, unlike Comcast, Verizon isn't packet shaping and interfering with your data. You'll notice a huge increase in performance from services like bit torrent, VOIP, and streaming video.

Verizon's customer service is pretty bad, but nothing like Comcast. Comcast received the Golden Poo award for worst company of 2009; they beat out AIG and Merrill Lynch for that award. I think the tipping point was that Comcast was forced to disassociate their corporation with their services. They changed the name to Xfinity to avoid complaints associated with the company.

I'd love to get FIOS, but I'm stuck with U-Verse. U-Verse is a more expensive, crappier version of FIOS, but at least it's better than Comcast. Actually, it's not really fiber to the home, it's fiber to the node, then they run copper to the home. It's cheaper for AT&T to install and maintain, so naturally they charge more money for it.

[Mrjinglesusa]

If you need to be "sold" on FIOS, you don't deserve FIOS.

Seriously, GET IT. You won't be disappointed. And get FIOS TV while you are at it. Their HD channels are plentiful and GORGEOUS.

[starman]

See, here's the thing with me: I don't like change. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".

The problem is that the more content I create, the more limited I realize my Comcast line is. Couple that with the long ping times (233ms to WoW?), crappy Skype connections (not my computers for sure), and bad cable modems I have to lease from Comcast, I'm leaning towards getting FiOS.

Oh, another thing: I upgraded my Comcast last week and my new speeds haven't kicked in. Meh. Comcast is just that much closer to getting the boot.

As far as the TV goes, I have a TiVo series 3 which works with FiOS, but I had SUCH a problem with the cable cards that I'm not sure I want to go through that mess again until I see the line is stable.

[nonhuman]

The kicker for me was when Comcast bumped up the cost of my internet because even though they tell you you're only getting internet they actually force you to also buy cable tv service while claiming you don't have tv service.

Seriously, if you get Comcast internet, just hook it up to your TV and you'll get 50-ish channels of limited basic cable. However on your bill it specifically says you have an internet-only account. ****ers.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by starman 

As far as the TV goes, I have a TiVo series 3 which works with FiOS, but I had SUCH a problem with the cable cards that I'm not sure I want to go through that mess again until I see the line is stable.

It's fiber. It either works or it doesn't. It's not like cable or DSL.

[starman]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

It's fiber. It either works or it doesn't. It's not like cable or DSL.

But the card activation was the problem, not the connection.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

The kicker for me was when Comcast bumped up the cost of my internet because even though they tell you you're only getting internet they actually force you to also buy cable tv service while claiming you don't have tv service.

Seriously, if you get Comcast internet, just hook it up to your TV and you'll get 50-ish channels of limited basic cable. However on your bill it specifically says you have an internet-only account. ****ers.

That's all cable internet providers (as far as I know). They have to activate the line coming in, which turns on analog cable. That's how it was when I had Cox cable as well.

[Lint Police]

Just be happy your ISP didn't brick your brand new SB6120 Cable Modem with a firmware update. Charter did that a week ago and they only think they know the issue is related to the CMTS Software.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

so you don't have to worry about peak hour usage and all the crap.

Of course you do, FIOS is massively oversubscibed. You can't get 25Mbps dedicated for $50/mo!

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

That's all cable internet providers (as far as I know). They have to activate the line coming in, which turns on analog cable. That's how it was when I had Cox cable as well.

It's all analog cable providers. RCN, whom we currently use, is all digital and actually provides internet-only connections at reasonable internet-only prices.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

It's all analog cable providers. RCN, whom we currently use, is all digital and actually provides internet-only connections at reasonable internet-only prices.

I wasn't charged for TV when I had Cox, even though they had to turn the line on. If Comcast does that it just proves, again, how crappy of a company they are.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by mduell 

Of course you do...

No you don't.

Originally Posted by mduell 

You can't get 25Mbps dedicated for $50/mo!

Yes you can.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

I wasn't charged for TV when I had Cox, even though they had to turn the line on. If Comcast does that it just proves, again, how crappy of a company they are.

Good to know. I'm perfectly happy to believe that Comcast is especially crappy in this regard.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

The kicker for me was when Comcast bumped up the cost of my internet because even though they tell you you're only getting internet they actually force you to also buy cable tv service while claiming you don't have tv service.

Not any more. They're forcing everyone to "upgrade" to their digital cable boxes and terminating their analog TV service. Now they simply overcharge for it.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

Not any more. They're forcing everyone to "upgrade" to their digital cable boxes and terminating their analog TV service. Now they simply overcharge for it.

Interesting. They were doing to this to me a month ago, after they switched us over to 'xfinity'.

Doesn't matter now. We're paying less money for the same theoretical bandwidth from RCN with no caps, limits, or hidden fees.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

Yes you can.

Where?

Not from Verizon residential; their TOS clearly states: "The speed of the Service will vary based on network ... congestion"

[Rumor]

I wish I could get FiOS. I have two options: Comcast and AT&T. Comcast is expensive but much faster than AT&T. The phone lines in my house are old, and we could only get 3mbps down (though always saw >1). I can't even get U-Verse, which I would happily switch to if available.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by mduell 

Not from Verizon residential; their TOS clearly states: "The speed of the Service will vary based on network ... congestion"

That is a standard TOS, you'll read that even for a T line. You need to get away from the whole cable ideology. FIOS isn't shared.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

That is a standard TOS, you'll read that even for a T line. You need to get away from the whole cable ideology. FIOS isn't shared.

I'm not talking about cable-style neighborhood aggregation. I'm aware of the difference in network architectures between cable/DSL/FiOS.

FiOS is massively oversubscribed, just like DSL and cable; the bandwidth is not dedicated. They do not have 25Mbps of peering at the CO for every 25Mbps FiOS customer.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by mduell 

FiOS is massively oversubscribed, just like DSL and cable; the bandwidth is not dedicated. They do not have 25Mbps of peering at the CO for every 25Mbps FiOS customer.

FiOS isn't aggregated like cable. A fiber connection is made between the CO optical line terminal, to an optical splitter (with a maximum of 32 subscribers per splitter), then to the home. GPON is 2.4 Gbps, that means even if all 32 subscribers are using 100% of the connection with a 32/32 line, they'll still have 48 Mbps each left over for other services (presumable TV and phone.)

[mduell]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

FiOS isn't aggregated like cable. A fiber connection is made between the CO optical line terminal, to an optical splitter (with a maximum of 32 subscribers per splitter), then to the home. GPON is 2.4 Gbps, that means even if all 32 subscribers are using 100% of the connection with a 32/32 line, they'll still have 48 Mbps each left over for other services (presumable TV and phone.)

I know you get your bandwidth to the CO; I said that. Upstream of the CO they don't have 32Mbps dedicated to you so you'll still be impacted by "peak hour usage and all the crap."

[starman]

I think before spouting all this BS about how you don't get the advertised bandwidth, you should check the reports on dslreports.com where EVERYONE is getting their advertised bandwidth.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by mduell 

I know you get your bandwidth to the CO; I said that. Upstream of the CO they don't have 32Mbps dedicated to you so you'll still be impacted by "peak hour usage and all the crap."

Yes, you do. GPON back to the CO is still 1.2 Gbps. If all 32 people are using 100% of their bandwidth (i.e. they're uploading via BitTorrent), they'd still have have about 2 Mbps to spare. That is more than enough to handle VOIP upstream, and digital TV doesn't use the upstream much, if at all.

You get the full 35/35.

[indigoimac]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

Yes, you do. GPON back to the CO is still 1.2 Gbps. If all 32 people are using 100% of their bandwidth (i.e. they're uploading via BitTorrent), they'd still have have about 2 Mbps to spare. That is more than enough to handle VOIP upstream, and digital TV doesn't use the upstream much, if at all.

You get the full 35/35.

I think he is addressing after that point at the CO VZ does not maintain 35mbps per subscriber... which may very well be true, but the average subscriber will never notice and VZ will upgrade it as needed. So, VZ's backbone connection... which depending on where you live, density of commercial subscribers, etc, could very well be massive. It is my understanding that they are not skimping on any aspect of this rollout.

I have had FiOS for 2 years now started at 10/2 then 25/15 now 25/25 with FiOS TV and Digital Voice. Every time I have needed the bandwidth it has been there... period. We're talking 3+MBps from fast download servers any time you want. It is ridiculous for a consumer -- the only thing I have experienced that is even close is my university's connection which will swamp 100mb ethernet easily from outside web sources.

Granted, I maintain Comcast at another residence and while I object to them as a matter of principle because they should not limit bandwidth consumption, etc., I have for the most part gotten advertised speeds. 16/2. But it does often go down under heavy load, it could be the modem, outdated wiring to the street, or any number of issues, but to put it bluntly the technology just does not compare. DOCSIS 3 does not appear to be addressing low upload speeds either. And before someone says it -- it's not the router, just trust me on that.

Installation:
Verizon:
Yes, the installer was late for the initial install, but he was competent, well organized, and didn't make a mess (wore shoe covers when he was inside). About a year later when TV service was available the installer was on time and called me well in advance to give me a heads up he was coming. He too was competent and knew what he was doing.

Also, later on I decided against using the provided router as the main connection point and installed an airport extreme with ethernet run to the ONT. This has improved responsiveness and obviously the wireless is much better. This required a phone call to VZ FiOS Tech Support who knew exactly what I wanted to do and did it. There is a special FiOS Support number -- I have never had an issue with them.

As far as over-subscription, the area served by the gpon, one street over, has had a high adoption rate. Looking at the connections made at the poles I'd say we're in the 30% range within roughly 2 years.

Comcast:
Ever had an install at 9pm when they were supposed to be there before 12pm? Yup, I did.
Ever have a phone rep think your city is in a different state that does not have a city of the same name? Yup, good job Comcast. Pittsburgh is not in New Jersey.

Most of the time though they have been ok, and I have given them a hard time on a number of occasions and they were mostly knowledgeable.

The only thing I miss from Comcast is the number of OnDemand titles that are not either pay or are from premium subscriptions -- this is minor and easily addressed with a dvr if one desires though.



Yes, that's full, or close to, 25/25 -- their throttling has been spot on, 10/2, 25/15 at every step.

Anyone feel free to PM me about anything FiOS related -- I have spent way too much time either researching it or tweaking it here at home, so I know, or at least think I know, all the ins and outs at this point.

[mduell]

Benchmarks in the wee hours of the night, how useful.

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

Yes, you do. GPON back to the CO is still 1.2 Gbps. If all 32 people are using 100% of their bandwidth (i.e. they're uploading via BitTorrent), they'd still have have about 2 Mbps to spare. That is more than enough to handle VOIP upstream, and digital TV doesn't use the upstream much, if at all.

You get the full 35/35.

I am not talking about between the CO and your house. I have never been talking about between the CO and your house. Why do you keep trying to drag us back to the line between the CO and you house?

Oh right, because your position falls apart upstream of the CO.

[indigoimac]

Good god you are stubborn. What is your suggestion then for consumer grade broadband at a sub 60$ / month price tag? I would love to know. It may not be a true dedicated 25/25 line all the way to some oc(insert integer here) backbone. Does it honestly matter at this price point? We're not running a hosting company -- though I know someone who does on 2 commercial 25/25 fios lines w. no problems.

I'm not paying dedicated pricing, nor is there any need to for most applications. Today, what are the chances that everyone hosted by a CO is going to be maxing out their connection all the time, if ever? It is the same bet cable hedges on a street by street basis, but on a larger scale as the crunch occurs at the CO and not more locally. This is what makes both services economical, though in time more prone to congestion, at this time though, with VZ's current speed limits, I just don't see it being an issue.

Also, not wee hours of the night GMT-4 so it was 11:22pm -- late, but certainly not-not prime time. It will bench 25/25 within 2-3mbps at every hour of the day, everyday, without fail. And it will download and upload sustained at that speed without fail to appropriately equipped servers.