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Rejection Notices.
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May 31, 2010, 07:18 PM
 
OK, so what's the best way anyone here's found to deal with rejection notices for things? I just found out that for some reason my portfolio applying for the graphic design program at a local school, "didn't mean't meet the requirements." Which is a bit of a piss off because I actually remember looking their their graduates portfolios and thinking, "Wow some of this stuff looks lousy, some is great but some is just not that good, I shouldn't have any trouble getting in." Not to say I didn't put a lot of effort into the course, I did. In fact I had one friend who went through their creative communications program tell me, "Don't worry you'll have no problem getting in, I've seen your stuff."

Anyway, so I have a friend coming over, and we're gonna hang out, and then I've got Church tonight, where ironically we'll be using a bunch of stuff I've drawn.

In the end it just feels really embarrassing. And it's another year before I could even apply again which, I confess now I don't want to do. I think I'm going to look at applying to a few schools out of Province.
     
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May 31, 2010, 07:31 PM
 
Edit: Never mind.
     
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May 31, 2010, 07:35 PM
 
If the local school won't take you, it's their loss.
Go apply to other schools.
     
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May 31, 2010, 08:09 PM
 
Only marginally related:
Making Light: Slushkiller

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Jun 1, 2010, 03:10 AM
 
The premise of having to have ‘good enough’ work to enter school is ridiculous. If your sh|t doesn’t stink, what the fk do you need art school for?
     
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Jun 1, 2010, 04:49 AM
 
Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey View Post
Only marginally related:
Making Light: Slushkiller
That's really good.
     
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Jun 1, 2010, 06:12 AM
 
I rather suspect that this is nothing to do with quality of work... ...and everything to do with the full details of every fall-out with every organisation ever catalogued on the 'net in blog or forum form. Don't put your life on the 'net if you don't want it to come back and bite you in the ass, people!

Salty, me old fruit, I don't know why you need school anyway - your stuff's pretty good (well, except any attempt at humans). Just start freelancing right now.
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Jun 1, 2010, 03:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
I rather suspect that this is nothing to do with quality of work... ...and everything to do with the full details of every fall-out with every organisation ever catalogued on the 'net in blog or forum form. Don't put your life on the 'net if you don't want it to come back and bite you in the ass, people!
Agreed. The Facebook, Myspace, Twitter stuff is called social networking for a reason. Why the fook would I want my employer/educators to know anything about my social life, or my life in general.

Some HR idiot sees that you support curling team X and didn't like that they beat team Y in last years final. Bye bye job app.
     
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Jun 1, 2010, 04:25 PM
 
Get an appointment with their Dean of Admissions, or whoever has a similar position, to discuss on improvements you could make (word it like that; you're more likely to talk to them if you don't simply ask "what went wrong") If they refuse, then move on.
     
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Jun 1, 2010, 04:36 PM
 
Lets see your online portfolio Salty so we can see what theses schools are missing out on.
     
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Jun 1, 2010, 04:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
Lets see your online portfolio Salty so we can see what theses schools are missing out on.
Flickr link in his sig.
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Jun 1, 2010, 05:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by hayesk View Post
Get an appointment with their Dean of Admissions, or whoever has a similar position, to discuss on improvements you could make (word it like that; you're more likely to talk to them if you don't simply ask "what went wrong") If they refuse, then move on.
I'd do this. Ask for constructive criticism. Maybe show up with two large, well-dressed Sicilian fellows that you introduce as your personal lawyers.

Seriously though - you have talent, I wish I could draw or sketch like that. That school is effin nuts and it's their loss. Move on, you deserve better!
"Faster, faster! 'Till the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death." - HST
     
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Jun 1, 2010, 06:56 PM
 
off-topic professional advice.
( Last edited by andi*pandi; Jun 7, 2010 at 10:33 AM. )
     
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Jun 1, 2010, 07:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
Flickr link in his sig.
Hmm, not to bad but most of the pictures seem like it should have unicorns in them.
( Last edited by analogue SPRINKLES; Jun 2, 2010 at 02:50 AM. )
     
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Jun 1, 2010, 10:08 PM
 
Not trying to be personal, but if the work submitted is anything like the work shown on flickr then I too would have recommend a fail on the entrance exam.

Schools look for raw talent and and innovation, the work Salty shows is made up of one style only - and not a style that's particularly innovative or interesting.
     
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Jun 1, 2010, 11:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by Phileas View Post
Not trying to be personal, but if the work submitted is anything like the work shown on flickr then I too would have recommend a fail on the entrance exam.

Schools look for raw talent and and innovation, the work Salty shows is made up of one style only - and not a style that's particularly innovative or interesting.
I was hoping my unicorn comment would give the same message without getting to blunt.

Anyway, I edited it for ya salty:

( Last edited by analogue SPRINKLES; Jun 2, 2010 at 01:23 AM. )
     
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Jun 2, 2010, 03:12 AM
 
This thread reminds me why I pursued a career in financial law.
     
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Jun 2, 2010, 09:40 AM
 
+
it reminds me that social networking is useless except for the fact that people will use it against you.
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Jun 2, 2010, 05:06 PM
 
Salty's work reminds me a lot of this persons work in a primitive form:
Blue Sky Graphic Design-Downloads

He has his own style and the technical skills but at the end it is still kitsch.
Kitsch - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
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Jun 2, 2010, 05:16 PM
 
The best thing in Salty's flicker stream is his avatar. The job of art school is to teach you how to think and how to translate those thoughts into a less superficial set of marks on paper. Generally this can't easily be learnt by yourself (though it is possible).
I would have thought Salty's work would have got him into a school at least. It could do with more variety and depth but that's what a good course would teach.

Apply to more places. Get in somewhere. Don't try to go freelance now, there are too many second and third rate artists clogging up the system. Use the time to learn, wait out the downturn and be better than most others when you finish.
     
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Jun 2, 2010, 06:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doc HM View Post
Don't try to go freelance now, there are too many second and third rate artists clogging up the system.
On the other hand, there's a shedload of companies (and bands) who can't afford first rate artists. Not to mention some governments:



Are you seriously suggesting that given the current quality of his work, Salty couldn't have come out with a logo like the above? (Remembering that it's £400,000 worth.)

@Salty: Get yourself out there and do it. Start from the bottom - pop on MySpace, network and do band logos for a couple hundred bucks a pop. Your future plan shouldn't be reliant on one dude on a school admissions board saying "yes". Doesn't work in the music biz, doesn't work in the business world, probably doesn't work in the art world.
Get out there. Do it. Make it real. Now.
( Last edited by Doofy; Jun 2, 2010 at 06:18 PM. )
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Jun 2, 2010, 06:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
On the other hand, there's a shedload of companies (and bands) who can't afford first rate artists. Not to mention some governments:



Are you seriously suggesting that given the current quality of his work, Salty couldn't have come out with a logo like the above? (Remembering that it's £400,000 worth.)
The £400,000 doesn't say anything about the quality of the work; that's merely the value of the contract.

A logo for a small neighborhood charity might be excellent, but you'd charge substantially less for one that will be used for a multi-million-dollar global advertising campaign spread across hundreds of thousands of products.

That doesn't automatically mean that it's not as good, or shouldn't be.

I have no idea what they were thinking with that logo, but the money argument isn't really a valid one in the advertising industry.
     
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Jun 2, 2010, 06:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
The £400,000 doesn't say anything about the quality of the work; that's merely the value of the contract.

A logo for a small neighborhood charity might be excellent, but you'd charge substantially less for one that will be used for a multi-million-dollar global advertising campaign spread across hundreds of thousands of products.

That doesn't automatically mean that it's not as good, or shouldn't be.

I have no idea what they were thinking with that logo, but the money argument isn't really a valid one in the advertising industry.
All I'm saying is, get out there and do it. Which you know, of course, Spher since you perform without asking an A&R man's permission. Same deal.

Five band logos at $50 a pop is $250 more than he's got now. And it's "five more" experience. You know what I'm saying.
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Jun 2, 2010, 06:40 PM
 
Oh absolutely.
     
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Jun 2, 2010, 11:48 PM
 
Superchic[k]en: I think you definitely ought to take Doofy's advice. At the end of the day, it's all just business... do work, get your name out there, make money, get some "hard" stuff for your resume (no matter how modest the work may be).

Just my 2 cent euro.
     
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Jun 3, 2010, 12:10 AM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
All I'm saying is, get out there and do it. Which you know, of course, Spher since you perform without asking an A&R man's permission. Same deal.

Five band logos at $50 a pop is $250 more than he's got now. And it's "five more" experience. You know what I'm saying.
You're right. I had to start my graphic/web carrier by doing a bunch of stuff for friends for almost free just to build my portfolio.

Most of Salty's work is a sketch photoshop filters on top of pictures of boys with added swooshy rainbows for effect.

None of that will sell you to anyone.

Make logos, posters, websites and use your skills to apply it to something real world and if that turns out well you should get in a school no problem.

Or you can pray. Up to you.

Was this drawing of yours inspired by the World Without Lawyers?



     
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Jun 3, 2010, 06:12 AM
 
that's an awful drawing.
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Jun 3, 2010, 10:50 AM
 
I should note that my current flickr stream is mostly stuff done for Church, hence the more consistent style and simple nature, the drawings are meant to be non distracting, but at the same time add to the worship experience, they're all custom made for songs, and they're each done pretty quickly (at most an hour and a half.)

This is a link to the grad portfolio for their 09 class
OH09_splash

Look at this one, you can't tell me that I'm not already better than this guy...
RRC Graphic Design 2nd year David Alleyn

Anyway, I was emo for about, just over a full 24 hours. Then I happen to have a sorta coffee date, with another Red River Reject, and it was actually amazingly great, turns out now he's into software development, and I swear might be the next Steve Jobs, and uhh, well, we kinda hit it off and stayed up talking till 4am outside my building (7 hours in total) and have another date for Sunday and... well let's just say I had coworkers making fun of me yesterday because I couldn't stop smiling.

So thanks for the encouragement NN, I'm not gonna give up on it. I've also started writing a novel of sorts, that I didn't think was that good, until I had a former lit student friend basically tell me dude get published, so I'm between calls at my new job I've been writing chapters and I'm all the way up to 20, once I'm done I might submit to iBooks, and yah, I've started circulating it around my office, and all my coworkers keep bugging me for new chapters cause apparently the character is kinda compelling.
     
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Jun 3, 2010, 11:13 AM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
On the other hand, there's a shedload of companies (and bands) who can't afford first rate artists. Not to mention some governments:


I actually really like the 2012 logo. On the other hand the two olympic characters Harrogate and Ipswich (or whatever) are complete pump.
     
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Jun 3, 2010, 11:32 AM
 
Originally Posted by Doc HM View Post
I actually really like the 2012 logo. On the other hand the two olympic characters Harrogate and Ipswich (or whatever) are complete pump.
The logo’s fine. For a porn company.

Wenlock and Mandeville are fine too. For Teletubbies rejects.

Neither has anything to do with the Olympics, though.
     
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Jun 3, 2010, 11:37 AM
 
Originally Posted by Oisín View Post
The logo’s fine. For a porn company.
It's like a stylized map of the world meets Georgia O'Keefe meets MTV c. 1982.

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Jun 3, 2010, 11:46 AM
 
Originally Posted by Salty View Post
Look at this one, you can't tell me that I'm not already better than this guy...
RRC Graphic Design 2nd year David Alleyn
My 6 year old daughter is better that that guy. Thats terrible.

EDIT : quite a few of them are terrible.
     
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Jun 3, 2010, 12:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by Salty View Post
This is a link to the grad portfolio for their 09 class
OH09_splash

Look at this one, you can't tell me that I'm not already better than this guy...
RRC Graphic Design 2nd year David Alleyn
Right, there ya go then. They don't want you showing up the rest of the talentless monkeys on the course.

Same deal when I was a prof - orders from on high dictated that a steady improvement should be seen in all students (so as to show how good the uni was). Since resources were shared between students, those with talent to start with didn't show as much improvement because we didn't have the time to work with them at the higher level they required (and hey, that'd be elitist anyway! Can't have that in an egalitarian organisation). Thus, since they tended to show almost no improvement they made the school look bad.

Originally Posted by Salty View Post
Anyway, I was emo for about, just over a full 24 hours. Then I happen to have a sorta coffee date, with another Red River Reject, and it was actually amazingly great, turns out now he's into software development, and I swear might be the next Steve Jobs, and uhh, well, we kinda hit it off and stayed up talking till 4am outside my building (7 hours in total) and have another date for Sunday and... well let's just say I had coworkers making fun of me yesterday because I couldn't stop smiling.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no. No.
We don't want to hear about where you put your willy.
And no, this guy ain't going to be the next Steve Jobs - if he was, he'd have said "right, f off then, I've got work to do" instead of talking to you until 4am.

Originally Posted by Salty View Post
So thanks for the encouragement NN, I'm not gonna give up on it. I've also started writing a novel of sorts, that I didn't think was that good, until I had a former lit student friend basically tell me dude get published
Don't trust your friends with critiques of your work. Trust your enemies.

If you're not very good and your friends tell you this, you'll get shirty with them and they'll end up not being your friend. So most "friends" will tell you you're awesome. I'm in a similar position right now - a friend of mine basically wants to be me, but the trouble is he's not very good at it... ...but thinks he is. I decided to be honest and suggest he puts at least ten hours a day in and bingo, he's no longer talking to me. I could just as easily have said "yeah, that's awesome!" and saved the friendship, but I figured what's the point if I can't be honest?

Moral is: Don't trust your friends or family when it comes to telling you whether you're any good at anything. Trust your enemies. Trust the market. Trust the balance sheet. But not friends and family - most will say anything to keep the peace.

Originally Posted by Salty View Post
so I'm between calls at my new job I've been writing chapters and I'm all the way up to 20, once I'm done I might submit to iBooks, and yah, I've started circulating it around my office, and all my coworkers keep bugging me for new chapters cause apparently the character is kinda compelling.
Stick to visuals. Flitting about between creative projects is reminiscent of a teenage girl who can't quite work out which MySpace theme she likes best. Stick to what you know. Stick to what you're good at.
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Jun 3, 2010, 07:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
On the other hand, there's a shedload of companies (and bands) who can't afford first rate artists. Not to mention some governments:

Yo, that's fresh!

Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
June 2001: 132,047,000 employed
June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
     
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Jun 4, 2010, 01:23 AM
 
So black men are more inclined towards murder?
     
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Jun 4, 2010, 02:12 AM
 
Thanks Doof, honestly. Though for the writing thing, I've also been a writer for a long time, I've been writing poetry, and what not for years, more as a hobby since nobody likes poetry... and the book is still more of a hobby but the nice thing is I can write it while I'm at work for the most part between calls (working at a call centre now, was supposed to be temporary) but for the most part I've got half the office hooked on my book, I've been emailing chapters out, so I think it could develop a following if it hit the wild and I did some promo on it. Not thinking of making a living off it, but how many people can say that they wrote a book?

But yah, it's funny how much having someone amazing walk into your life can change your perspective. Apparently he got rejected from the same school, but ended up actually starting a business and he's doing really well. It just made me realize, maybe I wanna do school, but maybe I don't need that one... it's just amazing how different I feel two days later.

And thanks Doof for the art school explanation that makes sense. I'd have liked to have had their paper saying I was good though, and I'd have liked to have learned some technical design ideas that I probably don't know. Anyone got any good text books for graphic design they know of?
     
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Jun 4, 2010, 06:07 AM
 
Originally Posted by Salty View Post
Thanks Doof, honestly. Though for the writing thing, I've also been a writer for a long time, I've been writing poetry, and what not for years, more as a hobby since nobody likes poetry... and the book is still more of a hobby but the nice thing is I can write it while I'm at work for the most part between calls (working at a call centre now, was supposed to be temporary) but for the most part I've got half the office hooked on my book, I've been emailing chapters out, so I think it could develop a following if it hit the wild and I did some promo on it. Not thinking of making a living off it, but how many people can say that they wrote a book?
Thing is, I don't think I know anyone who hasn't tried to write a book. It generally works out to be a complete waste of time, since writing books is a lot harder than it looks. If it's just a hobby though - something to do at work between customers - that's great... ...maybe it'll work out, maybe it won't.

Originally Posted by Salty View Post
But yah, it's funny how much having someone amazing walk into your life can change your perspective. Apparently he got rejected from the same school, but ended up actually starting a business and he's doing really well. It just made me realize, maybe I wanna do school, but maybe I don't need that one... it's just amazing how different I feel two days later.
It's good, ain't it? Hope this dude works out for ya.

Originally Posted by Salty View Post
And thanks Doof for the art school explanation that makes sense. I'd have liked to have had their paper saying I was good though, and I'd have liked to have learned some technical design ideas that I probably don't know.
Yeah, what I also found was that those with talent generally could learn from books and observation, while those without needed hands-on. Of course, it was music not visuals, but it's all art, ain't it? I'm still convinced that the only thing a uni course will give the talented is a slip of paper to say they've completed the course - your portfolio is the passport to the real world.

I think you're pretty good at this graphics thing - go for it and start hassling those myspacer bands for some work! (etc.)
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Jun 4, 2010, 07:25 AM
 
Originally Posted by Salty View Post
but how many people can say that they wrote a book?
Back in the day I started a self publishing company, as a side business. We quickly got traction, but the amount of drivel that got submitted was just too depressing, so I passed the company on to somebody else.

So yes, millions of people write books, but the vast majority are crap. A good book is almost always made better by a good editor btw, so make sure to get one.

Personally speaking, and forgive my honesty, I don't think much of your design work in it's current state. From what I've seen, you developed a way to apply PS filters in a way that creates a certain look. That's neither art nor design and you need to come up with something better if you want to get into school, any school. I am not saying you can't do it, but I am saying that you probably need to take a fresh look at your work.

There's always the Doof alternative, go out and get the edges knocked off by doing work in the real world and that's not a bad idea either. The difference between school and the real world is that there's money involved in the real world, and that makes for a more demanding work environment. If you fall flat on a school project nobody cares much, if you do on a paid job the pain can be considerable.

Callcenter work, is there a way you can get out of there? It eats your soul and sucks you dry. If there is a way you could make the money you need to live working as a server three nights a week I'd take it.
     
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Jun 4, 2010, 09:23 AM
 
off-topic professional advice.
( Last edited by andi*pandi; Jun 7, 2010 at 10:34 AM. )
     
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Jun 4, 2010, 09:56 PM
 
For the record aside from some blurs I don't really use Photoshop filters much, I use a lot of the brush tools, I dodge and burn a lot, I play with levels and curves a fair bit, but as far as actually using photoshop filters, I almost never use a lens flare, and if I do I tend to mask it on a black layer, drop the opacity to like 10% and hit overlay, so that you can barely even tell it's there.

I'll also say keep in mind that most of the stuff in my recent flickr stuff this year was all done for Church, hence it does have a certain feel that I'm going for. I haven't been working on many large projects that take a lot of time.

Oh and on the book thing, yah this wasn't initially something I even wanted to go professional with, but the support that I've gotten from nearly everyone who reads it has been pretty dramatic. I'm flushing out the rough draft, and yah I'll need to find a good editor. I'm not sure exactly how I'd go about paying one though...
     
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Jun 5, 2010, 12:03 AM
 
Salty: I think one variable that nobody has really discussed yet is whether you'll ultimately be happier working freelance or full-time for some company. As a freelancer, you are obviously left to your own ingenuity and savviness to earn your pay cheque by showing clients that they need something and you are the guy that can make their lives better. As a 9-5er you obviously give up a lot, but you also have semi-steady work with the usual sorts of corporate benefits. Since you've worked retail you must have an idea of what a 9-5 job is like.

The reason for bringing this up is that I would imagine that many employers looking to hire you for a full-time designer job would probably want a certain degree as a means to vet applicants. I personally love freelance, but it is not for everybody. Have you thought about whether you'd be happier freelancer or in the 9-5 grind?

P.S. unlike Doofy I'd like to know where you put your willy. Please share!
     
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Jun 5, 2010, 12:10 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
P.S. unlike Doofy I'd like to know where you put your *****. Please share!
Besson, WTF ?

-t
     
Salty  (op)
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Jun 5, 2010, 02:35 AM
 
I think I'd do better to start out as a 9-5er simply so that I could see how it works then I could learn all the ins and outs and then perhaps start my own firm, I work better on a team either way... though preferably in charge of the team haha.
     
Salty  (op)
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Jun 5, 2010, 02:46 AM
 
Oh and I don't really put my willy anywhere, I'm more of a bottom, I mean I guess if the guy really wants it and I'm really into him I would... but either way I don't imagine I'll be sleeping with this guy right away, sex wise I'd rather wait a while, since to be honest I'm pretty sure just holding his hand is going to be better than every sexual experience I've ever had...
     
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Jun 5, 2010, 03:21 AM
 
PG-13 rated forum?
     
Clinically Insane
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Jun 5, 2010, 03:32 AM
 
Geez, Salty, and Besson, get a fu<king room.

-t
     
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Jun 5, 2010, 11:10 AM
 
Originally Posted by Andy8 View Post
PG-13 rated forum?
What’s the PG rating for “Unsuitable for everyone”?
     
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Jun 5, 2010, 01:13 PM
 
off-topic professional advice.
( Last edited by andi*pandi; Jun 7, 2010 at 10:34 AM. )
     
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Jun 5, 2010, 02:15 PM
 
I'd say this deserves an infraction, just for the tastelessness of it.

-t
     
Salty  (op)
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Jun 5, 2010, 02:53 PM
 
oh please, the straight guys on the lounge say far worse in every hot babes picture fest, grow a thicker skin people

In other news, I'm running on day four of a seemingly though not drug induced emotional high... it actually feels a lot like when I got high on morphine! (Appendix removed... I started flirting with all the doctors... my mother was so embarrassed.)
     
 
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