[Eug]

I have part of my home wired for Gigabit Ethernet using CAT5e, and now that I'm doing a partial reno, I'm wondering if I should do the rest of it with CAT6 just to future proof it. Then I started wondering just what the heck I'd use 10 GigE for. For file transfers I like having GigE, but in 2010 I still only "need" 100 Mbps Ethernet, for stuff like multimedia viewing, etc.

At what point do you guys think 10 GigE would actually be necessary inside a home?

I've thinking probably not for another 15 years or so, but then again maybe by that time for home applications wireless will be more important. IOW, maybe it won't be so much that 10 GigE is necessary, but that fast wireless is the main requirement. And by fast wireless I mean speeds of less than GigE, but reliable. For reference, my GigE network at home gives me speeds of 936 Mbps according to iperf.

One reason I say this is that at higher than GigE speeds, we are limited by so many other things, and will continue to be limited somewhat. One simple example is HD movie playback. Going forward I do NOT foresee any home movie format going beyond 1080p60 x 2, because really there just isn't any point for it for home entertainment. If Blu-ray is already niche, then 4K 3D is going to be even more niche, and one niche that even most avid movie watchers with projectors (like me) won't care about.

I do think that eventually 10 GigE will make it to the home, esp. for home network backups and such, but personally I don't think it will be as important as GigE will (eventually) become, and definitely nowhere near as important as 100 Base-T was/is. 10 GigE will take a very long time to be really necessary in most homes. I'd be surprised if there's much demand for it before 2025, even with stuff like Apple's Time Capsule for backups becoming popular. In fact, even though I have a Gigabit network, I only bothered putting 100 Mbps switches in most of the network, because I didn't want to spend the extra cash to get Gigabit switches at this point.

Nonetheless I'll likely go CAT6 shopping soon, just to be safe. Maybe I'll wire it with CAT6 x 1 and CAT5e x 2. I already have CAT5e cable, and I can use it for telephone.

[Dork.]

We will always need more bandwidth. Build it, and I'm sure you'll be able to find a use for it.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Eug 

At what point do you guys think 10 GigE would actually be necessary inside a home?

Never.
Contrary to popular geek belief, you actually don't need any type of network in your home. You won't die if you can't transfer a digitised copy of Die Hard 4 from one device to another in two milliseconds.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Dork. 

We will always need more bandwidth. Build it, and I'm sure you'll be able to find a use for it.

Well, to be honest, like I said I have a GigE network, and in reality I still don't really have that much of a use for it even in 2010. It's nice to have, but in fact what I do works just fine over 100 Mbps Ethernet, including streaming HD video.

But yeah, I will build it. It turns out a local eBhey merchant sells 500 ft of CAT6 for under CAD$70. You can get 1000 ft boxes online for cheaper per foot, but the shipping is killer, and I only need a few hundred feet anyway.

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Never.
Contrary to popular geek belief, you actually don't need any type of network in your home.

Heh, that's a good one. I guess that's why 802.11g and 100 Base-T are abysmal failures in the home market.

[Doofy]

To be straight, Eug, you're thinking of trying to "future proof" computer related stuff? This time next week they could decide that any type of ethernet is old technology and data transfer will now be via quantum entanglement or cat poop or via a mesh of conductive material built into your hardwood floor.

Go "cheap and now".

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

To be straight, Eug, you're thinking of trying to "future proof" computer related stuff? This time next week they could decide that any type of ethernet is old technology and data transfer will now be via quantum entanglement or cat poop or via a mesh of conductive material built into your hardwood floor.

Go "cheap and now".

Cheap and now is to wire with CAT6 for $70 with CAT6 jacks (<$2 each). All said and done, the price premium over CAT5e wiring and terminations would be well under $100 for the entire house. I'd save maybe $20 on the cable and $0.25 each per jack if I went CAT5e only. In fact, one could even terminate with CAT5e jacks now and then reterminate to CAT6 later if necessary. However, since I need to buy new jacks anyway, I'd just get CAT6.

The big cost here are the switches, but I won't bother with 10 GigE switches until I need them, which could very well be never.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Cheap and now is to wire with CAT6 for $70 with CAT6 jacks (<$2 each). All said and done, the price premium over CAT5e wiring and terminations would be well under $100 for the entire house. I'd save maybe $20 on the cable and $0.25 each per jack if I went CAT5e only. In fact, one could even terminate with CAT5e jacks now and then reterminate to CAT6 later if necessary. However, since I need to buy new jacks anyway, I'd just get CAT6.

The big cost here are the switches, but I won't bother with 10 GigE switches until I need them, which could very well be never.

Ahh, well go for it. $100 is neither here nor there.

[Eug]

Heh. As a lark I just did a bit of searching around for 10 GigE switches online. They start in the mid 4-digit $ price range as they all seem to be rack-mountable enterprise level units with a bazillion ports, as opposed to 8-port home 1 GigE switches which nowadays go for $50. Maybe I'll go out and buy another Gigabit switch now to convert the rest of my network to GigE. I want a new 8-port anyway, and sticking with 100 Mbps would save me all of $17. Last time I looked (a few years ago), 8-port Gigabit switches were 3-digit $.

[OreoCookie]

Regarding the title:
… whenever 3D porn becomes broadly available

[Eug]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

Regarding the title:
… whenever 3D porn becomes broadly available

Ah, but my post above already covers that.

Originally Posted by yours truly 

One simple example is HD movie playback. Going forward I do NOT foresee any home movie format going beyond 1080p60 x 2, because really there just isn't any point for it for home entertainment. If Blu-ray is already niche, then 4K 3D is going to be even more niche, and one niche that even most avid movie watchers with projectors (like me) won't care about.

1080p60 x 2 = stereo 1080p = 3D pr0n

That can even be handled with 100 Mbps Ethernet although with heavy (but frame perfect) H.264 compression, and GigE won't even break a steamy sweat over it. 10 GigE would be overkill.

[OreoCookie]

I know, but this sentence was the spontaneous immediate reaction to your title, I couldn't help it

[Phileas]

I haven't plugged any of my computers into a wired network for years*.



*Except for last week, at a presentation. They had no wireless, but that was the exception.

[PB2K]

i agree that there will always be a use for it. maybe you'll be your own ISP one day. All network from all over the world will pass your system..better prepare for it

[demani]

Not anytime soon. It won't be until we have another upswing in video resolution/technology and that could take at least 30 years. As mentioned a 3D 1080p stream should be just fine over gigabit. More likely you might end up with a video server (or distribution point) and that might need a 10Gb port to be able to send out multiple streams (say to every TV in the house at once-but they would only need 1GB links). So all in all- it will be VERY long time, and the time span will be sufficiently large that spending to do so shouldn't be a big concern. Put the money saved into a gigabit switch for the house instead (or better yet, run to a central closet and put in a patch panel-WAY more useful-and will be for the next several years).

And since drives will take a while before they can REALLY overload a GigE connection, even basic file transfer isn't going to push it too often, if ever.

[mduell]

Why wouldn't you run Cat6? The cost difference is trivial.

[ghporter]

If I had it to do over again, I'd definitely have every room wired with at least one Ethernet port, all centralized into the room I already had my broadband equipment wired for. As it is now, I have to run a couple of chunks of cable to get a few things I want to be wired to work. And it's bloody hot here, day or night, so it ain't happening for a while.

But if you shop around you can find Cat6 priced at a tiny premium over Cat5e, and sometimes only a tiny premium over cheaper Cat5.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by mduell 

Why wouldn't you run Cat6? The cost difference is trivial.

When I originally wired (a bit of) it a few years ago, CAT6a bulk spools were quite expensive locally (esp. for gel CAT6 to be run outside the house), and many electrical shops wanted registered accounts for by-the-foot sales, which were also marked up hugely vs. 1000 ft. spools. It was a real PITA. I guess it was because they just assumed anyone installing CAT6 at the time was for corporate type installations. Online it was OK, but then again the shipping prices were killer. I did find one place that had more reasonable pricing, but it was all 23 AWG CAT6 and not the more usual 24 AWG stuff (which is easier to deal with for common keystone jacks and RJ45 plugs). However, as you say, now the cost difference for standard 24 AWG CAT6 is trivial so I'm just running CAT6/6a this time.

I do have several hundred feet of CAT5e left over, but my electrician recommends running 2 x phone anyway to every room, so he'll use the remaining CAT5e for that, and run CAT6/6a for Ethernet, along with RG6 coax to every room. BTW, he doesn't use CAT3 anymore for phone. I wonder who still does, but it seems like a lot of people, since CAT3 is still ubiquitous in the hardware stores. I'm not sure if by 2 x phone he means 2 x CAT5e or just one cable.

BTW, when all is said and done, I'll have CAT3, CAT5, CAT5e, and CAT6/6a in this house. I tried running Gigabit over the existing CAT5 for a while, and it seemed to work fine actually, even though it was regular indoor cable that the previous owner installed outside, exposed to the sun and rain. Then again it was just a short run. However, now the Gigabit is all on CAT5e, and I've put gel-filled CAT5e on the outside of the house too to resist the elements.

Oh and I have an RG11 drop right to the demarc at the house. It was I believe RG59 before, but I was having signal strength issues so finally the cable company to agreed to change the 140 ft run to RG11, instead of making me use a signal booster (which can cause its own problems).

[downinflames68]

Never. I don't plan on staying any one place for a long time, so it'd be pointless. Also, it's be easier for cyberdyne to take control of your appliances.

[Eug]

I plan on retiring in this house, but of course, plans do change. Even if I don't retire in this house, I could definitely see myself living here >15 years. Otherwise I wouldn't bother.

BTW, for some spots, like where the TV is going, I might install conduits.

[turtle777]

Build it, and they will come.

-t

[residentEvil]

when i "did" my house; i ran this:

2 Cat. 5e, 2 RG6 Quad Cable, Jacket 500 Feet - RG6 Coax Cable - Smarthome

10/100/1000 to all rooms, some rooms have multiple drops, plus the garage. the fiber is dark (not terminated) but is ready if anything comes down the pipe that i have to have it for. i don't see a need for cat6 in the home or 10GigE (the cost of switches alone will keep it cost prohibitive. i know costs go down over time, but this isn't something that was meant for the home market).



i recently went back through in a couple spots; and ran an HDMI cable to the bedrooms, game room and living room. all this runs to the distribution point near my home theater in the basement. the HDMI runs hook up to a 4x4 hdmi switch from monoprice.

For only $184.88 each when QTY 50+ purchased - 4X4 True Matrix HDMI 1.3a Powered Switch w/ Remote Controller (Rev. 3.0) | Auto/Powered HDMI Switches

i have the blu-ray player and hd cable box in the theater as two of the sources; and living room hd cable box as another source (still have one source free). and from there, can watch either of those 3 sources on my extra tvs (two bedrooms, game room). theater and living room have direct hooks to the their said cable boxes/blu-ray players. no sense in having cable boxes and blu-ray players in every room, specially when most aren't occupied all at the same time. reduces monthly cable box fees and cuts down on electronics all over the house that just sit there most the time not being used. so instead of 5 hd cable boxes and fees, can do it all with 2. instead of having 5 blu-ray players, can do it with two.

i can control it all with my logitech ir/rf remotes and a couple sensors.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by Eug 

BTW, he doesn't use CAT3 anymore for phone. I wonder who still does, but it seems like a lot of people, since CAT3 is still ubiquitous in the hardware stores.

People still have home phones?

[Eug]

I do.

[indigoimac]

Just run the cat6 -- make sure to keep in mind the differing install req from cat5e -- wider bend radius, etc. Either way, I think the jury is still out on what medium 10gb will end up being on cat6, cat7, or fiber. Or all of the above, so make an attempt at getting it right, cat6, now and if you have to switch to fiber later on so be it.

All that said, if you have walls open, run conduit and pull lines! You'll never have to worry about it again as adding a new cable will be cake.

[Eug]

What do you generally use for conduits? 2" plastic plumbing pipes? I had run a 3" PVC conduit through a cinderblock wall, but I just used that because it was left over from a furnace installation. 3" would get rather unwieldy in some spots, and it's more expensive.

P.S. My Cat 6 has arrived. It's labelled as "Cat 6e" which presumably means 500 MHz Cat 6, which I had thought was actually called Cat 6a. Does Cat 6e officially exist, or is it just a made up term? Some stuff I read, just says 6e = 500 MHz and is the type of cable spec'd for commerical installs, but other stuff I read says its not an official standard, and that the official spec is actually 6a.

It's solid 24 AWG wire, but interestingly, this particular one has an x-shaped plastic spline down the centre of the cable that separate the four pairs of wire. The spline makes it unsuitable for RJ45 plugs, which I had been using as a quick and dirty connector in some situations. Oh well, I'll just have to pick up some more keystone jacks.

[indigoimac]

Originally Posted by Eug 

What do you generally use for conduits? 2" plastic plumbing pipes? I had run a 3" PVC conduit through a cinderblock wall, but I just used that because it was left over from a furnace installation. 3" would get rather unwieldy in some spots, and it's more expensive.

Honestly, whatever the cheapest and easiest is -- they also make lowvoltage flexible conduit that I think is 1.5" -- they've got it at home depot -- it's either orange or blue I think.

HomeTech Solutions: Conduits & Raceways

That stuff is actually all the way down to 3/4" depending on how much cable you are running to each room, wallspace, etc.

I would just be terminating into keystones anyway, the rj45 ends are a pain regardless and I'd rather have it terminated at the wall on one end and at a patch bay on the other if possible.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by Eug 

P.S. My Cat 6 has arrived. It's labelled as "Cat 6e" which presumably means 500 MHz Cat 6, which I had thought was actually called Cat 6a. Does Cat 6e officially exist, or is it just a made up term? Some stuff I read, just says 6e = 500 MHz and is the type of cable spec'd for commerical installs, but other stuff I read says its not an official standard, and that the official spec is actually 6a.

Cat 6a is ANSI/TIA/EIA-568-B.2-10. Cat 6e does not exist. The next step up is 7/7a.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by mduell 

Cat 6a is ANSI/TIA/EIA-568-B.2-10. Cat 6e does not exist. The next step up is 7/7a.

OK.

Interestingly, there are a LOT of vendors out there selling Category "6e". My guess is that this is their better-than-Cat6 stuff, but which hasn't actually been officially certified as meeting full 6a spec.

I've seen "350 MHz Cat 6", "500 MHz Cat 6", "550 MHz Cat 6", "Cat 6e", and "Cat 6a", all of which are Cat 6, but only the latter can truly claim 6a.

Anyways, my longest run is around 30 metres, which is roughly half the distance what Cat 6 is spec'd for (55 m) for 10 GigE. (6a is rated for 100 metres at 10 GigE).