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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Samsung Galaxy Tab: 7" Screen vs. 10" Sound Off!

Samsung Galaxy Tab: 7" Screen vs. 10" Sound Off!
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Nov 21, 2010, 12:24 PM
 
Banging my head against the wall on this. I've had an iPad for a while. Steve recently said that 7" screens are not going to last because they are not big enough to be preferable to a smartphone, and are too small for tablet apps.

While surfing the web with the iPad is great, after some months of use, and after testing a Galaxy Tab, I have this nagging feeling that 10" is not the sweet spot for a tablet. I'm getting tired of the iPad slipping out of my hands. It's very awkward to hold when it's not resting up against anything. When you have to just hold it in your hands. And it's heavy.

I tested the Galaxy Tab yesterday and man what a joy to use. I could hold it easily with 1 hand. It's much lighter than the iPad as well, and so much smaller overall. It's way more portable. And the screen looked great.

Steve also says that the screens are too small for multi-touch interfaces. Funny, there's a lot of things a tablet is good for, and if we're talking multi-touch interfaces, we use these on tiny smartphones, so why would a multi-touch OS not be suitable on a screen much larger (like 7") be any worse?

So I'm torn because for reading books, even watching movies and surfing the web (top tablet activities)... the smaller form factor/lighter weight yet decent size screen of a 7" tablet feels like a better experience than a 10" tablet overall.

And another thing. Jobs said that a 7" screen next to a 9.7" screen (iPad's), is actually only 45% as big because screens are measured diagonally. So the Galaxy screen, on surface area alone I'm guessing, would take up not quite all of the lower half of the iPad screen. Correct me if I'm wrong on this point.

The problem I have with this is, it's a smokescreen because it omits a reference to resolution.

The Galaxy Tab has a 1024 x 600 resolution display, whereas the iPad has a 1024 x 768 resolution. So the pixels per inch on the Tab are much higher. With this, Apple has always marketed higher resolution screens as being like, "40% more screen in the same size screen!". Now Steve is saying that the screen is only 45% the size of the iPad, when in fact it's pixel density is much higher:

Samsung Galaxy Tab pixels per inch: 169
iPad pixels per inch: 132

This means that while things will look smaller on the Galaxy Tab, it will fit most of what the iPad will fit on its screen.

I'm interested to hear what you have to say about this current thorny debate.
     
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Nov 21, 2010, 01:20 PM
 
Even Gizmodo hates it.

'Nuff said.
     
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Nov 21, 2010, 02:13 PM
 
^ They hate the iPad or the Galaxy?
     
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Nov 21, 2010, 03:09 PM
 
It wouldn't be worth noting if they had a problem with an Apple product, would it?

Samsung Galaxy Tab Review: A Pocketable Train Wreck

Here's the thing about tablets: Size is everything. Size is the whole point. It's what makes browsing, reading, creating and sharing better on a tablet than on a phone, even if they're both running the same software.

If you take iPhone apps and simply scale them up for the iPad, most of them don't feel right. If you take Android apps and scale them up for the Tab, the majority of them—Twitter, Facebook, Angry Birds—work perfectly. (Except for when they don't, like The Weather Channel.) That's because the Galaxy Tab is small enough that apps simply blown up a little bit still fundamentally work. Which means, conversely, that there's almost no added benefit to using the Tab over a phone. It's not big enough. Web browsing doesn't have greater fidelity. I don't get more out of Twitter. A magazine app would be cramped.

Videos do look better than they do on a phone, but a bigger tablet would be even better.

There is no way to not feel like a total dorkface while typing on this thing. In portrait, it's like tapping on a massive, nerdy phone. In landscape, it's just dumb. You still have to thumb type, only you're stretching out further, and text entry swallows up the entire screen. Swype might be dandy on a phone, but on a seven-inch screen it doesn't work so well—you have to travel a lot further to sketch out words. In other words, you get the worst of a phone's input problems—amplified.

[...]

Typically, the point of a compromise is to bring together the best of both sides. The Tab is like a compromise's evil twin, merging the worst of a tablet and the worst of a phone. It has all of the input problems of a tablet, with almost none of the consumption benefits. With more apps geared to its tweener size, it could be a lot better, but it's not clear they're coming anytime soon, if ever. The Tab is an awkward first attempt at this kind of tablet—wait for somebody else to do it better.
     
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Nov 21, 2010, 04:59 PM
 
I don't agree with that Giz review. I'm not going to dump my iPad just yet, but the Tab was impressive. I think they'll get some sales.

We'll see what the market reaction is. This could get interesting. But I will say again, as I type this on my iPad that the iPad is really awkward and heavy to hold up.

I thought about it. If Apple puts a retina display on here, they may be able to make the screen a tad smaller because it will be so much more crisp. Then the form factor could cinched up a bit more. Then the weight would be reduced slightly. With the new, smaller flash memory chips and lighter glass touchscreens, they could shave off even more weight. 1.5 lbs is just too much. I could live with 1.25 or less.

I'm interested to see what they do with iPad 2. I know they are aware of all the posts out there about it being too big and heavy. And after using it themselves, they must be aware of these issues too.
     
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Nov 21, 2010, 05:24 PM
 
The on-screen keyboard is *just* large enough to be usefully typed on.
     
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Nov 21, 2010, 06:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
Even Gizmodo hates it.

'Nuff said.
Oh great! Gizmodo is the final word for tech journalism! Now read a real, unbiased review.

I really like the 7" form factor. The iPad is at a weight where I would think twice about sticking it in my bag every single day, but the Galaxy Tab is so lightweight that I'd just take it every day. And I like how you can hold it in landscape with two hands and type just like any smartphone. I still can't figure out how to properly type on the iPad, but I was pretty much 100% accurate on the Galaxy Tab. However, the Galaxy Tab has a few huge (software-related) issues that will probably cripple it as a device.
     
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Nov 21, 2010, 06:44 PM
 
I like the size and weight of the Galaxy Tab.

However, I won't buy one, considering the damn thing costs CAD$540. That's not much cheaper than the CAD$549 3G-less iPad, which I think is also overpriced.

I wouldn't even consider a Tab unless it was say $349 (without 3G support). In the meantime I'll just continue using my 11.6" netbook with Pentium dual-core, that also lasts 8 hours. Yeah it's heavier and bulkier (11.2" x 8.0") but hey, it's only $399 and does a heluvalot more... and it's not as if I'd actually carry a 10" iPad around much more than the netbook given the iPad's large size (9.6" x 7.5"). (I might for the much smaller Tab though.) Yeah, the iPad is half the weight of the netbook, but it's got almost the same footprint... which is probably why some of my colleagues have stopped carrying theirs around after their initial honeymoon period of a couple of weeks. Besides their iPhones, they now either carry around their laptops or else carry around nothing.

P.S. Even ignoring Flash for the time being, I find surfing on the netbook a heluvalot more pleasant than with the iPad. The netbook sits on the lap or on the table or whatever. With the iPad I have to hold it, and after a few minutes my arm gets tired. You can buy stands for the iPad, but are you really gonna carry that around too? The Galaxy Tab suffers the same problem, but at least it's a lot lighter.
( Last edited by Eug; Nov 21, 2010 at 06:55 PM. )
     
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Nov 21, 2010, 10:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
With the iPad I have to hold it, and after a few minutes my arm gets tired. You can buy stands for the iPad, but are you really gonna carry that around too? The Galaxy Tab suffers the same problem, but at least it's a lot lighter.
I'm astounded that none of the tablets have a little fold-out leg to prop it up on the table.
     
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Nov 21, 2010, 10:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton View Post
I'm astounded that none of the tablets have a little fold-out leg to prop it up on the table.
HTC owns a patent for a tablet with a stand (most of their phones have stands). So now they just have to make one.
     
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Nov 21, 2010, 11:12 PM
 
Some of the cases do have built in stands though.

And there's one supposedly coming soon that turns it into a (2.5 lb?) netbook with real (Bluetooth) keyboard.

     
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Nov 22, 2010, 04:52 PM
 
600,000 Tabs sold so far.

I tried one out again today. I really like it. I just wonder how it's going to fair long-term.

And the positive reviews are rolling in all over the place (user reviews on YouTube, Blogs, etc.).

The funny thing is, Android is getting criticism on it because it's not a 'tablet version'. The funny thing is, it doesn't apply to the core set of apps on the Tab (Email, Calendar, web browser, etc.).

To me it's just hyperbole: iPad users are hardly buying any apps at all. And as a tablet user (iPad), I don't buy many apps either. I use core apps. I don't waste my time with all the useless apps on the app store, and I'm sure I'm not alone.

Email, web browsing, video, and reading. This is about 90% of what a person uses their tablet for. And these apps are customized for the Tab.
     
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Nov 22, 2010, 05:34 PM
 
So, what's so bad about Android on a tablet anyway? As far as I'm concerned, the iPad is just a blown up iPhone (without voice), so I can understand why the tablet makers would just use Android.

Or are there serious app incompatibilities? I'm asking because I don't know anyone who owns a Galaxy Tab.

BTW, what is the pricing like in the US? The prices here are all over the map.
     
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Nov 22, 2010, 08:39 PM
 
Hey Eug:

I agree. I don't see what's wrong with Android in its current form on the Tab. And ya, a lot of times I look at the iPad and just see a giant iPhone.

The widgets and core apps on the tab are all custom for it. Using it the fit and finish was right on par with the iPad. In fact, it seemed better on the Tab because its multi tasking is superior and it has widgets that all run at the same time on screen.

iOS, even with the current 4.2 update for the iPad is still a one trick pony. And I challenge anyone to demonstrate that's it's harder to type on a Tab.
     
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Nov 22, 2010, 11:38 PM
 
This is the big problem with "Steve Jobs commands!" thinking, or rather, lack thereof.

There's no friggen reason for this stupid either/or do or die battle between everything. There's room for 10" screens. There's room for 7" screens. There's room for whatever the hell other size screen anyone wants to come up with and people want to use. It's called CHOICE. Pick which you like, and use it. Everything else that exists doesn't cancel it out, make it better or make it worse. Whatever The One Steve commands means exactly dick if he happens to be wrong about something else existing, like a 7" screen on a freakin' tablet or disk based HD media, or whatever.
     
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Nov 22, 2010, 11:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
I agree. I don't see what's wrong with Android in its current form on the Tab. And ya, a lot of times I look at the iPad and just see a giant iPhone.
The fact that the company that built the OS running on the Tab specifically says that they never intended the OS to run on a tablet form factor and won't be supported on a tablet form factor doesn't bother you at all? What if you need to restore the factory software?
     
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Nov 22, 2010, 11:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
To me it's just hyperbole: iPad users are hardly buying any apps at all. And as a tablet user (iPad), I don't buy many apps either. I use core apps. I don't waste my time with all the useless apps on the app store, and I'm sure I'm not alone.
What? iPad users are using a TON of apps. That's the whole iOS draw.
     
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Nov 23, 2010, 12:05 AM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
The fact that the company that built the OS running on the Tab specifically says that they never intended the OS to run on a tablet form factor and won't be supported on a tablet form factor doesn't bother you at all? What if you need to restore the factory software?
The cheap tablets running Android 1.6 to 2.1 are the ones Google is most against, but Froyo (2.2) though not optimized for tablets by Google itself, can be made fairly capable as a tablet OS. The larger problem is making the Android Marketplace compatible with yet another type of device.

Starting with Gingerbread though (3.0) Google will probably fork the OS off into separate phone and tablet optimized versions with their full support. I think Gingerbread is where Android tablets will actually come into their own. All the gizmos out now trying to "Me too!" the iPad are simply too early to the party.
     
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Nov 23, 2010, 12:15 AM
 
Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE View Post
Starting with Gingerbread though (3.0) Google will probably fork the OS off into separate phone and tablet optimized versions with their full support. I think Gingerbread is where Android tablets will actually come into their own. All the gizmos out now trying to "Me too!" the iPad are simply too early to the party.
Gingerbread is 2.3.

I don't think that Google is going to make Android for tablets as of yet, there are no rumours of a Google-branded dev tablet so far. Seems like a long way off still.
     
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Nov 23, 2010, 01:21 AM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
Gingerbread is 2.3.
Ah. I've seen it referenced consistently as 3.0, but you're right, it looks like it will be 2.3.

I don't think that Google is going to make Android for tablets as of yet, there are no rumours of a Google-branded dev tablet so far. Seems like a long way off still.
Google doesn't necessarily need to brand the device. They simply need to exercise more control over Android, and let developers do the rest within a more rigid set of standards. This is one area where Apple really has things right. There's no developer confusion for iPhone/iPad the way there is with Android.

If Google aren't planning Gingerbread to fork into a tablet version (and again, more specifically the App Marketplace) and somehow enforce standard guidelines for 'HD' apps to go with it, then they simply aren't being realistic and someone else may take the ball and run with it. In fact, the problem is, if they don't, four or five others are likely to take the ball and run with it- in four or five different directions. Google sitting on their thumbs and ignoring reality will only hurt them by further fragmenting the platform. Lead, or get out of the way.
     
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Nov 23, 2010, 02:21 AM
 
CRASH:

You're right, Steve Jobs just tells people what he wants them to believe. And it's always because he wants you to buy his stuff. Like how he thought netbooks were a waste of time.

Oh, now Apple releases an 11" Air netbook.

And nice smokescreen Apple with the Beatles thing. You know why Apple did that? To divert your attention away from the Windows Phone 7 launch week.

Anyway, here's the problem I have. Mitch, you're just recycling what you hear in the media. Did you read what I said? I've actually spent some time using the Galaxy Tab in the real world, and read the following carefully: it comes with a set of core apps designed and optimized for a tablet computer. Designed and optimized for it.

This thing is really blow away. With the multiple widgets being open at one time, the customization, and super high pixel density, it's sharp.

Also, iPad owners, based on several surveys, do NOT get that many apps at all.

Here's one read:

iPad users not App Crazy – Nielsen | All on the iPhone, iPod touch & iPad
     
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Nov 23, 2010, 03:38 AM
 
You've got me interested in the Galaxy Tab... I will check it out for sure. I love that I can surf very easily with my iPad, but I hate that 1/3 of the sites I visit don't fully function because Steve has a grudge against Adobe. And I hate the app store and iTunes. And the iPad is awkward to hold in bed while reading or trying to type on it while laying down. Etc.
     
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Nov 23, 2010, 03:45 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Nielsen screwed up their analysis: Nielsen recants app-less iPad figures
     
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Nov 23, 2010, 04:06 AM
 
@freudling
It's certainly a valid criticism that the current release versions of Android are not made for tablets, Google has publicly recommended that manufacturers should wait for Gingerbread (3.0) instead.

So yes, the Galaxy Tab comes with its own apps, but you can't download too many apps which are optimized for tablets. While this is something Google will address in the future, it also means the current breed of Android tablets does not compete neck to neck with the iPad.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
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Nov 23, 2010, 10:02 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Anyway, here's the problem I have. Mitch, you're just recycling what you hear in the media. Did you read what I said? I've actually spent some time using the Galaxy Tab in the real world, and read the following carefully: it comes with a set of core apps designed and optimized for a tablet computer. Designed and optimized for it.
Reading the hard data from Nielsen, only 9% of iPad owners haven't purchased an app. That seems like a pretty big number of app purchasers to me. Sure, the Galaxy Tab has optimised core apps for it, but so does the iPad. Listen, as a product, I think the Galaxy Tab is really nice. I'd have one, except for the huge core issue: developers, developers, developers. Who knows how developers will take to it? By the time 3.0 is out, the Tab will be old hardware. Sure developers can create apps specifically for the Tab screen, but they need Tabs to test it on. What happens in the emulator isn't always realistic of what will happen on a real Android device with multiple notifications and apps running, etc. Samsung should be sending out hundreds of Tabs to devs. For me, there is no way I'm going to spend north of $599 on a device that isn't supported by the people who designed the OS and doesn't have any apps coded for it.
     
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Nov 23, 2010, 11:05 AM
 
$599? These things should be $299. Well, maybe $399.

However, I won't really consider one of these things until 3.0 or whatever it's called is out, and they come with fast enough processors to truly be able to handle simple Flash content.
     
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Nov 23, 2010, 01:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
$599? These things should be $299. Well, maybe $399.
They can be had for $299 contract. Why do you think they should be so cheap though? Is a higher resolution screen and more processor and RAM worth half the price of an iPad?
     
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Nov 23, 2010, 01:48 PM
 
These criticisms are what everbody is throwing at it. My point is that Android runs feels and looks great on the Tab. If the media wasn't regurgitatimg the same headlines, people would have a less biased view of it.

The reality for me as someone who has tested it is that it comes with a host of apps and functionality designed for it I wouldn't need to download hardly any apps to cover 100% of what I do on it. That's read books, watch video, surf the web and Email. All of these latter the Tab does extremely well.

And if you like games, I'm sorry to say but the Tab is way easier to play on than the heavy, bulky, awkward iPad.

This buzz in the media is because they're all just followimg each other's headlines. Do yourself a favor and try it, and form your own opinion.

And the one app I do really use outside the box is Skype. Funny, Skype still doesn't have a tablet version for iOS...

After typing this on the iPad in portrait, my hands are tired and cold (aluminum is too sensitive to room temps). And the aluminum is digging into to them. This thing needs to be way lighter and the design such that it feels soft in the hands. The Galaxy Tab actually has that covered.

Don't get me wrong, I like the iPad, but it's flawed. Ya, great... excellent battery life and large screen. But at the expense of what? Usability. My forearms are actually shaking now from the weight and awkwardness of the iPad.

Just do yourself a favor and try out the Tab with an open mind. If you like the iPad better that's cool. But don't fanboi it by advancing the same old "it's got tens of thousands of apps" line. We all know how useless many of them are. It's quality, not quantity. And major industries are now committed to Android... you'll see lots of apps for both smarts and tablets coming up.

And if you think a tablet version of Android won't run on the Tab... it has about the same processing power as the iPad and double the RAM.

And if you think it's too expensive... ya' it's more than the entry level iPad, but the iPhone 4 costs $600 to buy outright...

Hands and wrists officially fatigued.
     
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Nov 23, 2010, 01:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
These criticisms are what everbody is throwing at it. My point is that Android runs feels and looks great on the Tab.
Android, yes. The apps - not so much.
     
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Nov 23, 2010, 02:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
If you like the iPad better that's cool. But don't fanboi it by advancing the same old "it's got tens of thousands of apps" line. We all know how useless many of them are. It's quality, not quantity.
Sure there are tons of useless iOS apps, but there are also a good amount of standouts (especially on the iPad more than the iPhone). But there are no quality, or crappy, apps at all for the Tab. Apart from Angry Birds, that's pretty much the case. How many people are going to want to scale up an app written for a 2.8"-4.3" display on a 7 inch screen? It really, really sucks. The fact that there are simply no apps that are created specifically to take advantage of the hardware is such a gigantic issue for the Tab right now that it doesn't matter how good the hardware is or isn't (again, I think it's an awesome product). Maybe it's because I'm a poor college student, but there is absolutely no way I'm gonna drop 5 Benjamins on a product that doesn't really have a solid outlook for applications until whenever Google rolls out 3.0 (which by all indications is 6 months or more away) and I can't restore if I run into an issue.
     
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Nov 23, 2010, 02:56 PM
 
I was really excited when there were rumors swirling about a 7" iPad as I thought a smaller form factor would be nice. I was a bit deflated when Jobs put the smack-down on the notion. A friend lent me his review Galaxy Tab for a few days last week and I'm now convinced I'm on Mr. Jobs team on this. I don't think it's bad, I just think the overall experience is much better in the iPad. Software aside- I recently spent a week on travel using my son's iPad as my only computer and it was a great experience. Typing on the Tab was actually worse, likely due in part to familiarity, than my iPhone. The keyboard was just way too small to touch type. There are some areas where the content consumption experience is better than the iPhone- but not many, and the iPad is almost always better- FOR ME. When the iPad gets too big and heavy, which I could see happening, I've got the iPhone.
     
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Nov 23, 2010, 03:05 PM
 
imitchellg5 will now explain to you why your review is biased.

(how on earth would you write an UNbiased review? Just listing specs and not drawing any conclusions at all from them?)
     
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Nov 23, 2010, 04:10 PM
 
Mitch:

My point is that the Tab does everything a person using a tablet wants to do out of the box. You can keep clinging to thousands of fart apps though.

And have you ever used a Tab? Please tell me you have to keep some credibility.

And also, so far, the market has spoken. The Tab may reach a million in sales after just one month on the market. Like it or not, couple this with the positive reviews flowing in on YouTube and blogs... There may be some staying power with a 7" screen.
     
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Nov 23, 2010, 05:02 PM
 
The Tab is an island. The iPad is part of a huge ecosystem consisting of apps, accessories, iTunes, media, AppeTV, AirPrint, AirPlay, iPhone, NetFlix, and upcoming new media that we don't even know about yet.
     
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Nov 23, 2010, 05:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Mitch:

My point is that the Tab does everything a person using a tablet wants to do out of the box. You can keep clinging to thousands of fart apps though.

And have you ever used a Tab? Please tell me you have to keep some credibility.

And also, so far, the market has spoken. The Tab may reach a million in sales after just one month on the market. Like it or not, couple this with the positive reviews flowing in on YouTube and blogs... There may be some staying power with a 7" screen.
Originally Posted by imitchellg5
I really like the 7" form factor. The iPad is at a weight where I would think twice about sticking it in my bag every single day, but the Galaxy Tab is so lightweight that I'd just take it every day. And I like how you can hold it in landscape with two hands and type just like any smartphone. I still can't figure out how to properly type on the iPad, but I was pretty much 100% accurate on the Galaxy Tab. However, the Galaxy Tab has a few huge (software-related) issues that will probably cripple it as a device.
Yes, I've used it, and my father bought one. Does it have a Facebook app? Does it have a Twitter client? A game besides Angry Birds? What do iPad users do when they're bored? Download some free or lite version of a game to fool around with. You can't do that with a Tab. Everyone I know iwth an iPhone or iPad has pages upon pages of apps. Anecdotal, yes, but out of my group of friends, I'm the only one without a smartphone. I really don't see how you believe a product can be successful without having any support at all from the company that built the OS and developers. I guess it isn't impossible, but this thing would have to have sold millions of pre-orders to be in the outlook for developers who sell millions upon millions of copies for iOS and webOS games (iOS and webOS port well, Android requires a complete rewrite). Chabig has it right:
Originally Posted by chabig
The Tab is an island. The iPad is part of a huge ecosystem consisting of apps, accessories, iTunes, media, AppeTV, AirPrint, AirPlay, iPhone, NetFlix, and upcoming new media that we don't even know about yet.
Edit: I should point out that I don't own any iOS devices. I'm definitely not an iOS fanboy, but I think at this point as a tablet OS, it's hard to beat.
( Last edited by imitchellg5; Nov 23, 2010 at 05:54 PM. )
     
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Nov 23, 2010, 06:59 PM
 
Mitch:

Android is absolutley successful. Anyone who buys an Android device is in the same boat: it's open like Linux.

You mention FaceBook and Twitter. You know that it actually has special facebok and twitter widgets, and that you can customize a wjdget to mash up twitter and facebook updates? Sorry, but your ignorance is becoming quite apparent.

You also know that almost all of what people do on a tablet is watch movies, surf the web, Email, play games and read books. Anybody who says otherwise is just BSing and everyone knows it.

And this device is brand new. It will get more apps, and Google will support tablets with the gingerbread release. If you think Android will not be optimized for tablet computers... like Google does not see an opportunity for Android on tablets, then you're sadly going to be mistaken.

I just have to respond to all this fluff about the Tab running phone apps. Out of the box you get more software than the iPad. The Tab's custom software is

FaceTime (using Apple's fluffy marketing term)
AirPlay ("")
Stocks
Weather
News
Maps
Email
YouTube
File system
and much more...

Here's a good overview:

YouTube - Samsung Galaxy Tab - All The Great Features (Official Promo Video) [HD]

And a user view:

YouTube - Samsung Galaxy Tab hands-on impressions

Another showing off the widgets and custom apps. Great review:

YouTube - Samsung Galaxy Tab "REAL REVIEW"
     
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Nov 23, 2010, 07:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Mitch:

Android is absolutley successful. Anyone who buys an Android device is in the same boat: it's open like Linux.
Uh, I know that, it's the most-used smartphone OS. Did I ever say Android isn't successful?

You mention FaceBook and Twitter. You know that it actually has special facebok and twitter widgets, and that you can customize a wjdget to mash up twitter and facebook updates? Sorry, but your ignorance is becoming quite apparent.
A widget is not an app. Every Android device has some sort of Facebook or Twitter widget.

You also know that almost all of what people do on a tablet is watch movies, surf the web, Email, play games and read books. Anybody who says otherwise is just BSing and everyone knows it.
Was I saying otherwise? Games, books, email clients, and browsers are all apps available 3rd party.

And this device is brand new. It will get more apps, and Google will support tablets with the gingerbread release. If you think Android will not be optimized for tablet computers... like Google does not see an opportunity for Android on tablets, then you're sadly going to be mistaken.
Did you read anything of what I said? I know that Google is going to at least make a version of Android that is built for tablets with 3.0 (which isn't Gingerbread btw, Gingerbread is 2.3). But who knows when 3.0 will come out? It could be a full year from now. Google hasn't even officially unveiled 2.3 yet. We all know that 3.0 is going to have fairly high standards of entry, will the Hummingbird processor that the Tab uses even be able to run it? Or will it require the 3rd generation Snapdragon?

I just have to respond to all this fluff about the Tab running phone apps. Out of the box you get more software than the iPad. The Tab's custom software is...
I know what software the Tab uses. For the third time, I've used the Tab, I have a T-Mobile Tab right next to me, and I think it's a fine product. I don't understand why it's so ridiculous to say that Samsung has a giant hill to climb when currently Google doesn't care about supporting the current Android tablets out there and developers haven't caught on yet, especially considering that right now Samsung has about 20 different Android devices on multiple carriers running no fewer than 6 versions of TouchWhiz. Is that really so insane? Am I high and drunk?
( Last edited by imitchellg5; Nov 23, 2010 at 07:44 PM. )
     
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Nov 23, 2010, 08:14 PM
 
You keep repeating the same stuff. Google DOES CARE about tablets, it's people like you who keep perpetuating this fluff otherwise.

And for widgets... They work, and they work great. Because they are widgets doesn't mean they are carte blanche less functional than an app. In fact, these work better than apps becauae they run concurrently with live feeds. Have fun opening and closing apps on your iPad, that doesn't have any widgets. Jobs' reply to widgets on the iPad: "Anything's possible." but stilL no widgets.

Widgets are way more efficient on a tablet than having to go in and out of half a dozen apps.

Lastly, my point is that the 600,000 and growing Tab owners are able to use their Tab effectively and efficiently without having to download any apps whatever.

And from someone who is in mobile dev., I'm telling you first hand that people are developing for it. That includes the biggest media consortium in the world.

All this is just a waste explaining further to you. Like when the iPad first launched, the app store was thin on apps for tablets. It's going to change in 3 months and you'll see lots of stuff out there.

The PlayBook is also going to spawn 7" screen app development.

The 7" is actually coming from user group testing, in company testing, and the fact that it approximates the size and form factor of dedicated eReaders like the Amazon Kindle. People really like that size, and Amazon, Sony, etc. have been successful with it. It really is amazimg to see the Tab next to the Kindle running circles around it. And the Tab has a great dedicated eBook reader app and marketplace.

I'm also seeing reports from Doctors who are preferring the Tab to the iPad because it's way easier to use (one handed hold) and it fits in their overcoat pocket.

My point with all of this is, there's room for more than just the iPad in the market. When I heard Jobs speak about 7" screens being DOA, I kinda believed him because of how successful the iPad has been. But now that I have tested the Tab, have seen its initial sales, and read positive reviews on it, I think Jobs is wrong. Whether he's spreading disinformation is another conversation.
( Last edited by freudling; Nov 23, 2010 at 08:22 PM. )
     
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Nov 23, 2010, 08:28 PM
 
Guys. I don't understand why you all think I believe Google doesn't care about tablets. Google would have to be insane about not caring. They've seen the iPad sales since day one, and it's likely been on the roadmap for some time. I know this. All I'm saying is that, again it seems a little crazy to me to drop the money for an Android tablet right now when it's incredibly unclear as to when Google will officially support Android tablets I also know that there is plenty of room for other tablets besides the iPad. The Facebook and Twitter widgets on the Tab aren't very useful to me. When I open a photo from Twitter, it opens in the browser, etc. Nowhere near the functionality of a full on app. But to be fair, I haven't seen an Android widget so far that has the functionality of a full app, only on WebOS 2.0 and JustType. And, for the fourth time, I think that 7" is a great size and that the Tab is a great product. The software situation though is so murky that someone like me and the average MacNN Lounge person should definitely give the Tab a long hard look, but with a grain of salt. If you're an average user who will just browse, it may be fine, but I still don't think that you can overlook the importance of an entire ecosystem that many folks have essentially been used to for the past 3 years. I know that I will never buy an Android tablet unless Google says we have built Android for this hardware, and here is the download for stock tablet Android.

I have the feeling that a lot of iPad buyers buy the iPad because they're used to their iPhone and a lot of Tab buyers bought their Tab because they like their Droid or whatever.
( Last edited by imitchellg5; Nov 23, 2010 at 08:40 PM. )
     
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Nov 23, 2010, 09:17 PM
 
The bickering wars of this thread shall ever be name the "What I read in articles, beats what you say"
     
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Nov 23, 2010, 10:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
They can be had for $299 contract. Why do you think they should be so cheap though? Is a higher resolution screen and more processor and RAM worth half the price of an iPad?
Well, I said I think the iPad is too expensive for what you get too.

As for the iPhone, something that small with a 3G radio and 3G data access and super long battery life and more memory than the iPad should cost a lot more than the WiFi iPad IMO. Or shall I say the WiFi iPad should cost a lot less than the iPhone 4.

But I guess I should qualify that with the comment that I'm typing this on my $399 dual-core C2D class netbook with 8 hour battery life so it's hard for me to see what the draw is of an awkward 10" iPad that costs a heluvalot more. Call me old school. The main reason the Tab interests me is that it ain't anywhere near as awkward as the iPad.
     
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Nov 23, 2010, 10:39 PM
 
Eug:

That's what I'm feeling and seeing. We'll find out in a few months what people really prefer. If it is the smaller form factor, Apple better restrategize because iPad sales could be seriously cannibalized next year.
     
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Nov 23, 2010, 11:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Well, I said I think the iPad is too expensive for what you get too.
Fair enough. I've been blasted in other threads because I said I prefer a netbook over tablet, so I won't go into that...
     
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Nov 23, 2010, 11:45 PM
 
The one thing I'll give those tablets like the iPad is they have much better quality screens than the cheap netbooks, esp. when it comes to viewing angle. The viewing angles on the cheap netbooks suck. That said, it's not as huge of an issue as it would be on a tablet, because it's easy on a netbook to put the screen at any angle you want.

Oh and that screen on the iPhone 4 is just totally awesome. It's so clear with such a huge range for the viewing angle it looks fake, as if somebody pasted a picture on top.
     
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Nov 24, 2010, 02:09 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Eug:

That's what I'm feeling and seeing. We'll find out in a few months what people really prefer. If it is the smaller form factor, Apple better restrategize because iPad sales could be seriously cannibalized next year.
We'll see. Btw, "cannibalized" is used when products eat their OWN kind - basically, iPad would only be "cannibalized" by another Apple product.
     
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Nov 24, 2010, 02:50 AM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Well, I said I think the iPad is too expensive for what you get too.
The iPad is a v1.0 device just like the original iPod. For my iPod, I paid ~800 € (a 20 GB second-gen iPod)! The iPad doesn't interest me enough right now to justify the expense. Since getting an iPod touch (replacing a first-gen iPod nano), I have come to like the touch interface a lot.
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
But I guess I should qualify that with the comment that I'm typing this on my $399 dual-core C2D class netbook with 8 hour battery life so it's hard for me to see what the draw is of an awkward 10" iPad that costs a heluvalot more. Call me old school. The main reason the Tab interests me is that it ain't anywhere near as awkward as the iPad.
A netbook isn't a competitor for the iPad. And if you compare the quality of your average netbook to the iPad, I think it's obvious why you pay more (just think of the screen). On the other hand, Apple has a very nice margin on the iPad -- unlike most computer manufacturers.

What I find very interesting is that no (serious) Android tablet is undercutting Apple's price point despite using smaller screens (for the most part at least). The Galaxy Tab and presumable RIM's Playbook (`under $500') compete at the same price point.

Regarding screen size, I think we should wait and see which sizes prove most popular. Dell has a 5" tablet and AFAIK a 7" version is also in the works. Samsung has the Galaxy tab. RIM will join with a 7" tablet. Somehow 7" seems to be the magical number here -- perhaps that's motivated by price more than usability? In any case, I'd like to try one of these 7" tablets just for the fun of it (as I said, I'm currently not in the market for a new tablet, certainly not before I replace my camera).
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Nov 24, 2010, 07:54 AM
 
5" is too small. I don't see the point.
     
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Nov 24, 2010, 09:47 AM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
5" is too small. I don't see the point.
Me neither. But Dell apparently thought's it's a good idea to produce something that's neither fish nor flesh -- too large to be a smartphone, too small to be a tablet. No wonder they're doing so well financially
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Nov 24, 2010, 10:01 AM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
We'll see. Btw, "cannibalized" is used when products eat their OWN kind - basically, iPad would only be "cannibalized" by another Apple product.
The industry uses this term. They sort of lump computers into one category. If you have an issue with the usage of the term, send an email to all the execs and analysts.

See below.

OreoCookie:

The iPad IS a competitor to netbooks.

Microsoft Windows exec says iPad cannibalizing netbooks | Electronista

http://www.tgdaily.com/mobility-feat...-netbook-sales

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/new..._netbook_sales

And again, if you read above, you'll see why the smaller 7" screen is favorable. Because of the success of dedicated eReaders like the Kindle.

Price. When can we stop faulting companies for charging more than the iPad? But the screen is smaller! The iPhone 4 costs more than an entry iPad, and its screen is comparitively tiny.
( Last edited by freudling; Nov 24, 2010 at 10:21 AM. )
     
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Nov 24, 2010, 10:26 AM
 
If they stopped shipping netbooks with Windows 7 Starter and 1 GB RAM, maybe they'd see an uptick in netbook sales. But maybe they're scared that netbooks would then start eating away at "real" laptop sales.

I'm in the grey zone. I absolutely refused to get a 10.1" netbook because the keyboard is too small, and I absolutely refused to get any machine with Windows 7 Starter or 1 GB RAM. Single-core Atom doesn't impress either. OTOH, the 11.6" MacBook Air netbook is too expensive, and 13.3" laptops are too big. (I already have a 13.3" MacBook Pro.) So, I got that 11.6" Win 7 Home Premium netbook, with real CPU and 2 GB RAM.

The iPad is in that no-mans land, IMO. It's a well designed device no doubt, but at the same time it's got the worst of both worlds. It's as big as a netbook but without the netbook's versatility, and it's powered worse than (or at best equal to) an iPhone 4, with the same limitations.

BTW, now that I have the netbook, I'm almost considering converting all my Keynote presentations to PowerPoint and selling the MacBook Pro. However, I'm holding out hope that the 11.6" MacBook Air will get an update in 2011 that will impress me more, both in terms of specs and price. The one thing I hate the most on the netbook actually is the lack of a backlit keyboard. On an tablet this is not an issue obviously.
     
 
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