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Don't get into IT
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Nov 7, 2011, 05:57 PM
 
Its shite. You have to be on-call and try to fix things at midnight, and it doesn't work, and the people who have the skills aren't on-call at the same time as you, and the connection from home to work is so fookin slow, and the documentation isn't available because we use Citrix POS, and nobody gives a flying ****.

DON'T DO I.T. !!!
     
mattyb  (op)
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Nov 7, 2011, 06:00 PM
 
To make matters EVEN worse, there's a fly in my office that loves to sit on the screen of the iMac. Why doesn't he zoom around the lightbulb, or find a corner to go die in?
     
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Nov 7, 2011, 06:14 PM
 
And the first backup failed. FFS.

Like I have nothing else to do.
     
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Nov 7, 2011, 06:19 PM
 
Condolences sir. Sounds like a helluva day.

Myself, I have set up this nifty email subscribe form, where after they submit their email, it sends them an email to confirm. The email plainly says click here to confirm. We have gotten tons of email replies saying "please confirm me" so some poor sod (me?) has to do it manually.
     
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Nov 7, 2011, 06:24 PM
 
Fookin dumb users. They ought to be rounded up with the developers and shot. My life would be soooooo much easier if nobody touched my databases.
     
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Nov 7, 2011, 08:22 PM
 
Why have a database with no data...?
     
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Nov 8, 2011, 09:01 AM
 
Originally Posted by boy8cookie View Post
Why have a database with no data...?
Because if you have data you have to have users, and we've already established that 95% of users are in dire need of a Darwin Award.
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
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Nov 8, 2011, 10:33 AM
 
Originally Posted by mattyb View Post
Fookin dumb users. They ought to be rounded up with the developers and shot. My life would be soooooo much easier if nobody touched my databases.
I as a developer would be more than happy to never touch your database or any other. I've yet to see one that was't a horrible mess and are always so slow I have to do the joins in code not in the SQL.
     
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Nov 8, 2011, 02:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by mattyb View Post
Fookin dumb users. They ought to be rounded up with the developers and shot. My life would be soooooo much easier if nobody touched my databases.
Typical IT response. If the users can't use the tools, it's IT's fault. Either IT provided them with crappy tools or crappy training, or both. Maybe not your fault, more likely your boss', but it's IT's fault, nonetheless.
     
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Nov 8, 2011, 02:29 PM
 
     
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Nov 8, 2011, 02:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by mattyb View Post
Its shite. You have to be on-call and try to fix things at midnight, and it doesn't work, and the people who have the skills aren't on-call at the same time as you, and the connection from home to work is so fookin slow, and the documentation isn't available because we use Citrix POS, and nobody gives a flying ****.

DON'T DO I.T. !!!
Welcome to my world You pretty much nailed my work life down to the nail.
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Missed 2012 by 3 days, RIP Grandma :-(
     
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Nov 8, 2011, 02:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by hayesk View Post
Typical IT response. If the users can't use the tools, it's IT's fault. Either IT provided them with crappy tools or crappy training, or both. Maybe not your fault, more likely your boss', but it's IT's fault, nonetheless.
Or often non-IT management's fault, because they won't provide the resources to IT to provide good tools or training.

Also, it's unfortunate that so many software engineers write software with UIs only other engineers can easily understand.

BTW, I work with a piece of software every day that is the epitome of crappy design. When you launch the program, it launches a second tiny window that sits in the bottom right corner of the screen. Because it launches on top, it conveniently hides the time and icons in the toolbar in XP. If you go to the toolbar, it brings it forward, which in turn hides part of that tiny window, so that not all the options are visible.

When you do launch an option, it spawns a new window. That new window allows entry of data to search the database, and when you enter a search parameter, it closes the entry window but launches yet another window to bring you the search results. When you click on one of the results of the search, it spawns another window with that result, and all the sub-options for that result. When you click on the option, it spawns another window with further secondary options. If you click on the secondary option it spawns yet another window with the result.

I just counted. To get one result, I have 6 separate and independent windows from this application open. If I close any of the result windows, all the other windows remain open.
     
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Nov 8, 2011, 02:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by hayesk View Post
Typical IT response. If the users can't use the tools, it's IT's fault. Either IT provided them with crappy tools or crappy training, or both. Maybe not your fault, more likely your boss', but it's IT's fault, nonetheless.
Wrong, some users are just stupid. How they function in life at all is beyond me. When you have to explain to some one twice a day you need to dial 8 to get a outside line, there is something wrong with the person...
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Nov 8, 2011, 04:22 PM
 
When you have to explain to someone twice a day you need to dial 8 to get a outside line, there is something wrong with the person...

Twice a day? Wow!
     
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Nov 8, 2011, 06:02 PM
 
I've taught a guy I work with how to use the scanner roughly once a month for the last 4 years or so.

First it was annoying, but now it's just funny.

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Nov 9, 2011, 01:13 AM
 
Just ask them, have you tried turning it off and on again? If they say yes, say you need to research and call them back in the morning. haha
     
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Nov 9, 2011, 01:34 AM
 
I make users wait all the on anything that isn't directly affecting production because it makes them try and figure things out themselves which has worked well. Worst mistake you can do in IT is cater to every whim. Production related things get immediate priority.
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Nov 9, 2011, 09:57 AM
 
Originally Posted by BLAZE_MkIV View Post
I as a developer would be more than happy to never touch your database or any other. I've yet to see one that was't a horrible mess and are always so slow I have to do the joins in code not in the SQL.
LOL. Have you heard of PL/SQL or T/SQL?
     
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Nov 9, 2011, 11:41 AM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
Wrong, some users are just stupid. How they function in life at all is beyond me. When you have to explain to some one twice a day you need to dial 8 to get a outside line, there is something wrong with the person...
I thought of putting in "most" but then I thought everyone would figure out that's who I'm talking about. Yeah, I admit there's always one or two that just refuse to actually think about what they're doing.
     
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Nov 9, 2011, 11:44 AM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Or often non-IT management's fault, because they won't provide the resources to IT to provide good tools or training.
OK, fair enough. non-IT management only ask for a checklist of features. "Well designed interface to allow employees to be productive" is never on that list.

Also, it's unfortunate that so many software engineers write software with UIs only other engineers can easily understand.
I attribute that to the multitude of IT colleges who basically train their students to fulfill the non-IT management's checklists and nothing more.
     
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Nov 9, 2011, 11:52 AM
 
Originally Posted by mattyb View Post
LOL. Have you heard of PL/SQL or T/SQL?
Yes. We just had to switch from an implicit JOIN in the MySQL database and move it into code because an iteration that takes less than a minute without it takes more than twenty minutes with. I don't know how much longer because we stopped it before it finished. Its only a 30k sample table against a 10 row table. I'm not a DB guru but that's crap.
     
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Nov 9, 2011, 12:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by BLAZE_MkIV View Post
Yes. We just had to switch from an implicit JOIN in the MySQL database and move it into code because an iteration that takes less than a minute without it takes more than twenty minutes with. I don't know how much longer because we stopped it before it finished. Its only a 30k sample table against a 10 row table. I'm not a DB guru but that's crap.
Agree, but I bet you chose MySQL because its free. You get what you pay for.
     
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Nov 9, 2011, 01:22 PM
 
Had the same issue in '01 with MSSQL. Just be aware that not all of us are in a position to dictate these things. Oh got concrete numbers, many to many join 1 record out of 30k to 1 out of 10, all columns in the join are indexed, 7secs.
     
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Nov 9, 2011, 04:23 PM
 

"One ticket to Washington, please. I have a date with destiny."
     
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Nov 9, 2011, 04:34 PM
 
You want it all, but you can't have it.

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Nov 11, 2011, 09:25 PM
 
mattyb,
Dude. Welcome to my world. I thought it was just me.

I'm dealing with a house of cards that has been built by non-qualified and untrained developers and designers. The basic programming principles one learns in freshman year are not even present in the systems i have been tasked with maintaining. I mean there are instances of "goto statements" type issues. Talking about SQL....this is a conversation i actually had with the person who wrote the system...

Me: There are a lot of NULL exceptions occurring in the code, why haven't you put in the appropriate checks to make sure they are handled appropriately so that the program doesn't just crash?
Her: Because there shouldn't be any NULLs, and if there are you should find out why and fix that.

Idiotic.

Couple that with internal users who do not know how to use the system and colleagues who do not comprehend that when they enter incorrect information into the system, it doesnt magically get corrected to what they "meant". Ugh.... and every-time something isn't what they expected, it's the systems fault.

I suggest people just avoid working for other non-technology based companies in IT departments. Start your own company, or work for the bigger tech focused firms.

Thats the reason I haven't been on these forums as much as I used to. When i get home i just stay away from my computer.

</end rant>
     
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Nov 11, 2011, 09:46 PM
 
Working in an independent IT support company has many of the same pitfalls and more on top. Like this:

Customer complains that a computer or network of computers is slow;
You quote them for newer faster computers or networking equipment;
They don't want to pay since the system currently works and speed is a luxury;
Weeks/months/years later they remember telling you the system was slow but don't recall turning down the fix so its all your fault.

We spent years with one customer who insisted on cutting every corner going bar none. They were running old PCs connected to an old Exchange Server, they wouldn't upgrade either of them to newer OS versions or with more RAM or boxes unless they were completely destroyed somehow. After all these years of having every single quote for every tiniest fix negotiated down, every improvement refused and various not completely essential parts (e.g. UPS) left out altogether after failure, they decided it was all our fault and canned us as provider. The new provider came in and told them they needed to do all the upgrades we had been pushing for for years and they then came back to us and asked us why these upgrades had never been done. Even better, they actually tried to claim that this quote for "necessary upgrades" should be paid for by us since we hand't done them already and should have according to the customer!
"We refused to buy this stuff from you, so now you should pay (full price instead of trade) for it because you never supplied it to us when we refused to buy it before." Absolutely barking mad.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
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Nov 11, 2011, 11:40 PM
 
How's this for justification in addition to the above mentioned reasons.

     
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Nov 12, 2011, 11:55 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
"We refused to buy this stuff from you, so now you should pay (full price instead of trade) for it because you never supplied it to us when we refused to buy it before." Absolutely barking mad.
My boss has a saying. "Sometimes it's ok to fire the customer."
     
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Nov 12, 2011, 03:25 PM
 
Yeah, we don't speak to them any more. Pity they still owe us money.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
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Nov 12, 2011, 05:38 PM
 
While this sort of shite from customers is bad, what is actually happening in IT departments is, IMHO worse. It used to be that the senior managers of IT departments or companies started at the bottom, maybe as a dev or a tape monkey or an operator - technical people. They then moved up but (on the whole) didn't forget the shite that they went through at the beginning of their careers. Now, you get people who don't really know anything technical who are in positions of power, who think that because they know a few acronyms, they can rule the world.
     
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Nov 12, 2011, 11:49 PM
 
Totally 100% agree matty

I like to also add the importance of ticket tracking, and justifying and the overall mess in IT when it comes to the power structure of IT. It gets to be a bit much that you have to log every single "help" thing you do to justify your job and at the same time have to justify why you want to order a new DVD drive which is a 25 component. Worse in central ordering setups, what in the past could be done with a 30 minute trip to a store now means waiting 2-3 days for parts being shipped from 4000km away with the shipping costing as much as the item.
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Nov 13, 2011, 06:10 AM
 
Originally Posted by mattyb View Post
While this sort of shite from customers is bad, what is actually happening in IT departments is, IMHO worse. It used to be that the senior managers of IT departments or companies started at the bottom, maybe as a dev or a tape monkey or an operator - technical people. They then moved up but (on the whole) didn't forget the shite that they went through at the beginning of their careers. Now, you get people who don't really know anything technical who are in positions of power, who think that because they know a few acronyms, they can rule the world.
Yup, ou can add that to my list of grievances as well....

My first day on the job, and my manager/supervisor tells me that he doesn't know/care much about the technical aspects of the systems. (WTF!?!?).

Makes it damn near impossible to manage expectations from the rest of the organization.
     
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Nov 25, 2011, 02:21 PM
 
So, the final weekend in Nov, and I'm on-call, working at night from home. 3 of the 4 weekends of Nov and I've been on-call. In total I've done 20 days of the month on-call.

Bet I still don't get a payrise, the management never stop going on about bad figures, even though we're working for new clients. I've even been penciled in to work the New Years weekend. Happy Happy Joy Joy.

I don't even get time to search for other jobs at work anymore - scandalous !!!
     
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Dec 9, 2011, 12:00 PM
 
Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more;

Why the **** do some people think that they should change something/configure something on a Friday afternoon? What a fookin idiot - one of my colleagues as well.

So here I am, at work instead of at my son's school eating cakes and socialising with the young mothers restoring a bloody database because he screwed up the disks. What a twat.

Don't do IT. Do art, or literature, or music.
     
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Dec 9, 2011, 12:18 PM
 
Could be worse, he could have messed it up on a Saturday causing you to come in on a Sunday
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Dec 9, 2011, 12:33 PM
 
I don't do IT any more, but this week has been a reminder of the bullshit that goes on. I had to change my password this Monday, and since then, I've had problems with the account being locked. It's not directly, though - it's one service after another, taking several hours to propagate. The hell desk basically told me to solve it myself (after bouncing me around for days), and local IT - which is quite good - didn't have the access to do anything meaningful beyond unlocking the account every now and then. I think I fixed it today (removed a Scheduled Task in Windows - apparently they store the password manually, and it is not updated when you change, so it must have kept trying to log on with the wrong password) but this evening I can't access the network remotely, so maybe not.

One upside though: the bug did NOT involve Lotus Notes, which has to be a first for the place where I work.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
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Dec 9, 2011, 03:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by mattyb View Post

Don't do IT. Do art, or literature, or music.
In other words: don’t pay your bills.
     
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Dec 9, 2011, 04:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
One upside though: the bug did NOT involve Lotus Notes, which has to be a first for the place where I work.
I'm pretty convinced that Lotus Notes is *THE* root of all evil in this world.

There wouldn't be no war, hunger or injustice w/o it.

-t
     
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Dec 9, 2011, 05:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
I'm pretty convinced that Lotus Notes is *THE* root of all evil in this world.

There wouldn't be no war, hunger or injustice w/o it.

-t
User: Oh no, my hard drive died.
IT: No worries, your mail and calendar are on the Notes server.
User: Where are my contacts?
IT: Oh yeah, they were in your names.nsf in Program Files. Sorry.
     
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Dec 9, 2011, 06:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
I don't do IT any more, but this week has been a reminder of the bullshit that goes on. I had to change my password this Monday, and since then, I've had problems with the account being locked. It's not directly, though - it's one service after another, taking several hours to propagate. The hell desk basically told me to solve it myself (after bouncing me around for days), and local IT - which is quite good - didn't have the access to do anything meaningful beyond unlocking the account every now and then. I think I fixed it today (removed a Scheduled Task in Windows - apparently they store the password manually, and it is not updated when you change, so it must have kept trying to log on with the wrong password) but this evening I can't access the network remotely, so maybe not.

One upside though: the bug did NOT involve Lotus Notes, which has to be a first for the place where I work.
I HATE I HATE I HATE LOTUS NOTES!!!! Was the happiest day of my life when we dumped it for Exchange.

Sounds to me you have a local DC, but your services are located at a central data center of the company or worse spread out to multiple locations which means the DC's at those places have to wait to be updated by your local DC. Its a pain in the ass when passwords are changed because it can take hours for everything to update.


Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
I'm pretty convinced that Lotus Notes is *THE* root of all evil in this world.

There wouldn't be no war, hunger or injustice w/o it.

-t
Totally absolutely whole heartily agree!!!
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Missed 2012 by 3 days, RIP Grandma :-(
     
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Dec 10, 2011, 07:43 AM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
I HATE I HATE I HATE LOTUS NOTES!!!! Was the happiest day of my life when we dumped it for Exchange.
The problem with Lotus Notes is that it was never intended as an email solution primarily. As some sort of application platform, it's OK, but noone uses it for that. That sort of applications are AJAX these days, so the only thing left for Notes is email/calendaring, and that's where the hate comes in. It's the "anti-Apple" email: No focus, no features removed over time (you can still use the integrated modem dialup to an email server!) and the most inconsistent interface you ever saw.

Problem is that I don't like Outlook either, and in fact, I don't want calendaring in my email at all. I want a simple email program that does nothing but email. Claris Emailer 2 was the best I ever saw, but even the email in old Netscape versions was OK. Calendaring could then be another focused app - the one in OS X is actually not too bad, except for the fake leather thing in Lion.

Originally Posted by Athens View Post
Sounds to me you have a local DC, but your services are located at a central data center of the company or worse spread out to multiple locations which means the DC's at those places have to wait to be updated by your local DC. Its a pain in the ass when passwords are changed because it can take hours for everything to update.
It's an AD domain and the DC is not local, and there are a million and one services that are connected to that to have the same password on all of them - one of them being the web proxy. What likely happened was that one of those scheduled tasks tried to access the net (it was actually a Google update task) and kept trying when it failed. Eventually this triggered the proxy to lock the account out, and this where the delay happened. This had to all DCs, and eventually to whatever server handles the Sametime logins. All other services (shared printers and folders) got their info from whatever DC they were contacting, which caused enough delay that it was really hard to figure out where it came from.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
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Dec 10, 2011, 01:14 PM
 
People shouldn't get into IT unless they've done something else first. Then at least they have some idea of how hard their clients work (when their PCs are up) AND they'll have something else to fall back on when they get tired of IT.

The best IT folks are people who know the jobs of those they're working with and end up being IT because nobody else wants to do it.
He can be fixed -- you can't.
     
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Dec 10, 2011, 03:25 PM
 
You know the funny thing is that Lotus Notes actually worked better on Mac OS then it did on Windows. It was not a bad client on OS X, it was just a horrible client on Windows.
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Dec 10, 2011, 07:08 PM
 
Those that can do, do
Those that can't fix
     
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Dec 11, 2011, 07:31 AM
 
Originally Posted by moonmonkey View Post
Those that can do, do
Those that can't fix
Those that can fix, do (and often make a lot more money doing so than the pixel jockey operating the machine).
     
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Dec 11, 2011, 09:07 AM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
Those that can fix, do (and often make a lot more money doing so than the pixel jockey operating the machine).
And these days they often make a lot less too.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
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Dec 14, 2011, 11:13 AM
 
Originally Posted by moonmonkey View Post
Those that can do, do
Those that can't fix
I understood that it was :

Those than can, do.
Those that can't, teach.

However, I know someone personally that gets to travel Business Class (or 1st Class if no Business Class available) to places like Australia, Dubai, the Seychelles and other quite nice places to visit as a teacher.
     
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Dec 14, 2011, 12:20 PM
 
It looks like turtle found a Lotus Notes hating soulmate...
     
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Dec 14, 2011, 04:22 PM
 
     
 
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