Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Mr. Average needs a new car

Mr. Average needs a new car
Thread Tools
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Standing on the shoulders of giants
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 4, 2012, 09:04 AM
 
Yes, I'm Mr. Average (house, 2 cars, 2 kids, ave income - you know the score). For the purposes of brevity I will use the word Estate when talking about a Station Wagon, Break, Combi type car.

I have a Renault Megane Estate, 2.0L (petrol) which is fine except the noise at legal motorway speeds here in France (130km/hr, ~80mph) and the town fuel consumption. The space is great, I don't want any smaller in terms of boot (trunk) size. I've done 80,000km.

I am looking at a few cars, all diesels : Ford Mondeo Estate - probably the 140 HP range, VW Passat Estate same range, Toyota Avensis - 150 HP and the Skoda Superb.

The Toyota is looking the best so far (I have no qualms about image, I'm a nearly 40 year old father of 2 after all) followed by the Passat. From what I've read, the Toyota is the quietest car for the price range, even quieter at 130km/hr than Mercs and BMWs. I like the Honda Accord Estate, but the pirce is several thousands of Euros more for less space in the boot. I'll probably have to get a new car since I won't be able to get a good price for my petrol 2.0L otherwise (petrol cars are not very popular in France).

What say those who don't drive 911s, Ferraris or M3s but are stuck in the 'average' car user bracket?
     
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 4, 2012, 09:59 AM
 
This should be a riot on a still American centric board.
     
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Baltimore, MD
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 4, 2012, 10:16 AM
 
I don't know what the European field of cars looks like, but I'm extremely happy with my 2011 Hyandai Sonata Limited. Hyundai's been doing some really great things lately, and their cars are absolutely worth look.
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Rock
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 4, 2012, 10:53 AM
 
Speaking of which I was in a new decked-out Hyundai Genesis a couple weeks ago...pretty impressive for 50 grand, let me tell you. Definitely could have been a Lexus, Infiniti or even a Merc from a look & feel perspective. The Koreans are coming on strong.
Mankind's only chance is to harness the power of stupid.
     
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Vacation.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 4, 2012, 11:03 AM
 
Skoda's your best bet ducks - VW quality for less than VW money.
Avoid Ford - they seem to have a problem making cars which last these days (trim is good, but mechanically they're shite).
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Baltimore, MD
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 4, 2012, 11:18 AM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
Speaking of which I was in a new decked-out Hyundai Genesis a couple weeks ago...pretty impressive for 50 grand, let me tell you. Definitely could have been a Lexus, Infiniti or even a Merc from a look & feel perspective. The Koreans are coming on strong.
The Genesis is pretty nice, but I wasn't too happy with the base model. A fully decked out Sonata (like mine) is about the same price as the base Genesis, but has a lot more of the features that I wanted.

Now the Equus. There's a car.
     
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Seattle, Washington
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 4, 2012, 11:28 AM
 
I have a friend in the Netherlands with a Škoda Superb estate and he loves it. He does about 65.000km a year too, so he spends quite a bit of time in it. His is the 2.0TDI.

Also, I'd look at the Honda Accord estate. It's got a great diesel and is really fun to drive.
     
Mac Enthusiast
Join Date: Dec 2007
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 4, 2012, 11:39 AM
 
Hey !

I don’t understand why you need a new car. Your current Megane milleage isn’t that much. The fuel consumption? Me also driving a 2L Turbo petrol M-Benz and I don’t complaint about the fuel, there are many advantages, your petrol Renault doesn’t make any fumes like the diesels, doesn’t lags at lower revs like those diesels, doesn’t emit dispropotionately high levels of NOx like those diesels, doesn’t break… in the end, your petrol Renault doesn’t suck. LOL Maybe you can get about €3500-4500 for it, Do you think is worth? And if the Megane is the 135HP –more or less- you are going to be dissapointed by those140HP range diesels. Yeah, at first you will notice that these cars may have the edge, but in the end, it is a low reving enigne and, after the turbo-excitement has passed, you’ll miss the petrol engine. And don’t believe that the diesel will be the primadonna of fuel comsumption in town or highway. In town is more dissapointing that you can expect, and if you trash the diesel on highroads, the milleage will be low.

This topic needs picts! All those cars you stated, are the new versions? Because you know, the passat is not that new, is just a follow-up of the previous generation.

Take a look at the new B-Class. It is much better in metal than in picts. It is lower, wider and roomier than the outgoing B-class, it also has a higher-quality interior with cues from the range-topping SLS. The seating position is about 86mm lower and more upright, and rear legroom surpass that of the S-class. Boot capacity is also up, to a commodious 666 litres. The fantastic petrol engines are units of 1.6-litre capacity and 122hp and 156hp output, turbo and direct injection. Diesels are 1.8-litre engines that make 109hp and 136hp. A seven-speed dual-clutch gearbox replaces the CVT.

You don't need diesels!!

Cheers!!
     
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Vacation.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 4, 2012, 11:46 AM
 
BHP is for girls who have pink bedrooms. Torques are where it's at.
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: North Muncietucky
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 4, 2012, 11:54 AM
 
I'm completely unfamiliar with how new vehicles are sold and serviced in France. All I can say is, when buying any car, one of my first evaluations is how easy it will be to get the thing serviced. Even with a new car, if you'd have to have to trucked 100km for service, I'd pass.
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Your Anus
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 4, 2012, 11:55 AM
 
Have you thought about a Prius?

My sig is 1 pixel too big.
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Automatic
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 4, 2012, 12:05 PM
 
There is no Hyundai Sonata here in Europe anymore, it's been replaced by the i40 which, kind of similar to the American centric Sonata.

No chance of finding a heavily discounted V60 ?? Way a better car than those listed by the O.P.

BHP is for girls who have pink bedrooms. Torques are where it's at.
I understand that doesn't imply 'you need a Diesel'. :roll eyes:
     
Games Meister
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Eternity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 4, 2012, 12:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by ort888 View Post
Have you thought about a Prius?
I'd recommend a Kindle Fire first. Less drift.
     
Moderator
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Hilbert space
Status: Online
Reply With Quote
Jan 4, 2012, 12:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by ort888 View Post
Have you thought about a Prius?
Compared to the likes of a Passat station wagon, a Prius is a tiny car.

@OP
I once rented a Ford Mondeo with a 115 hp engine and I wasn't impressed at all with it. It felt very slow and the ride was so-so. My ex gf's parents had a Passat station wagon diesel with 130 hp, now that was a zippy and comfortable car. Not zippy in the sense you'll beat a sports car, but zippy enough to accelerate quickly in city traffic and drive 200 km/h on the autobahn with almost no noise reaching the passengers' ears.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Automatic
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 4, 2012, 12:41 PM
 
Take a look at the new B-Class. It is much better in metal than in picts.
26000 € here in Spain. I wouldn't spend that in a Toyota, Ford… if the same money can get me a three-pointed star.

You don't need diesels!!
Given your Megane has done only 80000 Km. and IF you're not going to change the usage pattern, he is right, you don't need a Diesel.
     
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Vacation.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 4, 2012, 12:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by angelmb View Post
I understand that doesn't imply 'you need a Diesel'. :roll eyes:
There appears to be much talk in this thread about horsepowers. From Americans.
Now, given that Matty isn't a billionaire, and as such probably won't be able fuel up a small block Chevy at French prices in order to gain the appropriate quantity of torques required for good progress in a country which has corners, a diesel is the way to go.

Horsepowers don't matter at all until you're above 100 MPH.

Edit: Here's why you need a diesel in France...

Skoda Superb Estate 1.8 TSI 160 PS
38.7 mpg (combined cycle)
8.52 miles per litre
Cost per litre: 1.49
20,000 miles = € 3,497.65

Skoda Superb Estate 2.0 TDI 140 PS
51.4 mpg (combined cycle)
11.32 miles per litre
Cost per litre: 1.36
20,000 miles = € 2,402.82

Difference: € 1,094.83
That's the insurance and a couple of services covered.
( Last edited by Doofy; Jan 4, 2012 at 12:57 PM. )
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Automatic
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 4, 2012, 01:37 PM
 
Sorry, but that doesn't mean his car is going to be scrapped after 20,000 miles. I would like to know how old his current Megane is, so we can know its mileage per year. That's key, anything else is kind of babbling.

Be aware of this: unless his next car gets the mileage that e.g. imitchell's friends does, 60K/year is a good reason to go for a Diesel, he will end paying more that those 1094 Euros to fix engine issues.

I am honest about it, I don't like Diesel engines, meaning that if after 20,000 miles I would save just 1000 euros, I would go with a Petrol instead. But that's secondary as we're not talking about my next car, it is just that buying a Diesel without looking further than mpg or cost per liter is a mistake. And a big one.
     
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: in an audi hatchback
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 4, 2012, 01:40 PM
 
diesels are cool.

Get an old audi.
     
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: in an audi hatchback
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 4, 2012, 01:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
I'd recommend a Kindle Fire first. Less drift.
anyone who wants to be me, can be me.
     
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Vacation.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 4, 2012, 01:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by angelmb View Post
Sorry, but that doesn't mean his car is going to be scrapped after 20,000 miles. I would like to know how old his current Megane is, so we can know its mileage per year. That's key, anything else is kind of babbling.
I was taking 20,000 as an average (which it generally is for a working family man), since we don't know how many miles per year.

Originally Posted by angelmb View Post
I am honest about it, I don't like Diesel engines, meaning that if after 20,000 miles I would save just 1000 euros, I would go with a Petrol instead. But that's secondary as we're not talking about my next car, it is just that buying a Diesel without looking further than mpg or cost per liter is a mistake. And a big one.
If I'm honest about it, I don't like engines under 3.5 litres. My daily drive is a petrol V8 which gets 12 MPG. But we're not talking about my drive, we're looking for a new car for Matty.
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 4, 2012, 03:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
There appears to be much talk in this thread about horsepowers. From Americans.
Now, given that Matty isn't a billionaire, and as such probably won't be able fuel up a small block Chevy at French prices in order to gain the appropriate quantity of torques required for good progress in a country which has corners, a diesel is the way to go.

Horsepowers don't matter at all until you're above 100 MPH.
Once you're above about 25mph you can select gearing to make power and torque is no longer of primary importance for making good progress.
     
Professional Poster
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Just west of DC.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 4, 2012, 03:57 PM
 
Passat.
     
Professional Poster
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: The Intertube
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 4, 2012, 07:30 PM
 
get a turbo diesel something wagon.
     
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: Jan 2012
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 4, 2012, 08:10 PM
 
I drive a Subaru w/petrol engine. Gas mileage isn't all that great but it's been pretty trouble free and its all wheel drive makes for incredibly good stability and traction. Subes are known for reliability.
I'd really like a Subaru w/diesel engine. It's been available in Europe for a while but not in the states yet....maybe sometime this year.
Anyway, I'd say it's worth checking out.

SUBARU | SUBARU BOXER DIESEL
     
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: 888500128, C3, 2nd soft.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 4, 2012, 08:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
I'd recommend a Kindle Fire first. Less drift.
You can't be serious.

Try throwing it at a corner and watch it skid!
     
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: 888500128, C3, 2nd soft.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 4, 2012, 08:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
Edit: Here's why you need a diesel in France...

Skoda Superb Estate 1.8 TSI 160 PS
20,000 miles = € 3,497.65

Skoda Superb Estate 2.0 TDI 140 PS
20,000 miles = € 2,402.82

Difference: € 1,094.83
That's the insurance and a couple of services covered.
The way it works here in Germany is that you need to rock around 15-20,000 km per year for the tax difference to be worth it for a diesel (they have WAY higher tax), and the advantage is decreasing as diesel creeps closer to regular petrol in price.
     
mattyb  (op)
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Standing on the shoulders of giants
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 5, 2012, 09:57 AM
 
Thanks for all the responses. Having probs with the quoting so apologies that my responses don't follow peoples quoted posts.

Our 2nd car is a Hyundai Getz and the dealer was/is really good. I'll look at the i40 SW.

I read that Skodas are noisy at 130km/hr. I'll ask for a test drive. Not just from what you said Doof, but I reckon that I'll skip the Ford Mondeo.

Honda Accord Estate is too expensive here in France, like 8000€ more in some cases.

I need to change the Megane while I can still get a bit of money for it. If I pass the 100,000km mark, then it will be even harder to sell. France is a diesel buying country and (so far) nobody wants to takle it in part exchange for a 2nd hand car. I'm not the Merc B-class type of person. Maybe if I had loads of money, I'd get a flashier car, but I'm not one of the types that actually gives a shit about image or what others think. I personally think that people buy Mercs more for the image than the actual quality/reliability etc. Just MHO mind.

Servicing will be easy 90% of the time for any make of car - I work near an area that has a garage for every car manufacturer under the sun. Getting a non-French car sorted during the French holidays is another issue entirely.

Prius is too small. The boot is anyway.

I rented a Golf Blue Motion Diesel during Christmas and was most impressed with the engine. A few have recommended the Touran since the Passat is so large/long. I shall test drive them both.

Got the Megane new in Nov 2004. I've done more than 80,000 in 7 years and one month. Ave in France is ~15,000km per year. So I'm under what most would consider the threshold for a diesel.

Subaru is too expensive.
     
Senior User
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Aarhus, Denmark
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 5, 2012, 02:50 PM
 
Why not a french car -- Peugeot 308 or 508, Citroën C5?

Is a Alfa 159 sportswagon over the budget? Otherwise that would be my choice!
     
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: 888500128, C3, 2nd soft.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 5, 2012, 04:06 PM
 
I was looking at the Citroën Jumpy/Peugeot Expert a while back.

Those is some nice family cars.
     
mattyb  (op)
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Standing on the shoulders of giants
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 6, 2012, 12:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by Jens Peter View Post
Why not a french car -- Peugeot 308 or 508, Citroën C5?

Is a Alfa 159 sportswagon over the budget? Otherwise that would be my choice!
The 508 is expensive : the cheapest is 25,000€ (which has nothing) and then its 36,000€ for the next one up - petrol ones since I'm getting hassle from colleagues for even thinking of a diesel now.

308 doesn't have such a good reputation.

C5 looks pretty good but again its not cheap if you want a bit of equipment.

Yes the Alfa is over the budget, I was hoping to not go over 28,000€

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
I was looking at the Citroën Jumpy/Peugeot Expert a while back.

Those is some nice family cars.
A colleague has one and said that if I didn't like noise at motorway speeds I wouldn't like it.
     
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: 888500128, C3, 2nd soft.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 6, 2012, 12:33 PM
 
That really depends upon the version. The different packages have pretty different insulation, though of course, a diesel is always gonna be noisier.
     
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Cambridge, UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 9, 2012, 05:05 PM
 
You really just need to get a shortlist together and take them for a drive.
I think I remember the 1.6 Megane's used to scream along at 4000rpm when doing 70/75mph (that and the panoramic sunroof whistle), I would have thought the 2.0 would have better gearing ratios.
Are you still on your first set of key cards? Has anyone put the drivers seat back too far screwed up the airbag system yet?
     
mattyb  (op)
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Standing on the shoulders of giants
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 9, 2012, 05:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by seanc View Post
You really just need to get a shortlist together and take them for a drive.
I think I remember the 1.6 Megane's used to scream along at 4000rpm when doing 70/75mph (that and the panoramic sunroof whistle), I would have thought the 2.0 would have better gearing ratios.
Are you still on your first set of key cards? Has anyone put the drivers seat back too far screwed up the airbag system yet?
IIRC my 2.0L does 3500rpm for 130 km/hr (80mph). Noisy. I don't have a sunroof.

Yes, first set of key cards. I have the seat right back. Apart from driving into a wall (or getting a service), how does one verify if the airbag system is screwed up?

Trying to find car reviews that measure sound at 130. There are a few but then when I want to compare, there is no data.
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 9, 2012, 05:15 PM
 
Speaking of new cars, can anyone "lend" me £100k or so?

Eleanor Mustang is for sale - BBC Top Gear

Doofy, you must have an old pair of trousers lying about with some change you won't miss….?
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Cambridge, UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 9, 2012, 05:25 PM
 
Haha. Maybe the Meganes that stay in France are of better build quality than the ones that come to the UK.

Common points of failure I've noticed on two different 2005/2006 cars, the solder joints for transponder coil in the keycards break = non starting car. £80+ for a new one.
Putting the drivers seat back all the way (UK side) damages the cabling/connector of the airbag system, putting the light on permanently and gives you a ratchet sounding steering wheel.
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Great White North
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 9, 2012, 07:51 PM
 
Roads play a important part of the noise too. When im at 130 here at home in my 2012 Focus on asphalt pavement its pretty quiet. To quiet actually. When I hit the concrete sections of the i5 in the US the noise is pretty loud. And this was true for a Nissan I rented once for a trip to Seattle and my old Prelude too. Though the Prelude was a lot louder then the Nissan or the Focus at home, it was still a lot louder on the concrete.

Anyways if you can get a Focus in France, I know Holland and Germany have them, I would look at that car. Its a pretty well rounded car for features, space and safety. Great fuel economy too.
Blandine Bureau 1940 - 2011
Missed 2012 by 3 days, RIP Grandma :-(
     
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Land of Enchantment
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 9, 2012, 11:35 PM
 
Do you have Honda CRV turbodiesels in France? The petrol version is excellent.
     
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Vacation.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 10, 2012, 02:15 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Speaking of new cars, can anyone "lend" me £100k or so?

Eleanor Mustang is for sale - BBC Top Gear

Doofy, you must have an old pair of trousers lying about with some change you won't miss….?
Not for a crappy Ford.
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
Mac Elite
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Macfreak7
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 17, 2012, 03:19 AM
 
IMO, VW has unfortunately lost the plot. Aside from the Polo/Golf the driving dynamics on their cars seem to be leaning more towards the Toyotas as opposed to the sporty feel they used to offer in the late 90s to the early 00s.

We recently bought a 1.8TSI Skoda with the DSG gearbox, and I'd suggest this without a hitch from the options you've presented. Extremely comfortable ride, not too fancy. However, handling calls for lower profile tires (only cause I switched from a BMW). Pretty much all else is totally functional and understated. A 4x4 combi would be pretty sweet, even tho. I personally prefer the sedan.
That 2.0TDI seems like a nice torquey engine even.
     
   
Thread Tools
Forum Links
Forum Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On
Top
Privacy Policy
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:43 AM.
All contents of these forums © 1995-2015 MacNN. All rights reserved.
Branding + Design: www.gesamtbild.com
vBulletin v.3.8.8 © 2000-2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2