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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > WWDC MMXIII prognosis: unified iOSXI; end of cats

WWDC MMXIII prognosis: unified iOSXI; end of cats (Page 2)
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Jun 10, 2013, 03:55 PM
 
second question: "expansion will be external" well it's going to suck adding a new blah lacie drive on the desk next to that thing.
     
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Jun 10, 2013, 03:59 PM
 
"Expansion will be external"
The graphics cards better be upgradeable.


Also, iOS 7 is looking really nice.

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Jun 10, 2013, 04:05 PM
 
Well I guess I'll be stuck with my aging iPhone 3G for another 6 months...
     
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Jun 10, 2013, 04:07 PM
 
It's a bigger, purple Mac Mini with zero internal expansion (except maybe RAM, graphics chip is integrated).

No, no, no, NO!!! Screw `em, I'm done with desktop Macs.
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Jun 10, 2013, 04:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
I thought OSX: Grumpy Cat was rather clever.

tabs: cool.

tags: meh.

Was maverick an engadget joke?
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Jun 10, 2013, 04:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
It's a bigger, purple Mac Mini with zero internal expansion (except maybe RAM, graphics chip is integrated).

No, no, no, NO!!! Screw `em, I'm done with desktop Macs.

Yeah, maybe this is what they (Gruber, I think?!) meant by this WWDC being polarizing...

Apple has long abandoned the whole server thing, maybe that was a stroke of brilliance given the presence of the cloud in small business, so I guess this makes the target audience for the Pro creative professionals, but wouldn't creative professionals want to be able to attach a lot of storage, upgrade their graphics cards, eventually processor, etc. without having to overpay or hope for a Thunderbolt version, and without having all of this stuff laying around externally?

Like you said, if somebody wants a cute little box they could get a Mac Mini. This is just a faster Mac Mini, right? Were these creative professionals really demanding something small?
     
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Jun 10, 2013, 04:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
It's a bigger, purple Mac Mini with zero internal expansion (except maybe RAM, graphics chip is integrated).

No, no, no, NO!!! Screw `em, I'm done with desktop Macs.
I don't get this.

PCI is a fast bus. T-bolt is a fast bus. What's your problem?
     
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Jun 10, 2013, 04:46 PM
 
Re: can't innovate my ass

Is a new form-factor (which was suggested years ago) for a dying model of computer "innovation"

Pretty sure when people say "innovate" about Apple, they mean creating an entirely new product category.
     
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Jun 10, 2013, 04:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I don't get this.

PCI is a fast bus. T-bolt is a fast bus. What's your problem?

Right now are all of the add-ons that existed as PCI cards available as Thunderbolt? Same price?

Maybe this is just a case of too-fast-too-soon, but if nothing more there is an argument to be had for not having 23094832094 external doo-dads. Do creative professionals really demand small little boxes?
     
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Jun 10, 2013, 05:00 PM
 
Same price? This is Apple, remember?

You can get a PCI to T-bolt boxen.
     
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Jun 10, 2013, 05:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I don't get this.

PCI is a fast bus. T-bolt is a fast bus. What's your problem?
My problem? I hate external devices. If I want to add to or upgrade my machine, I pop in a new component. I don't want stacks of peripherals connected. The only cables running to my main PC are power, video, and ethernet, and to me that's 1 too many. I'd go Wi-Fi but it still isn't as quick as Cat 6.
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Jun 10, 2013, 05:06 PM
 
What problem was Apple trying to solve here? That's what I don't get...

I mean, again, were these creative professionals demanding small-as-possible? A small Mini makes sense I guess, since many of these are used as mini-appliances, but why the Pro?
     
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Jun 10, 2013, 05:10 PM
 
What are all those video and multimedia people going to put their videos on? I'm assuming there's no DVD drive. Uploading to Vimeo doesn't always cut it.

Unless the plan was to make modular purple peripherals that snap onto the top of that thing?
     
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Jun 10, 2013, 05:13 PM
 
Thunderbolt is your PCIe bus. If you want to upgrade the video card, you connect one to the Thunderbolt port. Likewise with storage.
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Jun 10, 2013, 05:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
My problem? I hate external devices. If I want to add to or upgrade my machine, I pop in a new component. I don't want stacks of peripherals connected. The only cables running to my main PC are power, video, and ethernet, and to me that's 1 too many. I'd go Wi-Fi but it still isn't as quick as Cat 6.
Well, I have everything racked, so I'm not seeing extra cables.

All I have coming out of the back of my rack at the moment is:

AC
Cat6
T-bolt to the (video) monitor
AES-EBU to my meter
2 XLRs to my (audio) monitors
     
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Jun 10, 2013, 05:14 PM
 
Nothing is going on top of the Mac Mini Pro, that's where the air vent is.

As a video engineer for a post production operation, I am not impressed by what I've seen. It's hilarious that they made something even less rack friendly than the current (now previous) design. The only redeeming factor could be the price, or a price drop on TB peripherals (both of which are highly unlikely).
     
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Jun 10, 2013, 05:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
What are all those video and multimedia people going to put their videos on? I'm assuming there's no DVD drive. Uploading to Vimeo doesn't always cut it.

Unless the plan was to make modular purple peripherals that snap onto the top of that thing?

USB 3 based DVD burners?
     
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Jun 10, 2013, 05:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
What are all those video and multimedia people going to put their videos on? I'm assuming there's no DVD drive. Uploading to Vimeo doesn't always cut it.

Unless the plan was to make modular purple peripherals that snap onto the top of that thing?
Physical media? Eww.
     
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Jun 10, 2013, 05:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
What problem was Apple trying to solve here? That's what I don't get...

I mean, again, were these creative professionals demanding small-as-possible? A small Mini makes sense I guess, since many of these are used as mini-appliances, but why the Pro?
At least it's already shaped like a trash can, that'll save buyers some trouble in a couple years. See? It's so annoying it's made me fall off the "no-sarcasm wagon". I don't know of any pro users who were saying, "You know, I'd really like a Mac Pro with no internal expansion. Why can't I just have chains of wiring running all over my desk?"

Hey Apple, the world is moving to all-wireless solutions, didn't you get the memo? Dumbasses.
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Jun 10, 2013, 05:22 PM
 
Also, looking at the design and the ability to remove the case with the button, I have to wonder how not-upgradable those video cards are. It could just be a non-standard form factor, but if it's connected over PCIe (even if it's a non-standard connector) and can be removed, there's no reason they can't be upgraded later.
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Jun 10, 2013, 05:23 PM
 
The case design is clever from an engineering standpoint, but, to me, this is a case of functioning form over functionally useful...
     
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Jun 10, 2013, 05:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
At least it's already shaped like a trash can, that'll save buyers some trouble in a couple years. See? It's so annoying it's made me fall off the "no-sarcasm wagon". I don't know of any pro users who were saying, "You know, I'd really like a Mac Pro with no internal expansion. Why can't I just have chains of wiring running all over my desk?"

Hey Apple, the world is moving to all-wireless solutions, didn't you get the memo? Dumbasses.
This is just bizarre.

All the AV pro users I know have no cables on their desk because they rack everything.

While I do lots of things with my gear, what takes up the most horses for me is After Effects, which is CPU intensive. If I'm building a server farm, all I want are cores. Why should I buy four extra PCI slots and four giant hard drive bays?
     
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Jun 10, 2013, 05:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by olePigeon View Post
Also, looking at the design and the ability to remove the case with the button, I have to wonder how not-upgradable those video cards are. It could just be a non-standard form factor, but if it's connected over PCIe (even if it's a non-standard connector) and can be removed, there's no reason they can't be upgraded later.
Can it be? Maybe. Will it ever be offered? Not bloody likely. Others have tried proprietary GPU upgradeability in the past and they failed, miserably.
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Jun 10, 2013, 05:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
This is just bizarre.

All the AV pro users I know have no cables on their desk because they rack everything.

While I do lots of things with my gear, what takes up the most horses for me is After Effects, which is CPU intensive. If I'm building a server farm, all I want are cores. Why should I buy four extra PCI slots and four giant hard drive bays?
GL racking the Barney Package.
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Jun 10, 2013, 05:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
GL racking the Barney Package.
Wut?
     
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Jun 10, 2013, 05:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
Can it be? Maybe. Will it ever be offered? Not bloody likely. Others have tried proprietary GPU upgradeability in the past and they failed, miserably.
Well, a couple weeks ago Saphire announced Mac Edition video cards, and just now EVGA announced Mac Editions of their GTX cards. Seems to me it's definitely a possibility.

Also, seems like an opportunity. With the new Mac Pro being so much smaller, just sell a slick looking chasis that's the same size as a standard ATX case. Put a couple 5 1/4" drive bays, SAS drive bays, and PCIe slots one end, and a dock for the Mac Pro on the other end. Secure it. Now you have a computer the same size as a standard ATX PC with only power, video, and ethernet coming out the back, but with all the expansion from the original Mac Pro.
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Jun 10, 2013, 05:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
GL racking the Barney Package.
Wut?
He must be British. You have to work out the rhyme for it to make sense... GL racking, ok. Um. That's... trimming hedges. Barney is Barney Rubble, rhymes with trouble. Package is... OMG, HE NEUTERED HIMSELF WITH THE HEDGE TIMMER! SOMEONE CALL A DOCTOR!
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Jun 10, 2013, 05:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
This is just bizarre.

All the AV pro users I know have no cables on their desk because they rack everything.

While I do lots of things with my gear, what takes up the most horses for me is After Effects, which is CPU intensive. If I'm building a server farm, all I want are cores. Why should I buy four extra PCI slots and four giant hard drive bays?
If you are building a racked server farm you aren't going to want external devices either.
     
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Jun 10, 2013, 05:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by olePigeon View Post
Well, a couple weeks ago Saphire announced Mac Edition video cards, and just now EVGA announced Mac Editions of their GTX cards. Seems to me it's definitely a possibility.

Also, seems like an opportunity. With the new Mac Pro being so much smaller, just sell a slick looking chasis that's the same size as a standard ATX case. Put a couple 5 1/4" drive bays, SAS drive bays, and PCIe slots one end, and a dock for the Mac Pro on the other end. Secure it. Now you have a computer the same size as a standard ATX PC with only power, video, and ethernet coming out the back, but with all the expansion from the original Mac Pro.
Wait, they announced cards that will not work with the new Mac Pros, just the half decade old machines? I'm assuming they're PCIe?
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Jun 10, 2013, 05:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
This is just bizarre.
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Wut?
You're going to play it like that?
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Jun 10, 2013, 05:58 PM
 
The new mac pro pisses me off. Too integrated, it will be the next Cube. They claim the videocards will be upgradeable, but really they won't be. Also, what is the point of making something so tiny when you need to have 50 ****ing things plugged into it? External hard drives, external this, external that... and seriously, ZERO front facing USB ports? Yeah, it's not like people need to use thumb drives. ****.
     
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Jun 10, 2013, 05:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
If you are building a racked server farm you aren't going to want external devices either.
Which I don't need in my situation, that's my point.

The After Effects rendering client needs CPU cores and enough space to hold the assets being worked on at that moment. Not a peripheral is sight.
     
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Jun 10, 2013, 06:03 PM
 
These mac mini pros aren't going in a rack. They take in air from the bottom and shoot it out the top... and the ports are on the back. That doesn't work in rack. You can't put these on their side to fit a rack air flow because of the ports.

This is not a pro machine.
     
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Jun 10, 2013, 06:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
You're going to play it like that?
I'll retract the bizarre comment. It isn't worth clarifying. My apologies.

I honestly have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to GL racking the Barney package, and Google doesn't either.

The way I want to play it is I'm admitting my ignorance, and asking you to help remedy that.
     
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Jun 10, 2013, 06:05 PM
 
I think you need to be googling purple dinosaurs, not Mayberry deputies.

Then again, I don't think you want to google anything involving package.
     
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Jun 10, 2013, 06:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
Wait, they announced cards that will not work with the new Mac Pros, just the half decade old machines? I'm assuming they're PCIe?
Yes, PCIe. No, they don't work on the new Mac Pro. I'm guessing they didn't expect such a radicle change in form factor. Kinda sucks for them.
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Jun 10, 2013, 06:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by boy8cookie View Post
These mac mini pros aren't going in a rack. They take in air from the bottom and shoot it out the top... and the ports are on the back. That doesn't work in rack. You can't put these on their side to fit a rack air flow because of the ports.

This is not a pro machine.
They won't rack horizontally, anyway. I've seen adapters that rack the old Mac Pro vertically, why can't you do the same with the new Mac Pro mini? It's certainly a lot smaller than the old one.
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Jun 10, 2013, 06:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by boy8cookie View Post
These mac mini pros aren't going in a rack. They take in air from the bottom and shoot it out the top... and the ports are on the back. That doesn't work in rack. You can't put these on their side to fit a rack air flow because of the ports.

This is not a pro machine.
Isn't it a little early to declare what you can and can't do with it?

As I alluded to earlier, the cheese grater is rackmountable, you just ned a saw.
     
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Jun 10, 2013, 06:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by Stogieman View Post
The graphics cards better be upgradeable.
Doubt it. But I don't think many Mac Pro users ever upgraded their cards anyway, even though it's possible now.
     
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Jun 10, 2013, 06:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by olePigeon View Post
They won't rack horizontally, anyway. I've seen adapters that rack the old Mac Pro vertically, why can't you do the same with the new Mac Pro mini? It's certainly a lot smaller than the old one.
Airflow is the reason you can't mount the mac mini pro vertically. When you rack mount an "old" Mac Pro (whether you do it vertically or horizontally) the airflows in the front and out the back (and the ports are on the back).

Originally Posted by subego View Post
Isn't it a little early to declare what you can and can't do with it?

As I alluded to earlier, the cheese grater is rackmountable, you just ned a saw.
I'm not saying the device won't work while on it's side (I'm sure it will), it just won't fit into a rack like that because of the airflow design and the ports. Also, it's f**king round.
     
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Jun 10, 2013, 06:18 PM
 
Mac Pro, case on and case off, if any of the tech heads can spot what's what in it.
Next-generation Apple Mac Pro eyes-on at WWDC 2013 (video)

It'll be much easier if you just comply.
     
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Jun 10, 2013, 06:19 PM
 
How tall is it?
     
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Jun 10, 2013, 06:21 PM
 
Why not mount them going deep into the rack with the top vents exposed in the front?
     
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Jun 10, 2013, 06:23 PM
 
Third-party manufacturers... start your laser cutters!
     
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Jun 10, 2013, 06:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by boy8cookie View Post
These mac mini pros aren't going in a rack. They take in air from the bottom and shoot it out the top... and the ports are on the back. That doesn't work in rack. You can't put these on their side to fit a rack air flow because of the ports.

This is not a pro machine.

Agreed, which again raises the question of why go this route? It might work well for some creative professionals, but they could have cast a wider net fairly easily - it was low hanging fruit, right?
     
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Jun 10, 2013, 06:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by boy8cookie View Post
Airflow is the reason you can't mount the mac mini pro vertically. When you rack mount an "old" Mac Pro (whether you do it vertically or horizontally) the airflows in the front and out the back (and the ports are on the back).
Forced air and vents built into the rails. What's the problem? I'm sure there'll be a solution. I'm not sure why we're all making decisions at the moment. Why don't we wait and see?
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Jun 10, 2013, 06:33 PM
 
Honestly, as important as the rack deal is, for my purposes, the more important question for me is how loud it is at full load.
     
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Jun 10, 2013, 06:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
How tall is it?
9.9" high, 6.6" across.

It'll be much easier if you just comply.
     
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Jun 10, 2013, 06:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Why not mount them going deep into the rack with the top vents exposed in the front?
The top vents? The whole top is a vent. I can't really visualize what you're trying to explain here, but I'm not sure why you're trying to defend this design. What are the pros of having a small desktop machine? If this device was 6" taller and was square instead of round, how would that effect how you use it on a day to day basis? It wouldn't.

This is all around poorly thought out. This will go the way of the cube. The air intake on the bottom is gonna suck up dust and the fan will push it into the air, it's the opposite of an air purifier. The Apple Air Dustifier.
     
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Jun 10, 2013, 06:34 PM
 
The new Mac Pro: "The answer to the question no one was asking."

Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
I think you need to be googling purple dinosaurs, not Mayberry deputies.

Then again, I don't think you want to google anything involving package.
You are smart. I like you.
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