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Detroit is completely bankrupt. (Page 2)
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Clinically Insane
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Jul 24, 2013, 08:19 PM
 
They're sort of getting jobs. What they're going to get is a ton of 30-hour or less positions without healthcare, retirement, maternity leave, or child care, payed at Federal minimum wage, in an at-will state that will fire your ass if you get pregnant or sick.

They'll then complain that all the *insert minority group here* are taking all the jobs they don't want to work.
"…I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than
you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods,
you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F. Roberts
     
Clinically Insane
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Jul 24, 2013, 08:30 PM
 
By the way, if you want to see the future of the labor and manufacturing markets, check out North Carolina. Siemens is bringing over Germany's unbelievably awesome vocational school program. I've mentioned this in the past, and I'm a big fan of Germany's educational system. Siemens is setting up a U.S. headquarters over there and a vocational school. They'll help pay (and in some case, completely pay) for your education and to get your degree, with a nice job waiting for you at their company when you graduate.
"…I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than
you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods,
you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F. Roberts
     
Mac Elite
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Jul 24, 2013, 11:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a View Post
If I pay a person to manage my investments(i dont really have any at this point in my life) and they find a way to make me even more, chances are I too would pay them a bonus for doing so….
South Carolina gets the jobs, the income and the increased tax revenue from the newly created jobs from Boeing. …
Cheers
You missed the point. Boeing is laying off their world class, experienced design engineers in Seattle and hiring newbies in South Carolina to support production and garner a short term profit which enables their top management to collect bonuses before they exit with their loot. Military aircraft design has been transferred as well eliminating the transfer of expertise (and making Airbus happy as they considered the combination an unfair government subsidy). Yes, I want my investment manager to consider the long term instead of riding a short term boom to his own advantage. ( My conservative investments have an excellent return as I am my own manager. According to a recent article in the WSJ, Seattle has a large number of retired low level millionaires created from these and Microsoft employees.)
The Social Security Trustee reports talking about a future unfunded liability is another example of arithmetic versus mathematics. They include only those with ages from 21-64 and those 65 and older excluding those under 21. When the children of “undocumented immigrants” have their future Social Security contributions added, the long term deficit becomes negligible.
sam
     
Clinically Insane
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Jul 25, 2013, 12:35 AM
 
Originally Posted by olePigeon View Post
By the way, if you want to see the future of the labor and manufacturing markets, check out North Carolina. Siemens is bringing over Germany's unbelievably awesome vocational school program. I've mentioned this in the past, and I'm a big fan of Germany's educational system. Siemens is setting up a U.S. headquarters over there and a vocational school. They'll help pay (and in some case, completely pay) for your education and to get your degree, with a nice job waiting for you at their company when you graduate.
Yep.

I've graduated from one of the Siemens vocational programs in Germany. Very good programs.
Probably as good as many 4 year college degrees in the US (because 2 years of that are complete BS anyways.)

Perfect example how companies will take care of education if it benefits their needs.
Government funded education in the US has not come up with anything innovative in a long time.

-t
     
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Jul 25, 2013, 08:52 AM
 
Originally Posted by SVass View Post
Unfortunately, some use an old political "projected" unfunded federal liability and an old federal "current deficit" and Detroit naysayers use the claim by the biased bankruptcy manager for the pension unfunded deficit. All of these projections are political bs.
The problem with your analysis of course is that these aren't projections, this is reality for Detroit -- it's bankrupt not from projections, but from the reality of $90 billion in debt and no means of reconciling their outlays. It's really very simple. The government as the largest employer in the City paid exponentially more in income and bennies than the private sector, but the private sector is the only aspect of an economy that actually produces wealth, government does not. With an increased taxation on private industry and those employed by it while distributing that money to the unemployed and employed by government -- you lose the only entities capable of actually creating wealth and leaving it exclusively to those who absorb it. Detroit.

The CBO now admits that if immigration is reformed our future "projected" federal liability will be far lower.
You understand how the CBO works right? They crunch numbers specific members of Congress give to them -- there is no independent analysis. In this case the Gang of 8 submitted the data to be compiled into the report. You would have to believe that reality is absolutely schizophrenic if you were to accept CBO conclusions.

For example, can you give me a time, one time; that the CBO was correct in its analysis? I'll wait right here.

Do you understand the mechanism used to arrive at the deficit figure for Immigration Reform? Unfortunately, the entire mathematical exercise here is predicated on pure gibberish. Ex: Per CBO, enactment of S. 744 would lead to slightly higher productivity of both labor and capital because the increase in immigration—particularly of highly skilled immigrants—would tend to generate additional technological advancements, such as new inventions and improvements in production processes.

This is assuming the influx of new immigrants will all of a sudden be more highly skilled. We don't know this, we can't know this. They offer no baseline or means of substantiating this notion, we're just supposed to lap it up. And let's talk about the CBO's projection over the first 10 years of increased unemployment and decreased wages at a time of anemic economic recovery. Maybe we shouldn't eh?

Immigration reform also grants a means of citizenship to the more than 10 million illegal residents, but you don't see much on them in the CBO analysis. Why? Because they're highly UNskilled and this just doesn't fit neatly into the "new" highly skilled immigrant workforce narrative that's supposed to magically bolster technology and innovation. It also cannot account for the continued impact of illegal immigration, reduced in this analysis by just 25%. i.e. 75% of the current influx of illegal immigrants continues.

The CBO figures tout GDP growth. Mere growth in GDP means nothing, the operative calculation would be growth in GDP per capita which is NOT in the CBO's projections. Remember -- government spending is included in GDP. If the government were to print $50 trillion and immediately infuse that into the economy, GDP would explode. That doesn't = Good. It equals more. Period.

The GAO now says that ObamaCare is reducing our current deficit.
It's counting the four years of taxes that have already been collected in advance of the bill's first year of enactment!

Per GAO: Federal health care spending is expected to continue growing faster than the economy. In the near term, this is driven by increasing enrollment in federal health care programs due to the aging of the population and expanded eligibility. Over the longer term, excess cost growth (the extent to which growth of health care spending per capita exceeds growth of income per capita) is a key driver. Slowing the rate of health care cost growth would help put the budget on a more sustainable path. There is general agreement that technological advancement has been the key factor in health care cost growth in the past, along with the effects of expanding health insurance coverage increasing income, but there is considerable uncertainty about the magnitude of the impact that the different factors will have on future health care cost growth.

YAYY!!! Wait.

GAO analysis concludes that Obamacare will add $6.2 Trillion dollars to the deficit over the longer-term.

Greenspan once said that if our annual growth rate were slightly higher, we would run a long term surplus. (Let me use his projections and I can
I'll let you finish your thought here.

The original argument about "unions" causing Detroit's failure was nonsense just as is the argument that union demands cause manufacturing companies to outsource or move jobs in order to survive. CEOs move jobs to lower wage states and countries because they get a personal bonus (and a corporate tax break) for short term improvements in the value of their company's stock. Earlier, I pointed out that top Boeing executives have essentially publicly admitted this in defending their move to South Carolina.
sam
No, it's a combination of "white-flight" and the fact that private enterprise and its workers have gone to States with pro private industry growth. It's really very simple. When the government competes against the private industry using the collective wealth of the city / State / Country - you end up with the fleeing of private industry. Union bloat, public sector bloat, taxation, and highly unskilled labor force have left Detroit to only those who absorb wealth, not create it. The government model and by extension the model of our current administration are manifest in Detroit. This is what happens, plain and simple.
ebuddy
     
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Jul 25, 2013, 11:06 AM
 
Originally Posted by ebuddy View Post
The problem with your analysis of course is that these aren't projections, this is reality for Detroit -- it's bankrupt not from projections, but from the reality of $90 billion in debt and no means of reconciling their outlays. It's really very simple. The government as the largest employer in the City paid exponentially more in income and bennies than the private sector, but the private sector is the only aspect of an economy that actually produces wealth, government does not. With an increased taxation on private industry and those employed by it while distributing that money to the unemployed and employed by government -- you lose the only entities capable of actually creating wealth and leaving it exclusively to those who absorb it. Detroit.
We have seen it happen in recent history all around the world. The latest example being France with the massive outflow of capital when the socialists got into power.

I hate how governments (and especially in Australia now) seem to think they can create jobs. I too can pay a person to dig a hole and fill it back up, there... i created a job. The idea isn't jobs, its *productive* jobs. Not token jobs at the expense of productive private sector jobs. IMHO

@SVass
Boeing, nor the aerospace industry is a "static" entity. It is constantly changing. I cannot claim to know the intricacies of any of these businesses; but I can assume with some degree of confidence that it is in their vested interest to survive and stay open for business. And if that means shifting company resources from one department to the other, that's their call to make (After all, it's their capital to invest, not mine). (Just as if one year decide I invest in my education, and the next I invest in a house. There's no rule that says i should perpetually invest in one thing.).

Regarding your Boeing vs Airbus statements. So what you suggest is force American customers to buy locally made stuff(Boeing) at inflated prices, to fund inflated labor costs by artificially limiting a free market? I see that as protectionist and not in the long term interests of the customers. (Of course those few who stand to benefit would see the benefits clearly).
     
Clinically Insane
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Jul 25, 2013, 02:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a View Post
Regarding your Boeing vs Airbus statements. So what you suggest is force American customers to buy locally made stuff(Boeing) at inflated prices, to fund inflated labor costs by artificially limiting a free market? I see that as protectionist and not in the long term interests of the customers. (Of course those few who stand to benefit would see the benefits clearly).
Good catch.

The absurdity becomes more clear if you pciture the same thing happening in Europe (Airbus), Brasil (Embraer) and Canada (Bombardier).

What could possibly go wrong if all of them shut out competition by mandating buying local ?

-t
     
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Jul 26, 2013, 10:48 AM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Good catch.
The absurdity becomes more clear if you pciture the same thing happening in Europe (Airbus), Brasil (Embraer) and Canada (Bombardier).
What could possibly go wrong if all of them shut out competition by mandating buying local ?
-t
Yes, let us talk about absurdity! I suggested that separating the design engineers for the commercial and military aircraft geographically by Boeing was a mistake. I note that the light-weight graphite skin material now used on the 777 and 787 were developed in ovens designed to manufacture the top secret B-2 bomber. You appear to be suggesting that we do not buy American designed and made military products. Yes, we should let the Russians and other Europeans design our military airplanes and China design our secure computer operating systems just as Iran let Germany design and build their nuclear material separation centrifuges.

Yes, it has been demonstrated that newborn children of our poor, undocumented immigrants cannot be educated and employed to enter our workforce and contribute towards our social security liability. We should immediately send the descendants of our prior huddled masses back Europe where they came from.
(Yes, the CBO only considered the impact of enactment of a single bill on our deficit/debt while assuming that all other current laws will remain unchanged which was not an attempt to project to our real future when an evaluating immigration reform bill.)

By all means, support competition.
sam
     
Clinically Insane
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Jul 26, 2013, 11:56 AM
 
Originally Posted by SVass View Post
Yes, let us talk about absurdity! I suggested that separating the design engineers for the commercial and military aircraft geographically by Boeing was a mistake. I note that the light-weight graphite skin material now used on the 777 and 787 were developed in ovens designed to manufacture the top secret B-2 bomber. You appear to be suggesting that we do not buy American designed and made military products.
Uhm, the context of the previous discussion suggested commercial airliners, not military. Military has (of course) different dynamics.

Originally Posted by SVass View Post
Yes, it has been demonstrated that newborn children of our poor, undocumented immigrants cannot be educated and employed to enter our workforce and contribute towards our social security liability.
WTF ? Buying American will fix education of undocumented immigrant's children ?

-t
     
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Jul 28, 2013, 05:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Uhm, the context of the previous discussion suggested commercial airliners, ...
WTF ? Buying American will fix education of undocumented immigrant's children ?

-t
My words were quite specific as to military.
The contributions fom future earnings of the immigrant children are not included. Again I point out that projections for future annual deficits and long term debt assume only current law (which is why the house will vote on immigration after they vote money matters as they will continue to spread FUD).
Sam
     
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Jul 29, 2013, 08:06 AM
 
Originally Posted by SVass View Post
My words were quite specific as to military.
The contributions fom future earnings of the immigrant children are not included. Again I point out that projections for future annual deficits and long term debt assume only current law (which is why the house will vote on immigration after they vote money matters as they will continue to spread FUD).
Sam
FUD... yeah, we've heard that line before. That was the line used against conservatives warning about an inevitable bankruptcy from decades of failed monetary and labor policies in Detroit. Some things are neither uncertain nor doubtful having been affirmed from time immemorial, but the fear of reality is certainly enough to send the left into denial by embracing CBO pipe dreams; finding surpluses in deficits and skill among the unskilled.
ebuddy
     
Clinically Insane
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Jul 29, 2013, 12:58 PM
 
LOL, yeah, you get the same reply if you say that Chicago is going to go the same route as Detroit.

It can not happen

-t
     
Clinically Insane
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Jul 30, 2013, 02:26 PM
 
     
Clinically Insane
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Jul 30, 2013, 02:30 PM
 
Shoved in their faces ?

LOL, maybe if he had used a big bucket of K-Y, there's wouldn't be any questions about what this means.

-t
     
Shaddim  (op)
Clinically Insane
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Jul 30, 2013, 02:31 PM
 
That's Vile, really. Reminds me though, I need to get my Caligula BR back from a friend of mine, he's had it for a month now.
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