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Trying to wrap my head around Android (Page 16)
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Clinically Insane
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Jul 24, 2014, 02:22 PM
 
You're seriously trying to compare a totally lo-fi mechanism designed to check whether people have paid admittance with motorola's solution to a problem that has been more or less solved?

You're really arguing that Moto is on a track that could not be called, even with the best of good will and intentions, anything but ludicrous?
     
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Jul 24, 2014, 02:55 PM
 
How has it been solved? Credit and debit cards? Something like this means you don't even need to carry a wallet, just keep your ID and payment info stored in the "tattoo". NFC from a phone or a watch? Both of those solutions are more cumbersome.

I can understand the aversion to this, there's a great deal of superstition clouding the introduction of such a thing ("the mark of the beast"), but after seeing what a lot of people attach and install in and on their bodies, all in the name of fashion, this is pretty tame. Look for this type of tech to be the norm in 5-10 years.
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Jul 24, 2014, 03:03 PM
 
Touch ID.

That "Tattoo" is, from how I understood the promo video, intended to identify yourself TO THE PHONE, not to any third party.
     
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Jul 24, 2014, 04:04 PM
 
Touch ID has a pretty high first time failure rate and often requires multiple swipes, and that's only made worse if your hands aren't pristine. Knock codes are better, I use them myself, but even they aren't perfect.

Also, this is Google not just Motorola, as you can see in the video ("Google engineers"). Unlocking a phone is a more innocuous baby step to warm people up to a more important product coming out ~2016, stylish NFC-type tattoos for ID and commerce, and that's a placeholder for eventual subdermal chipping... what they've been using and testing on pets for the last decade.
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Jul 24, 2014, 04:21 PM
 
"Swipes"? You're confusing Touch ID with Samsung's nonfunctional imitation?
     
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Jul 24, 2014, 05:33 PM
 
I said swipe but you're right, it's a touch, either way it doesn't always work the first time for me (others have had the same issues), no matter how many times I've tried to train it. The print "pad" areas of my fingers are scarred and often stained, which probably complicates things too.
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Jul 24, 2014, 06:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
I can understand the aversion to this, there's a great deal of superstition clouding the introduction of such a thing ("the mark of the beast"), but after seeing what a lot of people attach and install in and on their bodies, all in the name of fashion, this is pretty tame. Look for this type of tech to be the norm in 5-10 years.
Count me right out, call me a luddite if you wish but sub-dermal implants are where I draw the line with technology.
     
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Jul 24, 2014, 09:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
The Mark of the Beast
Double down
Mankind's only chance is to harness the power of stupid.
     
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Jul 24, 2014, 10:07 PM
 
It's a solution looking for a problem.

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Jul 25, 2014, 09:38 AM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
I said swipe but you're right, it's a touch, either way it doesn't always work the first time for me (others have had the same issues), no matter how many times I've tried to train it. The print "pad" areas of my fingers are scarred and often stained, which probably complicates things too.
I'd rather that companies invest in improving finger print scanners rather than waste it on NFC »tattoos«. The latter is a technical solution looking for a problem rather than the other way around.

Edit: Starman beat me to it.
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Jul 25, 2014, 11:54 AM
 
Why are you guys so critical ?
I'm sure Samsung is already starting their copy machines
It's going to be perfect for their customers.

-t
     
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Jul 25, 2014, 11:56 AM
 
I'll just respond the same way my nephew does when I say something like that.

"Old people..."

Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Why are you guys so critical ?
I'm sure Samsung is already starting their copy machines
It's going to be perfect for their customers.

-t
Psstt. It isn't Samsung.
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Jul 25, 2014, 12:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
Psstt. It isn't Samsung.
Psst. Not yet

-t
     
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Jul 31, 2014, 10:36 AM
 
     
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Jul 31, 2014, 01:04 PM
 
Isn't that almost every OS ever, not counting pre 10.3 OSX?
     
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Jul 31, 2014, 01:16 PM
 
I don't think the arguments in The Register hold water, they attribute the slow down to a lack of optimization. New releases of iOS tend to change the usage pattern, e. g. more apps and more sophisticated apps run side-by-side. Some of the iCandy of iOS 7 relies on beefier GPU hardware, though, so here, I think, an OS upgrade led to less smooth animations on the iPhone 4. But I don't think it's due to Apple not optimizing their software, it's that the iPhone 4 is redlining just driving the UI. I also wonder whether the slow animations in iOS 7 have contributed to the perception that the device is slow.
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Jul 31, 2014, 02:37 PM
 
But this is the model.

You don't let faster hardware run the old code faster. You write new code which takes advantage of the faster hardware by doing more things with it. We pretty much stay at the same place, speed-wise.

It's similar to how computers letting you do things faster is supposed to lead to more free-time. It never does. You use the time savings to do more things.
     
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Jul 31, 2014, 03:06 PM
 
OS X 10.4 ran more smoothly on my G3 iMac than 10.3 did, 10.6 was a pretty big improvement in some ways, and Mavericks runs WAY better than Mountain Lion did on identical hardware.

Also, point-upgrades for iOS often improved performance especially on older hardware, sometimes quite dramatically.
     
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Jul 31, 2014, 03:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
You don't let faster hardware run the old code faster. You write new code which takes advantage of the faster hardware by doing more things with it. We pretty much stay at the same place, speed-wise.
The reason for the »slow down« given in the article is a lack of optimization, and not asking your machine to do more. Quite the contrary, Apple optimizes certain aspects of iOS very heavily because they are obsessed that all animations should run at 60 fps, for instance. The fact that you can now periodically run processes in the background, e. g. to check whether new podcasts are available, means (like you say) that the machine is doing more work. And also that new features change the way we use iOS devices.
Originally Posted by subego View Post
It's similar to how computers letting you do things faster is supposed to lead to more free-time. It never does. You use the time savings to do more things.
I perfectly agree with you here, but that is not the premise of the article.
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Jul 31, 2014, 03:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
OS X 10.4 ran more smoothly on my G3 iMac than 10.3 did, 10.6 was a pretty big improvement in some ways, and Mavericks runs WAY better than Mountain Lion did on identical hardware.

Also, point-upgrades for iOS often improved performance especially on older hardware, sometimes quite dramatically.
You're correct. I should have set it at 10.4.

I'm not noticing huge differences in ML vs. Mav. Not saying they aren't there, just I haven't noticed them.

You are also correct about point revisions. I was thinking more in terms of major releases. These, and the features they bring, drive the hardware market. That's what I meant about it being "the model".
     
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Jul 31, 2014, 03:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
The reason for the »slow down« given in the article is a lack of optimization, and not asking your machine to do more. Quite the contrary, Apple optimizes certain aspects of iOS very heavily because they are obsessed that all animations should run at 60 fps, for instance. The fact that you can now periodically run processes in the background, e. g. to check whether new podcasts are available, means (like you say) that the machine is doing more work. And also that new features change the way we use iOS devices.

I perfectly agree with you here, but that is not the premise of the article.
I gotcha. I was more remarking about the "water is wet" type lack of relevant insight. I didn't get to the part where they were wrong about why water is wet.
     
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Jul 31, 2014, 04:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I gotcha. I was more remarking about the "water is wet" type lack of relevant insight. I didn't get to the part where they were wrong about why water is wet.
With that I agree. I just find the sensationalist pitch of the article weird: it seems to me that the author is posing the rhetorical question of whether it is better to never get upgrades (because then your hardware isn't overly taxed ) or to allow upgrades but for »too long«.

Also, I think stupid things like slow animations (and I mean slow as in deliberately chosen to take too long but run smoothly at 60 fps) can make it appear that your system is slower than it actually is.

Regarding Mountain Lion vs. Mavericks, I have seen a huge boost in battery life, my 13" Retina manages a transcontinental flight with battery to spare (ok, I'm just typing stuff, but still). Whatever 10.9 does, it works for me.
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Jul 31, 2014, 05:14 PM
 
Since the latest update my girlfriend's 5 has been running pretty terribly, but she does tend to run an insane amount of apps at the same time. Upgrading to KitKat on my GS4m has made everything run much smoother, battery life is a wash, but RAM usage is drastically down from 4.2.2 which is baffling. Hard to gauge OSX performance with my iMac over time since I'm now in the post-SSD phase where everything still feels quick. Leopard to SL was a welcome boost, 10.1 to 10.2 on my G4 was very noticeable and the difference, usability-wise, between 10.1 and 10.4 was staggering. ML is pretty much the end for my iMac, not that it really matters because this machine is still fast and stable as hell.
     
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Aug 8, 2014, 10:35 PM
 
BTW, if you're wondering where I buy my phones, it's here: 28mobile.com Your Google Device Expert, Wholesale and Retail Outlet of Unlock Sim Free Phones

Their CS and support is the best, bar none.
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Aug 19, 2014, 09:04 AM
 
Finally got my hands on a Moto 360 last week and there's nothing jinky of flaky about it, unlike all others I've tried. Yeah, smart watches have finally arrived and the 360 is an awesome little device.
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Aug 19, 2014, 01:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
Finally got my hands on a Moto 360 last week and there's nothing jinky of flaky about it, unlike all others I've tried. Yeah, smart watches have finally arrived and the 360 is an awesome little device.
If your NDA is like my NDA then I can't comment on a watch that I might or might not have seen or that might not even exist - although, would I have seen it I would have been most impressed with it.

(I know there's preview models out there and they do look awesome)
     
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Aug 19, 2014, 05:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by Phileas View Post
If your NDA is like my NDA then I can't comment on a watch that I might or might not have seen or that might not even exist - although, would I have seen it I would have been most impressed with it.

(I know there's preview models out there and they do look awesome)
No NDA this time. I bought a pair of them from, umm, someone in a distant land whom I've known for a while.
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Aug 26, 2014, 01:32 PM
 
So... I won't be buying an iPhone 6. Got hold of a OnePlus One invite today, and got the 64GB ordered. Not sure how quick the delivery is, so it's time to get clued up on Android some more, and find a case.

It'll be much easier if you just comply.
     
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Aug 28, 2014, 01:09 PM
 
https://www.yahoo.com/tech/samsungs-...003614174.html

Not sure if I'm impressed. Also, it has its own 3G connection (lawl) so you have to pay for a second line.

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Aug 28, 2014, 09:50 PM
 
I'm not impressed by much of anything Samsung does. I just don't understand how they have the bottomless funds to throw so much random crap at the wall, hoping anything sticks.
     
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Nov 11, 2014, 03:35 AM
 
Nexus 9 arrived and I like it, and surprisingly, it seems faster than the iPad Air 2.
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Nov 11, 2014, 09:34 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Nexus 9 arrived and I like it, and surprisingly, it seems faster than the iPad Air 2.
A friend of mine just received his, same observation. A very nice, very fast tablet.
     
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Nov 11, 2014, 06:34 PM
 
The Nexus 9 is a peach of a tablet. While I'm not as in love with the visual aesthetics of it (I don't think it's a beautiful design), its performance, handleability, and dimensions place(s) it at the apex of current tablets being sold. Aside from it being very fast, everyone expected this and it doesn't disappoint, it also happens to be the easiest of the larger tablets to handle, it's very light (>1oz lighter than the Air 2) and the slightly rounded back is quite grippy. Also the 4:3 aspect ratio is a welcome change compared to most larger Android tabs, once you get a little past 8" the widescreen format just doesn't seem to work anymore, in terms of general use, they're simply too wide.

Then there's Android 5.0, aka. Lollipop. To most it will "merely" look like a cosmetic change, but it really does pull the whole OS together and gives it grownup global theme, and overall improved smoothness of operation, that Android has very much needed. It just works, giving the OS a pretty face to go along with its superior flexibility.

What's great: OMFG performance (desktop-like speed from a slate), best in class ergonomics and form factor, has the best of Android OS right out of the box, fantastic wifi reception, great sound for a tablet, did I mention how fast it is?
What's kind of "meh": it doesn't have a "premium" look, its IPS panel doesn't seem to be quite as nice as the one on the Air 2 (it's still better than most others), battery life is merely average, priced higher than most were expecting
What I don't like: a max of only 32GB or storage, no microSD slot (which is typical for a Nexus device), only 2GB of RAM when other flagship Android tablets sport 3GB+

So, to sum up, if you want the overall best Android tablet, this is it. There's nothing better out right now, and nothing better coming out in the near future. The Nvidia Shild Tab is fine, but it's simply a lesser example of the Nexus 9. However, all that aside, if I wanted something just for media consumption (more or less) I'd still prefer the Galaxy Tab S, because; its Super AMOLED is still unmatched for black level and color, the form factor is better for video, and it does have expandable storage via microSD.

Oh, and there's really not anything about the Nexus 9 that I feel should entice the Apple faithful away from the iPad Air, in most of the ways that matter, there are more similarities than there are differences... but you know, now that I think about it, that in itself could be the single greatest threat that Apple's ever encountered in this segment. Hmm...
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Nov 11, 2014, 06:48 PM
 
The one reason I am staying with Apple for tablets is the app ecosystem. While for phones it is on par, for tablets the Apple offering is still far superior, especially when the device isn't just used for content consumption.
     
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Nov 11, 2014, 08:32 PM
 
A threat? To the iPad?

No.

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Nov 11, 2014, 10:36 PM
 
Certainly not for you, but I already covered that.
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Nov 12, 2014, 11:38 AM
 
Originally Posted by Phileas View Post
The one reason I am staying with Apple for tablets is the app ecosystem. While for phones it is on par, for tablets the Apple offering is still far superior, especially when the device isn't just used for content consumption.
With the Nexus 9 and Lollipop, it seems to be getting very close.

My experience with the Nexus 7 and sheer boredom nearly had me ordering a Nexus 6 instead of the iPhone 6 Plus. I stayed with the 6+ solely because of the investment in apps.
     
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Nov 12, 2014, 02:26 PM
 
I did the same thing, but moving back to Apple from the Nexus line. iOS 8 addressed many of my complaints, so did the larger screen size. So far I am very happy with the 6+
     
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Nov 12, 2014, 02:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by Phileas View Post
I did the same thing, but moving back to Apple from the Nexus line. iOS 8 addressed many of my complaints, so did the larger screen size. So far I am very happy with the 6+
Yeah, I haven't regretted my decision (about five days into using the 6+ now).

I forgot to mention the camera. Considering that about 75% of the photographs I have of my son are taken using my iPhone, the camera had better be pretty darn good. I'm too leery of these Android cameras.

Check out Topolsky's tweet:

https://twitter.com/joshuatopolsky/s...15342112378880

1: Nexus 6. 2: Nexus 5. 3: iPhone 6. You decide.

     
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Nov 12, 2014, 03:15 PM
 
His watch is the least ugly on the Nexus 6 photograph.

That was easy.
     
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Nov 12, 2014, 03:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
I forgot to mention the camera. Considering that about 75% of the photographs I have of my son are taken using my iPhone, the camera had better be pretty darn good. I'm too leery of these Android cameras.
That was my justification for jumping for the 6, except my number is closer to 98%. The low light ability has me pretty impressed, too:



Also, I was Skyping with my wife via my Galaxy S5 and was pretty disgusted with how my face looked stretched and pale. Switched to Facetime via my iPad 2 and it was a totally different world. Back in proportion and with good color.
     
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Nov 12, 2014, 05:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Side note: I love this.
     
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Nov 13, 2014, 06:39 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
What's great: OMFG performance (desktop-like speed from a slate)
This interesting, because it has two of nVidia's new Denver cores, which I haven't seen a good analysis of yet. I would very much like to see some competition in this market - ARM's own cores haven't been competitive since the A9, and their pipeline looks unconvincing (A53 is wimpy, A57 is server-focused and likely to be too hot, A12/A17 is 32-bit only and looks like a stopgap). Unfortunately the only reviews I can find do not include real benches, and the Guardian one talks about stuttering (which is likely storage-related).
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
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Nov 13, 2014, 08:12 AM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
This interesting, because it has two of nVidia's new Denver cores, which I haven't seen a good analysis of yet. I would very much like to see some competition in this market - ARM's own cores haven't been competitive since the A9, and their pipeline looks unconvincing (A53 is wimpy, A57 is server-focused and likely to be too hot, A12/A17 is 32-bit only and looks like a stopgap). Unfortunately the only reviews I can find do not include real benches, and the Guardian one talks about stuttering (which is likely storage-related).
There are only a few benchmarks which are, to my eyes, a little inconsistent: some make the Denver-based K1 faster than the A8X while for other benchmarks, it is slower. Arstechnica has run just Geekbench and Anandtech only has basemark scores. The Denver-based K1 does not seem to benefit from running Android in 64 bit mode (unlike iOS), there isn't even a consistent speedup. And Denver seems much faster than Cyclone+ integer-wise, but in the floating point department, it is beaten by the latter by a good margin. In Anandtech's browser benchmarks (where the browser also factors in), Denver is far slower (with one exception where it is neck-and-neck). Even graphics-wise the results are a bit of a wash: in synthetic tests K1 is faster, but there are plenty of other tests where they're about as fast (and Apple's A8(X) are even pulling ahead in some). What seems clear, however, is that the A8X is running much cooler and doesn't throttle for a very long time.

In any case, A8X and the Denver-based K1 are in a class of their own and I hope Anandtech 2.0 does its cpu architecture forensics on Denver so that we understand the performance characteristics better. Just running Geekbench and Basemark is not exactly confidence-inspiring.
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Nov 13, 2014, 11:39 AM
 
There was an update that went down the pipe after most of the articles were written (they were pre release samples), most likely drivers and optimizations, because word is that Lollipop wasn't taking full advantage of the K1. Why Google does that sort of thing is anyone's guess, but they did the same thing with Tegra 4 devices and 4.4.
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Nov 13, 2014, 02:00 PM
 
I'm open to trying an Android some day. But iOS's UX is prettay good. Prettay, prettay good.

I like how they've built an ecosystem that's so interconnected. I like that when I download a new song it ends up on my iPad and Mac (if I want). When I write a new note it ends up in my Mail. Data accessibility is great across iOS devices.

I also like how I took my new iPhone out of the box and intuitively knew how to use it. That's just amazing.

But I haven't had an Android so I don't know how they compare. I'm assuming they lack the Zen-like simplicity and focus of Apple prods, because I think you'd have to be as insanely OCD as Jobs to make that happen.
     
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Nov 13, 2014, 02:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
There was an update that went down the pipe after most of the articles were written (they were pre release samples), most likely drivers and optimizations, because word is that Lollipop wasn't taking full advantage of the K1. Why Google does that sort of thing is anyone's guess, but they did the same thing with Tegra 4 devices and 4.4.
There are two separate issues here: optimizations of the software platform and the measuring the hardware performance as purely as possible. The former, for instance, may help with browser benchmarks (which also has a tangible effect for the user), but it's more difficult to disentangle hardware and software from one another (e. g. when you compare the A8X running Safari and the Denver-based Tegra K1 running Chrome).

In any case, given that we haven't seen a CPU design like the Denver core since the demise of Transmeta, it'll be interesting to see whether the guys from Anandtech can figure out its performance and performance/watt characteristics.
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Nov 13, 2014, 05:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
In any case, given that we haven't seen a CPU design like the Denver core since the demise of Transmeta, it'll be interesting to see whether the guys from Anandtech can figure out its performance and performance/watt characteristics.
This - and at the same time, Android 5 changes the runtime. I can imagine that there will be performance regressions to figure out for some time yet.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
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Nov 17, 2014, 08:43 AM
 
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
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Nov 17, 2014, 09:08 AM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
This - and at the same time, Android 5 changes the runtime. I can imagine that there will be performance regressions to figure out for some time yet.
True. There are a lot of moving parts in this discussion, each of which contributes. For instance, it's not clear why the K1 doesn't seem to benefit from running in 64 bit mode. But the reason could be due to the new Java runtime or due to the peculiar architecture which optimizes away the inefficiencies of ARMv7.

PS Thanks for the link explaining memory usage on Android, I was looking for something like that for a while.
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