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Trying to wrap my head around Android (Page 4)
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starman  (op)
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Sep 3, 2013, 06:39 PM
 
Question about Cyanogen, and this could be coming from complete ignorance lack of research.

How does the mod handle device drivers? Are they built into the build for the specific device or do you have to install them afterwards?

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Sep 3, 2013, 07:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
Nobody's forcing anyone here to buy one. Its existence still has validity, even if someone here doesn't have any interest in buying it.
That's what I was looking for.
     
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Sep 3, 2013, 08:38 PM
 

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Sep 3, 2013, 09:31 PM
 
For those who care, it should have been Key Lime Pie.
     
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Sep 3, 2013, 09:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
For those who care, it should have been Key Lime Pie.
Yeah, I've been hearing KLP for months.

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Sep 3, 2013, 09:55 PM
 
Google's a ****ing sellout!
     
starman  (op)
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Sep 3, 2013, 09:58 PM
 
If the world of Android isn't confusing enough....

I've been spending the last two hours reading about the S4, unlocking, flashing ROMs, stock, etc.

What I found is this:

Best Buy is selling the i9500 unlocked. Its spec page says it supports 4G LTE. (link)

However, the i9500 does NOT really support 4G LTE, only 3G.

Also, since the i9500 is an international version, I cannot for the life of me figure out which stock ROM it would have. If you go to this page, there's no USA-based ROM, and the Android forums are a DISASTER so I can't ask anyone, or find, which ROM the US uses. Between the myriad of ads, the broken English, false info, and in-fighting, I can't find what I want to know.

So, it looks like I'll be getting an S4 from Verizon or something. Now I'm off to research how unlockable that puppy is.

EDIT: Wow. Now I find this page that says the i9500 DOES support 4G LTE. http://techcentralz.com/samsung-gala...upport-lte-4g/

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Sep 3, 2013, 11:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
Question about Cyanogen, and this could be coming from complete ignorance lack of research.

How does the mod handle device drivers? Are they built into the build for the specific device or do you have to install them afterwards?
Third-party ROMs generally use a custom kernel with drivers compiled in.

What this means is that either the drivers are open source by the hardware manufacturer (e.g. for the SOC or the wifi adapter), or someone reverse-engineered the drivers from the stock kernel.

For some drivers - particularly WIMAX, in my own experience - it's impossible to reverse-engineer them to the point that the driver can be compiled for another version of Android. So, unless the carrier or manufacturer releases stock firmware that uses a newer version of Android, a ROM might not be able to support all the hardware.

I've only seen this with WIMAX radios and front-facing cameras, and the latter is just a matter of time before it's fixed. The WIMAX thing is a nonissue since no new phones have that feature - everything uses LTE now for 4G networks.

For a brand-new phone, the custom ROM is going to have all the functionality of the stock ROM, because all the drivers are already available in the stock ROM for whatever version of Android is current. I also wouldn't be all that surprised if this becomes less of an issue over time, as technology develops and the hardware used in Android phones becomes even more commodity than it is now.
     
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Sep 3, 2013, 11:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
That's what I was looking for.
Hey everyone, look! Another completely pointless self-indulgent pseudo-"contribution" from Laminar! That never happens around here!

Originally Posted by starman View Post
If the world of Android isn't confusing enough....

I've been spending the last two hours reading about the S4, unlocking, flashing ROMs, stock, etc.

What I found is this:

Best Buy is selling the i9500 unlocked. Its spec page says it supports 4G LTE. (link)

However, the i9500 does NOT really support 4G LTE, only 3G.

Also, since the i9500 is an international version, I cannot for the life of me figure out which stock ROM it would have. If you go to this page, there's no USA-based ROM, and the Android forums are a DISASTER so I can't ask anyone, or find, which ROM the US uses. Between the myriad of ads, the broken English, false info, and in-fighting, I can't find what I want to know.

So, it looks like I'll be getting an S4 from Verizon or something. Now I'm off to research how unlockable that puppy is.

EDIT: Wow. Now I find this page that says the i9500 DOES support 4G LTE. Samsung Galaxy GT-I9500 can support LTE 4G | TechCentralz dot com
Does that unlocked model from BB have an unlocked bootloader, or is it just carrier-unlocked? I'm not all that familiar with how to get around the bootloader locking on the Verizon and AT&T models since mine is Sprint, but it MIGHT pose some problems.

The wikis and forums from both xda-developers.com and the official cyanogenmod site should have the most comprehensive information on how to flash the Verizon S4.
     
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Sep 3, 2013, 11:35 PM
 
I don't know. I can't find any info on it. And man, xda devs is a mess of a site.

I think I'll just go with the Google Play Store S4 edition when I eventually pull the trigger.

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Sep 3, 2013, 11:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
Hey everyone, look! Another completely pointless self-indulgent pseudo-"contribution" from Laminar! That never happens around here!
Still waiting for that PM where you can explain your issue with me and we can settle our differences instead of you filling up threads with garbage sarcasm and insults.
     
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Sep 4, 2013, 02:34 AM
 
Didn't anyone tell Google Kit-Kats suffer from fragmentation?
     
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Sep 4, 2013, 02:39 AM
 
This thread isn't helping to make Android an option for me.

I need a business tool, not a hobby.
     
starman  (op)
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Sep 4, 2013, 03:03 AM
 
I didn't create this thread to talk about business decisions, but to understand why people give a rat's ass about something I thought was junk.

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Sep 4, 2013, 03:05 AM
 
And...do you now?
     
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Sep 4, 2013, 07:17 AM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
This thread isn't helping to make Android an option for me.

I need a business tool, not a hobby.
I don't want to come across impolitely, but the issues here seem to be with a certain add-on to Android that starman is using, not Android itself.

I'm too old to fcuk around with ROMS, my setup is very basic and the Nexus 4 does everything that I could ask of it. I found Samsung + Apple integration horrible (Kies sux) but I don't have the same issues with the Nexus.
     
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Sep 4, 2013, 08:01 AM
 
So the takeaway here (and sorry if this is a thread-hijack of sorts, but I'm reading this thread with a similar question as starman's) is that, unless you want to futz around with rooting and stock ROMs and drivers and all that stuff, the only really good option on the Android market is the Nexus line?

That seems to be the only line that gets regular upgrades, is decent hardware, and isn't suffocated by bloatware.

Is this correct?
     
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Sep 4, 2013, 10:32 AM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
I don't know. I can't find any info on it. And man, xda devs is a mess of a site.

I think I'll just go with the Google Play Store S4 edition when I eventually pull the trigger.
I'll see what I can find out for you. XDA is a mess - it's been overrun with people who don't know what they're doing, so there's a lot of static you have to filter out.

You were looking at getting a Verizon S4, correct?

Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Still waiting for that PM where you can explain your issue with me and we can settle our differences instead of you filling up threads with garbage sarcasm and insults.
Pot, meet kettle.

You do realize that in several threads recently, you've contributed absolutely nothing to the discussion and simply pop in to spew out random shit that nobody cares about, right?

You're like a drunk guy at a party who runs around the room interrupting people's conversations to talk about what you can fit in your butthole.
     
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Sep 4, 2013, 10:59 AM
 
I recently upgraded my Verizon mifi. I was thinking about taking it back and getting the S4 in its place and using it as a hotspot when I needed to.

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Sep 4, 2013, 11:02 AM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
So the takeaway here (and sorry if this is a thread-hijack of sorts, but I'm reading this thread with a similar question as starman's) is that, unless you want to futz around with rooting and stock ROMs and drivers and all that stuff, the only really good option on the Android market is the Nexus line?

That seems to be the only line that gets regular upgrades, is decent hardware, and isn't suffocated by bloatware.

Is this correct?
For regular updates without messing around, yes, the Nexus line.

If you want a phone that's got all the bells and whistles, the S4. The HTC One doesn't have a card slot. I looked at the MotoX, I can't remember why I didn't want it.

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Sep 4, 2013, 11:06 AM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
And...do you now?
I get it now, yes. Android itself does a lot of things that iOS can't. App interoperability is HUGE. The ability to access a file system is HUGE. I love the idea of widgets, and iOS' look hasn't really evolved in years. The hardware and software is starting to stagnate. So yeah, I'm starting to 'get it'.

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Sep 4, 2013, 11:06 AM
 
Who likes Kit Kats?

My sig is 1 pixel too big.
     
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Sep 4, 2013, 11:08 AM
 
Well, this sucks.

Apparently at the end of July, Verizon released an OTA updated for the S4 that blocks the previous exploit used to install an alternate kernel on the device (which, from what I can see so far, was how you could get around the locked bootloader).

Right now, there's no way to get passed the locked bootloader, which means there's no way to install a custom ROM on the Verizon S4.

It IS, however, rootable, which will enable to turn on the wifi hotspot for free and do things like freeze system apps (this just means "turning off" preinstalled applications so that they don't actually run when the phone boots).

Info on rooting is here: [GUIDE] Root for Verizon Galaxy S4 ***VRUAME7 Build Only!*** - xda-developers

It's been a month, so it's possible that there's been a newer version pushed OTA by Verizon, but so far what I've found indicates that ME7 is the most current build for Verizon S4s.

Also: the whole "M**" thing refers to the last three alphanumeric digits of the Android build number of the official carrier firmware for the S4.
     
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Sep 4, 2013, 11:13 AM
 
Originally Posted by ort888 View Post
Who likes Kit Kats?
KitKats are delicious. Especially the dark chocolate ones.

I like eating them layer by layer.
     
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Sep 4, 2013, 11:21 AM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
So the takeaway here (and sorry if this is a thread-hijack of sorts, but I'm reading this thread with a similar question as starman's) is that, unless you want to futz around with rooting and stock ROMs and drivers and all that stuff, the only really good option on the Android market is the Nexus line?

That seems to be the only line that gets regular upgrades, is decent hardware, and isn't suffocated by bloatware.

Is this correct?
It really depends.

Android is bit like OS X - it's pretty on the surface (and custom overlays like TouchWiz, MotoBlur, and Sense are to make it prettier), but it's also powerful under the hood - if you want to access that power.

A stock Galaxy S4 is a pretty great device. I used the stock firmware for the first few days after I got my phone. It's better than Sense, in my opinion, and the gallery and music apps are definitely the best stock ones I've used. For someone who wants a smartphone that "just works" for browsing the web, making phone calls, texting, playing games, using social networking apps and sites, it's great. The screen is amazing. The device has top-of-the-line hardware and as a result is very fast and snappy. LTE is ridiculously fast compared to 3G (my last phone had WIMAX, but I never used it because it killed the battery and only actually connected to 4G in a select few areas around DC).

If you're a normal user, there's no reason or need to do any "power user" stuff to the phone, like rooting or flashing a custom ROM.

If you're a power use and you want to do extra nerdy things with your phone, Android serves that purpose just as well. You have a real Linux kernel to work with, and custom ROMs all come with Busybox, which gives you a number of command-line utilities you'd expect out of any Linux or Unix system.

It's not the fault of Android or even Samsung that Verizon has locked down their version of the S4 so much. That's 100% Verizon's fault.
     
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Sep 4, 2013, 11:21 AM
 
I read about that ME7 issue just before I went to bed last night. Verizon pushed that on owners without allowing confirmation, correct?

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Sep 4, 2013, 11:26 AM
 
I'm not sure.

On all my Android devices, you have to confirm the installation of a firmware update. I'd be surprised if VZW forced it without confirmation, since a firmware update can put your phone out of commission for five to ten minutes (which can be a problem if your house is on fire and it's your only phone).

It looks like development is moving quickly on ME7, though. FWIW, that's a big reason to get an S4 if you want to hack it - it's a super popular device, so as soon as a carrier blocks a known exploit for rooting and flashing, people immediately start working on a new exploit. It's a lot like how the iOS jailbreaking community deals with Apple's attempts to stop jailbreaking.

There's also this project that just started to make it possible to boot custom ROMs on a Verizon bootloader-locked S4:

[RECOVERY LOCKED/ME7] Safestrap Recovery v3.5x [WIP DISCUSSION] - xda-developers

I don't think it'll be long at all before this latest OTA update is bypassed.
     
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Sep 4, 2013, 11:29 AM
 
Played with the WatchON app last night. It assumes all I have is a TV and a cable box. It doesn't even bother to ask if I have a receiver. It also just starts blasting out codes for a specific manufacturer without asking what model. So, in the end, all it does is turn my projector on, completely ignores my receiver (Denon), and uses the cable box.

I tried some other app which did allow me to add a receiver and turned my Denon on, but didn't bother with any specific input settings.

Thankfully, I can write my own app

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Sep 4, 2013, 11:31 AM
 
Thanks on the ME7 info. I found a screenshot showing it wasn't pushed in the background.

Verizon’s Samsung Galaxy S4 Now Receiving OTA Update (Updated) – Droid Life

You're right about the device being popular. Good point.

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Sep 4, 2013, 11:34 AM
 
I really wish Logitech would make a Harmony Remote app for the One and S4 (only two phones I know of with an IR blaster). I loooove my Harmony remotes.
     
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Sep 4, 2013, 12:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
It's not the fault of Android or even Samsung that Verizon has locked down their version of the S4 so much. That's 100% Verizon's fault.
Thanks for the brief run-down, shif and starman.

This bit, though, seems a little disingenuous: i really don't care whose theoretical "fault" the status quo is.

Is it correct to assume that the only way to get an S4 in a non-bloatware and fully functional state is to buy it off-contract?
     
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Sep 4, 2013, 12:28 PM
 
Welllllllll

What I mean is that not all carriers do what Verizon does.

My S4 is Sprint. The bootloader is unlocked, and it literally took me less than five minutes to install a custom recovery and ROM on my phone. Samsung has made it ridiculously easy to flash custom stuff on their phones - the S4 has a built in firmware upgrade mode (bit like DFU mode on an iPhone) that lets you flash whatever you want on the phone - you can even overwrite the bootloader with a custom one, if you want.

Verizon deliberately locks the bootloader to prevent you from booting anything but the stock ROM.

Samsung puts their own apps on the device - I'd classify that as bloatware, if only because I prefer Android without anything extra. I'll install the apps I want/need. Even if you got an off-contract S4 directly from Samsung, it's still going to come with Samsung's apps on it. A lot of people don't mind that - those Samsung-exclusive apps are "features" to people who like and use them.
     
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Sep 4, 2013, 03:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post

Is it correct to assume that the only way to get an S4 in a non-bloatware and fully functional state is to buy it off-contract?
The only way to avoid all bloatware and other garbage with Android is to buy an off-contract Nexus device. Which makes the experience very similar to buying an iPhone.
     
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Sep 4, 2013, 03:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by Phileas View Post
The only way to avoid all bloatware and other garbage with Android is to buy an off-contract Nexus device. Which makes the experience very similar to buying an iPhone.
Right down to the extremely limited choice of products, I guess.

Although: I can get an iPhone subsidized, on contract, and still have the same experience as someone buying it off-contract.
     
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Sep 4, 2013, 03:52 PM
 
Kit Kats suck.
     
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Sep 4, 2013, 04:10 PM
 
Your mom sucks.
     
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Sep 4, 2013, 04:19 PM
 
Hmm... I hadn't thought of it that way.
     
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Sep 4, 2013, 04:26 PM
 
I'm here to present a new way of thinking to everyone who comes across my insanity.

I also REALLY WANT A KITKAT NOW. So thanks for that.
     
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Sep 4, 2013, 04:33 PM
 
Kit Kat? thats the best you can do? Snickers are so much better.
     
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Sep 4, 2013, 04:36 PM
 
Twix.
     
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Sep 4, 2013, 04:41 PM
 
Snickers make my teeth hurt.

I'll take a Twix any day of the week, but dark chocolate KitKats trump anything else.
     
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Sep 4, 2013, 04:48 PM
 
I'm not a huge fan of chocolate, but I'm enough of a fan to know Hershey's is shit.
     
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Sep 4, 2013, 04:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by Phileas View Post
The only way to avoid all bloatware and other garbage with Android is to buy an off-contract Nexus device. Which makes the experience very similar to buying an iPhone.
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
Right down to the extremely limited choice of products, I guess.

Although: I can get an iPhone subsidized, on contract, and still have the same experience as someone buying it off-contract.
LOL, after reading all this, I decided that I'm too old too bother with Android.

In the words of Sweet Brown: Ain't nobody got time for this.

-t
     
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Sep 4, 2013, 04:51 PM
 
If it has paraffin in it, then it's not chocolate. Personally it's Butter Finger or Almond Joy as the best.
     
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Sep 4, 2013, 05:02 PM
 
It's not chocolate if it's not at least 75% cacao.

(That's the safeword today.)
     
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Sep 4, 2013, 05:05 PM
 
That was yesterday's. Today it's "screwdriver".
     
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Sep 4, 2013, 05:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I'm not a huge fan of chocolate, but I'm enough of a fan to know Hershey's is shit.
and Nestle. Plastic chocolate, yuck.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
     
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Sep 4, 2013, 05:21 PM
 
Vosges has good upscale mass-market chocolate. I recommend Mo's Bacon Bar.

They have good toffee too.
     
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Sep 4, 2013, 05:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
That was yesterday's. Today it's "screwdriver".
You've never seen Portlandia, have you...
     
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Sep 4, 2013, 05:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
You've never seen Portlandia, have you...
Would you like to visit the farm where the beans were grown?

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