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Just got a new Galaxy S4!
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Aug 30, 2013, 08:29 PM
 
My old phone finally crapped out - the USB port fell off, so it doesn't charge anymore, which makes it kind of difficult to use.

Boy howdy I love this thing. I want to have its babies. I'm not gonna lie; it makes the iPhone 5's screen look downright tiny.
     
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Aug 30, 2013, 09:54 PM
 
I'd love a bigger phone. Waiting to see how the HTC one max pans out.
     
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Aug 31, 2013, 10:18 AM
 
I forgot to add - the ir bblaster is quickly becoming one of my favorite features!
     
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Aug 31, 2013, 05:46 PM
 
Love my Galaxy S4! Cant' imagine ever going back to an iPhone after this. Just a pure pleasure to use.
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Aug 31, 2013, 05:50 PM
 
shif, how's the camera on that? Can you post a pic or two from it?

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Aug 31, 2013, 06:02 PM
 
Here's one with flash in a dark room:



And here's one in mostly natural light with no flash:



As far as any blurriness is concerned, I have shaky hands.
( Last edited by shifuimam; Sep 1, 2013 at 04:10 PM. )
     
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Sep 1, 2013, 02:44 AM
 
As Apple developers, we work our butts off on designing mobile Apps. Quite honestly, they're a pain in the ass when it comes to the iPhone. The screen is so small.

From a user perspective, I'm at a point where I'm tired to death of the iPhone's small screen. I have the 5, and have owned every model previous. The 5 was a nice step up. Makes previous iPhones look like midgets. But it's still not enough. It's just too narrow. I'm actually frustrated using it. If I don't have to browse the Web with it, I don't. I find myself avoiding doing anything on it other than very basic stuff. As mobile friendly as the web is, mobile Apps still suck with a major loss of functionality compared to desktop versions. And Apps get oversimplified because there's no room to cram stuff in.

As an iOS 7 user from day 1, I feel that although it's a good step, the technology is just bursting out all over the place. In a way outgrowing this design.

This screen needs, no must, get bigger. iOS and its Apps need to breathe, and so does the Web. It's bullshit that they can't make it wider because it'll compromise usability. With the right design, they can easily add half an inch to the width without the phone becoming barely any larger. In fact, overall, they could make the phone smaller but cutting away at the big ugly bezels... lose the home button, etc.

Anyway, if all these leaks are true about the iPhone 5S and the iPhone 5C, I'm going to be very disappointed. The iPhone doesn't need spec bumps. It needs to be completely reimagined. No bezels. No physical home button. Super thin. Sleek. My prediction is that if Apple doesn't change the design of the iPhone, they're going to lose a crapload of steam over the next year where Android and Windows Phone start bubbling up. And Tim Cook will be spending his days scrubbing floors in a Mexican bath house.

And when it comes to iOS 7, sure, it's a new paint job. But go check out the multi tasking on a Surface tablet and be prepared to feel like you're living in the stone age with iOS. In other words, a paint job isn't enough.

So it's the hardware and software that are disappointing me. Now that I know iOS 7 is the same old, I'm hoping for a big hardware advance as in a new design and larger screen. If not, I'm quickly losing interest here...
     
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Sep 1, 2013, 03:08 AM
 
If you think the size of the screen is the worst thing about iPhone development, you need to try Android development with Eclipse. Because, it's horrid.

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Sep 1, 2013, 04:36 AM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
If you think the size of the screen is the worst thing about iPhone development, you need to try Android development with Eclipse. Because, it's horrid.
I'm not interested in having a discussion about developer tools. That's another topic. The bottom line is I find the screen, from a user perspective, just not big enough to the point where I'm avoiding using it for things other than phone, text, and Email. I could care less about all the junk Apps anymore. Same old.
     
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Sep 1, 2013, 04:37 AM
 
Originally Posted by theothersteve View Post
I'm not interested in having a discussion about developer tools. That's another topic. The bottom line is I find the screen, from a user perspective, just not big enough to the point where I'm avoiding using it for things other than phone, text, and Email. I could care less about all the junk Apps anymore. Same old.
That makes zero sense, considering some Android devices are the same size, if not smaller.

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Sep 1, 2013, 08:48 AM
 
I would argue that screen size is one of the primary reasons Apple is losing market share to Samsung/Android. Personally, I'm sick of Apple telling me what is best for me and those 4" screens are TIRED. Apple missed a HUGE opportunity by releasing the same, tired design once again. But we've got colors now!! Please. If you're going to release a low end iPhone 5C, at least also give us a high end iPhone 5+ with a 5" screen.

Apple is so far behind the technology curve on the iPhone it's laughable. Even their previous claim to fame - Retina Display - is no longer a selling point as there are plenty of Android phones with higher pixel density now.

There is no choice involved in purchasing an iPhone. Want a bigger screen? Tough - this is what is best for you. Want a faster processor? Tough - this is what you get. Want NFC? Tough - we don't think you need it. Etc., etc.

But since we have to release something new, here's a plastic iPhone in colors because THAT'S what you really need/want.
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Sep 1, 2013, 08:53 AM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
That makes zero sense, considering some Android devices are the same size, if not smaller.
The point is that at least if one wants a bigger screen, Android phones offer that. Seriously, how hard would it be for Apple to make an iPhone 5+ with a 5" screen in addition to the iPhone 5S and iPhone 5C?

iPhone? You are stuck with a 4" screen because according to Apple that is what's best for you and you don't need a bigger screen.

If Apple offered an iPhone with a bigger screen I probably wouldn't have switched back to Android and the Samsung Galaxy S4.
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Sep 1, 2013, 09:16 AM
 
I laugh at the larger screens; people holding small tablets up to their face.
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Sep 1, 2013, 11:19 AM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
If you think the size of the screen is the worst thing about iPhone development, you need to try Android development with Eclipse. Because, it's horrid.
Have you tried other IDEs? Eclipse isn't mandatory for Android development.
     
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Sep 1, 2013, 12:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by Mrjinglesusa View Post
I would argue that screen size is one of the primary reasons Apple is losing market share to Samsung/Android. Personally, I'm sick of Apple telling me what is best for me and those 4" screens are TIRED. Apple missed a HUGE opportunity by releasing the same, tired design once again. But we've got colors now!! Please. If you're going to release a low end iPhone 5C, at least also give us a high end iPhone 5+ with a 5" screen.

Apple is so far behind the technology curve on the iPhone it's laughable. Even their previous claim to fame - Retina Display - is no longer a selling point as there are plenty of Android phones with higher pixel density now.

There is no choice involved in purchasing an iPhone. Want a bigger screen? Tough - this is what is best for you. Want a faster processor? Tough - this is what you get. Want NFC? Tough - we don't think you need it. Etc., etc.

But since we have to release something new, here's a plastic iPhone in colors because THAT'S what you really need/want.
This.

Again, try the multitasking on the MS Surface. That's innovation. Apple's multitasking on iOS 7? Double tap the home button and see a copy of WebOS. It's lame.

I point this out because when you really look at it, iOS 7 isn't really different than iOS 1. Of course it's got a thousand little things more that do make a difference. But the overall is that it's the same.

Double tap the home button? Still Apple? These paint jobs aren't going to work in my opinion. This design of the iPhone has been going since the iPhone 4! This same design. June 2010. It's been over 3 years.

I want to believe all the leaks are controlled leaks by Apple and are fake. If not, they can take their gold iPhone and stick it.
     
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Sep 1, 2013, 12:06 PM
 
The gold iPhone is legit, from what I've seen - apparently France is trying to argue with Apple over using the term "champagne" for the color.

I don't care about the color of my phone. It's getting covered up with an adorable case, anyhow.

Also: the single-button interface of the iPhone drives me crazy. It's like how the one-button mouse was obsolete long before Apple relented and developed a (shitty) two-button mouse.

I *really* like having dedicated menu and back buttons. They also have secondary functionality by pressing and holding.
     
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Sep 1, 2013, 12:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by Mrjinglesusa View Post
I would argue that screen size is one of the primary reasons Apple is losing market share to Samsung/Android. Personally, I'm sick of Apple telling me what is best for me and those 4" screens are TIRED.
I'm not going to argue that Apple doesn't need larger-screened phones. I don't want one, but after toying with the HTC One, it's hard to argue that Apple shouldn't partake in that class of device.


HOWEVER: market share trends at current mean absolutely nothing.

Android's rise in market share is NOT at Apple's expense; it is at the expense of dumbphones. Both Android's and Apple's sales are rising.

The VAST majority of Android devices are way cheaper than iPhones, and are NOT those with huge displays. Only a relatively tiny sliver of Android phone sales is comprised of phones with displays larger than 4" or so, and Apple *handily* outsells that market by quite some margin, IIRC.

If you ARE going to use Android's market share as an argument for Apple to spring into action, you're calling for them to go after the mass market, which actually comprises that market share, rather than to try and mop up the rest of the high-end market that they don't already control themselves.

They might do both, but it makes much more sense to go about them in that order, IMO.
And the impending 5C might be an indication that this is what they're planning.


FWIW, I don't think market share is really of much interest until the dumbphone market has dropped to virtually zero and the primary growth no longer comes from first-time smartphone buyers. THEN we will start to see how the handset makers and platforms really compete for customers.
     
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Sep 1, 2013, 12:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by theothersteve View Post
This design of the iPhone has been going since the iPhone 4! This same design. June 2010. It's been over 3 years.

I want to believe all the leaks are controlled leaks by Apple and are fake. If not, they can take their gold iPhone and stick it.
Isn't it odd how each generation of iPhone handily outsells all previous generations? Despite the design not changing?

Also, if this champagne iPhone is anything like the golden iPod mini, it will be strikingly gorgeous and sell like crazy. I suspect it will be slightly toned down (less golden, and more champagne, like the early 90s' stereo components), in which case I'll be all over it. ::fingerscrossed::
     
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Sep 1, 2013, 02:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
I *really* like having dedicated menu and back buttons. They also have secondary functionality by pressing and holding.
I couldn't disagree with you more: for a few weeks, I've been using a Windows Phone 7.8 handset as my primary smart phone, and the physical back button drives me crazy. It's very inconsistent and I've so gotten used to using gestures to go back and forth within apps. All the buttons I tend to use are the same ones I have on my (simlocked) iPhone: home/Windows, the sleep/wake button and the volume rocker.
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
HOWEVER: market share trends at current mean absolutely nothing.
No, but I think it's really something of consumer preference: some people really prefer the larger screen size (I don't), so for me it's time for Apple to do what it does in the notebook world: offer two/three sizes. I'm quite certain, I'd pick the smaller one.

But I think what is holding Apple up is software not hardware: they need to make iOS more friendly towards supporting several resolutions. After all, a larger iPhone would be pointless if it didn't sport a display with a larger resolution.
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Sep 1, 2013, 02:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by theothersteve View Post
Again, try the multitasking on the MS Surface. That's innovation. Apple's multitasking on iOS 7? Double tap the home button and see a copy of WebOS. It's lame.
How is that lame? Conceptually, the webOS' multitasking UI is IMO still the best out there and copied by everyone else. I don't see the point of doing something differently just for the sake of doing it differently.
Originally Posted by theothersteve View Post
I point this out because when you really look at it, iOS 7 isn't really different than iOS 1. Of course it's got a thousand little things more that do make a difference. But the overall is that it's the same.
iOS 7 is hugely differently, a point driven home by me having to temporarily switch to Windows Phone 7.8. With the exception of the gorgeous mail client, everything else is creaky and old, design-wise. I still find myself gesturing in vain. iOS 7 will be a huge boon to developers, because it will allow for a new generation of user interfaces pioneered by apps such as Letterpress or Vesper. Your comments seem to focus only on the look, but that's only one of three new pillars. The other two, layering and physical UIs, make it feel very, very differently in your hand, but you have to use it to appreciate it.
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Sep 1, 2013, 03:13 PM
 
He's an iOS developer; surely he's using iOS 7 on a daily basis for development?

I found the insistence that iOS 7 is "just a paint job" rather irritating, too, though.
     
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Sep 2, 2013, 03:02 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
How is that lame? Conceptually, the webOS' multitasking UI is IMO still the best out there and copied by everyone else. I don't see the point of doing something differently just for the sake of doing it differently.

iOS 7 is hugely differently, a point driven home by me having to temporarily switch to Windows Phone 7.8. With the exception of the gorgeous mail client, everything else is creaky and old, design-wise. I still find myself gesturing in vain. iOS 7 will be a huge boon to developers, because it will allow for a new generation of user interfaces pioneered by apps such as Letterpress or Vesper. Your comments seem to focus only on the look, but that's only one of three new pillars. The other two, layering and physical UIs, make it feel very, very differently in your hand, but you have to use it to appreciate it.
Not happening man. You're not going to brainwash me with the koolaid you've been pounding back.

iOS 1 was a grid of icons and a physical home button. iOS 7 is a grid of icons and a physical home button. I get the incremental changes. And those are nice.

But there's little happening here.

1. The same, bloated crappy Settings. How annoying is it that you can't adjust contextual settings inside Apps... Gotta head over to that bleeding, bloated mess Settings App.

2. Multitasking. It still sucks. I don't care about WebOS. That was interesting 2 years ago... Here's the MS Surface multitasking. This latter is innovation. Apple just copies HP. Multitasking on the Microsoft Surface RT - YouTube

3. Physical home button paradigm. It's annoying on so many levels.

There's a lot of things... And let's talk about that paint job. It's paint they stole from Microsoft with their Metro UI. I'm losing respect for Apple because of this and I have every reason to. They're copying, blatantly.

When you say layering and physical UIs... Can you expand on what you mean...x

By the way, we've been using iOS 7 since day 1.
     
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Sep 2, 2013, 03:15 AM
 
If you think an OS is just an icon layout and Settings, then you really need to look under the hood.

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Sep 2, 2013, 03:20 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
I couldn't disagree with you more: for a few weeks, I've been using a Windows Phone 7.8 handset as my primary smart phone, and the physical back button drives me crazy. It's very inconsistent and I've so gotten used to using gestures to go back and forth within apps. All the buttons I tend to use are the same ones I have on my (simlocked) iPhone: home/Windows, the sleep/wake button and the volume rocker.
I'm in the same boat - will the "back" key take me back one screen with the app like I want, or back to the home screen? WELP, back to the home screen it is.

No, but I think it's really something of consumer preference: some people really prefer the larger screen size (I don't), so for me it's time for Apple to do what it does in the notebook world: offer two/three sizes. I'm quite certain, I'd pick the smaller one.
I absolutely don't want a bigger screen. I was hesitant to get the 5 when it came out knowing that it was taller than the 4, luckily it was thinner and lighter which makes it much more "pocketable" for me. I hope Apple keeps a phone of this size around even if they do expand into the high end large screen phones.
     
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Sep 2, 2013, 03:57 AM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
I'm in the same boat - will the "back" key take me back one screen with the app like I want, or back to the home screen? WELP, back to the home screen it is.



I absolutely don't want a bigger screen. I was hesitant to get the 5 when it came out knowing that it was taller than the 4, luckily it was thinner and lighter which makes it much more "pocketable" for me. I hope Apple keeps a phone of this size around even if they do expand into the high end large screen phones.
2 years from now, you'll be using a 4.7" screen wondering how you used anything smaller. By cutting bezel, Apple can give you this screen in a phone that's overall smaller...
     
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Sep 2, 2013, 04:10 AM
 
The point about the screen size is if you can use it with one hand or not. An iPhone works fine with one hand - the bigger Android models are best used with two, one to hold it and one to maneuver. Say this to a fan of a 4.8" phone and most likely he'll demonstrate how he (because it's almost always a guy doing this) can reach every part of the screen with the thumb. Look closely at how he does it - by moving the phone around in the hand with the fingers holding it. It's doable, but it's slow. You'd need a stopwatch to prove it to them, though, because it's so tricky to do that it causes that fancy selective amnesia. That's a real thing, btw. (For another example of this, look at someone maneuvering the file system with Windows Explorer - especially an XP version or earlier - or selecting things from a menubar inside a window. The tricky movements needed to hit the small control areas mean that it feels faster than it is).

The discussion about physical buttons is interesting. The home button is there for one reason - it's the one thing a newbie understands to use. Never forget how confusing a touchscreen phone was the first time you saw it. More physical buttons is an interesting idea, but the market seems to be moving away from that - they're no longer required for Android past a certain version (4.0?). Personally I'd like a few physical buttons on the edges and back of the phone, so I could use by fingers to trigger them without making the front surface any bigger.
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Sep 2, 2013, 04:47 AM
 
Originally Posted by theothersteve View Post
2 years from now, you'll be using a 4.7" screen wondering how you used anything smaller. By cutting bezel, Apple can give you this screen in a phone that's overall smaller...
You know, I finally went ahead to do the math on this. Apple reports the width of the iPhone 5 to 2.31 inches. This does include the band around it, which isn't exactly the bezel, but OK - let's say we use that space too. Given a phone that has a display that is 2.31 inches wide and has the same proportions as the current iPhone 5, we get a display size that is 4,706 inches. So not smaller, but well the same size. In practice you'd need to keep the outer case of about 1 mm on the outside of the display, so let's say something like 4.5" without making the outer case larger. Doubt we'll see it though.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
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Sep 2, 2013, 07:29 AM
 
Originally Posted by theothersteve View Post
2 years from now, you'll be using a 4.7" screen wondering how you used anything smaller. By cutting bezel, Apple can give you this screen in a phone that's overall smaller...
If they can make a 4.7" screen in the same width and usable with one hand like the iPhone 5 is, I'm in. Otherwise no way.
     
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Sep 2, 2013, 09:42 AM
 
You guys are close to picking up on what I'm saying. I said a smaller iPhone overall. The top and bottom have massive bezels. It's not just the width. Apple could cut 50% from the top and bottom and even increase the width slightly and you'd have a smaller phone. The iPhone 5 is long and skinny. It's awkward sometimes. Decreasing height will obviously help.
     
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Sep 2, 2013, 10:59 AM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
If they can make a 4.7" screen in the same width and usable with one hand like the iPhone 5 is, I'm in. Otherwise no way.
Exactly.

I have small hands, and can barely use the iPhone 5 with one hand.

One handed operation is a MUST for me. If I need a bigger screen, I lug a long my iPad.

I will never buy a phone that I can't operate with one hand.

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Sep 2, 2013, 11:18 AM
 
This is weird to me. Apple made the iPod in 3 different sizes with 3 different OSes. Why cannot Apple make at least 2 different iPhone sizes? It certainly has to be a limiting factor in their sales. Having a bigger iPhone is great. I've seen what can be done with a larger sized devices using Android and it is great. A lot of choices is not good, but having SOME choice is good and needed.
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Sep 2, 2013, 11:50 AM
 
This reminds me of the iPad's "perfect" 9.7" screen size arguments. Some of you guys are projecting a bunch of personal-preference/regurgitated I-KNOW-UI-BEST nonsense. I *too* design interfaces for mobile, and I hear 150 different opinions about every god damn detail through every iteration and phase. Seriously, this is akin to someone telling me that the 13" Air is the "perfect" size and anything else would be too big/small. Is your phone your primary computing device? How the **** can you so arrogantly force-feed your own preferences/usage into a few billion users' hands? Seriously, since when did everyone jump on the one-size-fits-all bandwagon? Is it because it's so haaaaaard for the OS designers to make a scalable interface? Laughable garbage. There is NO defense other than APPLE can't implement it properly or without "trade-offs". But hey, "if you don't like it, go use Windows"

How are those iPad mini sales going, btw?

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Sep 2, 2013, 11:56 AM
 
Side note: I hope Apple does indeed offer a bigger screen at some point. I offer no predictions, but just so it's on the record, I will perform NSFW acts on each and everyone of you if it's poorly received in the market. So long as they don't wait until their market-share goes to shit before the launch. If by some chance it ends up being the BEST selling size in their portfolio, I only ask that each of you reciprocate said NSFW act. A gentleman's wager.

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Sep 2, 2013, 12:01 PM
 
Oh, and how ****ing sad is it that we've waited a year for this new hardware (if the rumors are true)? I mean, damn, Apple used to do some cool shit hardware wise. Considering how big of a deal liquid damage is (count them sensors son!) you'd think we might see some innovation in that area. Well, from Apple... not Samsung and Sony.

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Sep 2, 2013, 01:14 PM
 
The switch to the Lightning port was partially to mitigate the risk of water damage.
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Sep 2, 2013, 01:14 PM
 
Screw the colors and the plastic junker. Make one new phone the best you can make it for $100 cheaper retail. Cut out the big ugly bezels. Dump the physical home button. Double the resolution of the screen. Make the device 20% thinner and at least as light as the iPhone 5. Put a 4.7" screen on it, the iPod Touch. Have a fingerprint sensor. Get some real innovation going in iOS, like MS Surface multitasking innovation. Etc.

If I have to go into iOS settings ever again it'll be too soon.
     
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Sep 2, 2013, 01:24 PM
 
Dude, what's the big deal about iOS settings? Android settings are just as bad.

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Sep 2, 2013, 02:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
Dude, what's the big deal about iOS settings? Android settings are just as bad.
You just answered your own question: if Android settings are just as bad, then iOS Settings are bad. And the reason is what I've already mentioned. You have to exit out of an App and into settings for App specific settings. You download an App and open it. It tells you to enable location, blah blah for it to work. And it tells you to go to Settings to make the changes. Annoying. Unwieldy. Inefficient.

And Settings is a dumping ground for everything. It's bloated to hell.

That's what's wrong with it.

No, iOS is dated.too much of the same way of doing things.

We might start developing for Windows as well. That may sound crazy to you but Microsoft has some great innovation going with the software. I predict that Apple is going to lose steam over the next year and Microsoft is going to gain. This, provided Microsoft fixes some issues with Windows and Apple doesn't release anything but a plastic junker and a 3 year old design phone for yet another tired year.
     
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Sep 2, 2013, 02:12 PM
 
I think we're at a point now where if people are complaining about settings, the rest of the OS is just fine.

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Sep 2, 2013, 02:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
I think we're at a point now where if people are complaining about settings, the rest of the OS is just fine.
Dude. You're not reading what I'm talking about. Forget Settings. It's multitasking. It's the grid of icons. It's the ripped off Metro UI. It's the hardware 3 years on design. It's everything.
     
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Sep 2, 2013, 02:54 PM
 
So you're saying that Apple ripped off the Metro UI, despite the fact that a grid of icons goes all the way back to System 1?

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Sep 2, 2013, 04:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by theothersteve View Post
Screw the colors and the plastic junker. Make one new phone the best you can make it for $100 cheaper retail. Cut out the big ugly bezels. Dump the physical home button. Double the resolution of the screen. Make the device 20% thinner and at least as light as the iPhone 5. Put a 4.7" screen on it, the iPod Touch. Have a fingerprint sensor. Get some real innovation going in iOS, like MS Surface multitasking innovation. Etc.

If I have to go into iOS settings ever again it'll be too soon.
The plastic is all about dropping the price, it's not a design consideration in itself to go plastic. The bezels are needed to avoid making the entire phone thicker, as things like cameras and speakers need depth (think focus length). The physical home button isn't going anywhere because its the only hint for newbie how to get started. The screen is already high enough resolution that you can't see the pixels at normal work distance, and it's a lot of cost (or at this stage probably impossible) and battery life for the minor benefit of being able peek up close to the phone. Thinner is always nice, but again, cameras and speakers. Bigger has been talked to death. Fingerprint sensor is apparently coming. Being able to divide the screen between two apps is fine but more of an iPad feature, and it's telling that its the only MS feature quoted as innovative.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
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Sep 2, 2013, 05:28 PM
 
You can get too thin.

I've got a case coming from China (legit brand but bought on eBay to save like $15), and I'm actually looking forward to the added thickness. It's hard to thumb type on something this thin.

Similarly, I don't like how thin some ultrabooks are. It's not comfortable for extended touch typing on my lap or coffee table.
     
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Sep 2, 2013, 07:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Exactly.
Turtle and I agree??!?
     
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Sep 3, 2013, 12:53 AM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
The plastic is all about dropping the price, it's not a design consideration in itself to go plastic. The bezels are needed to avoid making the entire phone thicker, as things like cameras and speakers need depth (think focus length). The physical home button isn't going anywhere because its the only hint for newbie how to get started. The screen is already high enough resolution that you can't see the pixels at normal work distance, and it's a lot of cost (or at this stage probably impossible) and battery life for the minor benefit of being able peek up close to the phone. Thinner is always nice, but again, cameras and speakers. Bigger has been talked to death. Fingerprint sensor is apparently coming. Being able to divide the screen between two apps is fine but more of an iPad feature, and it's telling that its the only MS feature quoted as innovative.
You're not getting my point. What has made Apple successful is their incredible focus. This is Steve's legacy. I've learned leading a few tech companies what that's all about. Everybody tells you what to do. Everybody seems to think they know how to do it. It was the laser focus Steve had that turned Apple around and made them successful.

What does this really mean in reality? It means you can focus your efforts on a very few things and make those things very, very well. As soon as you start diversifying and breaking up products you get the plastic junk rushed to market crap that is predicated on the PC industry. Because it has always been a game of marketing and marketshare.

You realize the amount of work that goes into making a flagship product? The QA testing. The code. The hardware design and engineering. The marketing. The business (e.g., costing). Adding another new product here is a major suck on resources and a distraction. Something has to give, and it has to be the high end model.

Steve Jobs said that all Apple does is make the best products they know how. That they couldn't ship a $500 computer because essentially it would be junk. Tim Cook came out last year and reiterated this. But it's not clear he's going to follow this philosophy.

What I'm saying is that, I'm not entirely against Apple having a cheaper iPhone. They had their Pro laptops and the cheaper iBooks for years. The iPhone junker could replace leaving older iPhones on the market and maybe even goose sales. Every year 2 new iPhone models will be released. This could be a boon for business, especially in developing markets.

The problem here is that Apple's main iPhone hasn't had a design change in years. And iOS is tired. They need to focus on making the best phone they know how. That's the hardware and the software. It's not clear that adding an additional model that sucks massive resources of people, time, and money to create and manage it... one that will dump their margins... one that's a cheap version of a stagnant product they should be focusing all their efforts on... will help them.

Cook spec bumped the iPad 3 six months into its life cycle. It killed the iPad March event. As a result, it's been silent in California and people are starting to talk.

If Apple releases a non-redesigned iPhone on the 10th and a cheap iPhone junker, they've lost the plot.

With a laser focus, they 'd forget about bothering with a junk model, and work to make the best phone they can to knock our socks off for a retail price even cheaper than it goes for now.

And the Mini... Here's a me too product that's not selling. No Retina. It doesn't add up. It doesn't stand up. It doesn't add up in a market where things have become cheap with ppi's above 350. This is what Apple risks now with a cheap phone. It's not clear it's even going to sell well. They're now going to compete directly with all this cheap Android phones.

I've got Pages, Keynote and Numbers installed on the iPad. Have since the iPad 1. I remember how excited I was at the possibility of productivity on the iPad. Well, that was just a novelty. The iPad sucks for productivity. No, I'm not packing a physical keyboard.

My point here is that this is the limits of what Apple is creating. The Surface tablet is incredibly innovative. That keyboard cover is pretty good. The multitasking on it is incredible. The News and Email App amazing. The performance buttery smooth. It's innovative to the point where I'd rather have it than an iPad. The iPad is just stale limited. A big iPod Touch. The Surface is flawed too, but my point is made.

And this is what's happened to the iPhone. The hardware and software. It's become dated. It's not fresh. It's not expanding these devices much, particularly when it comes to productivity. Microsoft has shown you can do so much more.

We need more innovation and less marketing Apple...
     
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Sep 3, 2013, 02:17 AM
 
Did you just claim that the iPad mini is a "me-too product THAT'S NOT SELLING"?



While the Surface is "incredibly innovative"?

     
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Sep 3, 2013, 05:03 AM
 
All your ideas for changing the iPhone are either "me too!" or don't make sense - which is why I commented on each and everyone in turn. iOS "tired"? I guess that's why they're redoing the entire design then. Meanwhile Android 4.3 is out with a new Camera UI, support for new versions of OpenGL ES and Bluetooth, and restricted user profiles - now THAT is tired.

And you are so far off on the iPad mini that it's not even funny. It was sold out everywhere a few weeks before Christmas and two months after. It's a huge success - in fact, it's too big of a success, because its lower margins are hurting the regular iPad. Just read the financial results if you don't believe me. 7" tablets don't all have Retina displays - the new Nexus 7 does, and a fine display it seems to be, but it's almost a year newer and pays for that with a flaky battery life. Meanwhile, MS took a writedown of $900 million on unsold Surface RT hardware. Keyboard covers are a nice idea, but there are many such covers for the iPad and just about any Android tablet.

Everyone would love for Apple to be more innovative, but you're not exactly showing that anyone else is doing better by pointing at the biggest hardware dud since the Zune and going on about the split screen multitasking as if it were the greatest thing since sliced bread. Apple is moving more carefully, because they're selling well and don't want to upset the boat. If anyone else had been making any waves and actually selling anything, Apple would be forced to move faster. That's not happening.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
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Sep 3, 2013, 06:50 AM
 
Originally Posted by pooka View Post
Oh, and how ****ing sad is it that we've waited a year for this new hardware (if the rumors are true)? I mean, damn, Apple used to do some cool shit hardware wise. Considering how big of a deal liquid damage is (count them sensors son!) you'd think we might see some innovation in that area. Well, from Apple... not Samsung and Sony.
Didn't go so well for Samsung from all accounts I've read.
     
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Sep 3, 2013, 10:10 AM
 
Originally Posted by theothersteve View Post
Not happening man. You're not going to brainwash me with the koolaid you've been pounding back.

iOS 1 was a grid of icons and a physical home button. iOS 7 is a grid of icons and a physical home button. I get the incremental changes. And those are nice.
From that perspective, you're right. But then again, to me, that's akin to saying that the tradition mouse-based GUI has been the same since the original Macintosh -- on the one hand, it's true, but on the other, so much has changed in the meantime.

The only other alternative to the icon on a grid idea is Windows Phone, and honestly, I don't think it's particularly better. I don't think it's a good idea to clamor for something new just for the sake of having something new.
Originally Posted by theothersteve View Post
2. Multitasking. It still sucks. I don't care about WebOS. That was interesting 2 years ago... Here's the MS Surface multitasking. This latter is innovation. Apple just copies HP. Multitasking on the Microsoft Surface RT - YouTube
You're comparing an OS optimized for smartphones to a tablet OS (it's clear that iOS 7 is focussed on getting the smartphone UI right, the iPad has secondary priority).
Originally Posted by theothersteve View Post
3. Physical home button paradigm. It's annoying on so many levels.
To me, that's the best thing about iOS and Apple would be stupid to change that. Especially to less experienced users, it allows them to consistently go back to the home screen.
Originally Posted by theothersteve View Post
And let's talk about that paint job. It's paint they stole from Microsoft with their Metro UI. I'm losing respect for Apple because of this and I have every reason to. They're copying, blatantly.
The more I use Windows Phone, the more I see how different they are. Apple did not copy one iota of the Windows Phone UI, because that is scroll based (at least in most apps). Microsoft was the first to focus on typography as a major design element and Apple followed Microsoft's lead. Put succinctly, Apple followed a design trend made popular by Microsoft, but they did not copy the UI. (This may sound like I'm diminishing Microsoft's achievements here, but in my mind, it's the exact opposite: they have set a trend that is »independent of implementation«. That deserves far more credit than copying a certain UI element.)
Originally Posted by theothersteve View Post
When you say layering and physical UIs... Can you expand on what you mean...x
It has mostly to do with how the system treats touch input. Before iOS 7, UI elements behaved less like physical objects. If you want to access the camera from the lock screen and slide up, all that matters is that you've slid up beyond a threshold and the camera UI is unveiled. The velocity of the slide is independent of the velocity with which you move your finger (you can see this most easily when you slide very slowly). In other words, a fixed animation is triggered at a certain point.

In iOS 7, this slider has a mass and there is a gravitational force. So if you don't unlock quickly enough and you impart too little momentum on the slide, it comes crashing down again. In fact, you slam the slider down to the »ground« and it will bounce. This is UI is not an animation, but a mini physics simulation which takes the user's input into account.

The big advantage is that developers, some of which have used these ideas already, have access to this free of charge, i. e. they no longer have to write this code (and I reckon, most of them can't anyway). Also the redesign is going in the same direction: it makes it easier for app designers to use stock UI elements, because many apps have been designed using the design principles which iOS 7 is based on anyway.

If we view this from a higher level, what Apple is doing with iOS 7 is focus and build on the strength of their platform -- which is the app ecosystem. They're making it easier for developers to create apps which are second to none and cannot be built easily on other platforms. IMO they're doing the right thing.

There are certainly feature gaps (e. g. something akin to contracts and collaborative document handling), but I think this is more likely to appear with iOS 8 which IMO will be focussed on getting the iPad's UI right.
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Sep 3, 2013, 10:43 AM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
All your ideas for changing the iPhone are either "me too!" or don't make sense - which is why I commented on each and everyone in turn. iOS "tired"? I guess that's why they're redoing the entire design then. Meanwhile Android 4.3 is out with a new Camera UI, support for new versions of OpenGL ES and Bluetooth, and restricted user profiles - now THAT is tired.

And you are so far off on the iPad mini that it's not even funny. It was sold out everywhere a few weeks before Christmas and two months after. It's a huge success - in fact, it's too big of a success, because its lower margins are hurting the regular iPad. Just read the financial results if you don't believe me. 7" tablets don't all have Retina displays - the new Nexus 7 does, and a fine display it seems to be, but it's almost a year newer and pays for that with a flaky battery life. Meanwhile, MS took a writedown of $900 million on unsold Surface RT hardware. Keyboard covers are a nice idea, but there are many such covers for the iPad and just about any Android tablet.

Everyone would love for Apple to be more innovative, but you're not exactly showing that anyone else is doing better by pointing at the biggest hardware dud since the Zune and going on about the split screen multitasking as if it were the greatest thing since sliced bread. Apple is moving more carefully, because they're selling well and don't want to upset the boat. If anyone else had been making any waves and actually selling anything, Apple would be forced to move faster. That's not happening.
First on the iOS is tired. I design software for a living. When I say iOS is tired, I mean its core functionality. The grid of icons and physical home button. I use the Microsoft Surface as an example of what's possible with this form factor. I'd rather have the surface traveling... on an airplane, etc. It's flawed itself, but the point is to illustrate possibilities with design. Jobs was right. Design is definitely how something works. I could show you prototype designs that would blow your mind. Head over to Behance and check out what designers are doing...

But the reality is you're not saying anything at all just that iOS isn't tired. Why. I've pointed out precisely why. That there's lots of room left to innovate with things like settings, multitasking, widgets, keyboards, etc. That Apple is copying people now. The design of iOS 7 is a blatant rip off of the MS Metro UI. The thin fonts. Use of white space. Minimalism. Apple's iOS 7 HIG reads like Windows Phone 8's interface guide. It's embarrassing.

The Mini... come on... you're smarter than this. The Mini doesn't sell well. How do I know? 1. Apple doesn't report sales figures for it. If it sold so well they'd be reporting sales numbers like blah million sold last quarter, etc. 2. And because we know sales of regular iPads, the Mini makes up about 25-30% of iPad sales each quarter. This past quarter, Apple's iPad sales are down over 25%. And finally, I speak with retailers often and the word from them starting many months ago is that sales of it are "slow."

The Mini has sold under 10 million per quarter, the last quarter it's about 3-4 million.

On Retina. You 're forgetting about the Kindle Fires...
     
 
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