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Your iPad (or any tablet) lifespan (Page 2)
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Nov 12, 2013, 08:22 AM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
(Memory compression)
Hmmm... I wasn't aware of that. Interesting. I wonder if we'll see it in iOS 8 then.
Actually I'm hoping we'll see it in iOS 7.1. There has to be a reason that Apple has been testing both 7.0.3 and 7.1 at the same time.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
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Nov 12, 2013, 10:23 AM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
iPad 1 is borderline unusable. Also, it has been like that for quite some time.
I wouldn't say unusable... I watch netflix, amazon prime, read books, play games, read email, tweet, facebook, look up maps and surf...

The downsides are: no retina, it can't do ios7, and thus can't do modern apps.
     
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Nov 12, 2013, 10:37 AM
 
Surfing is really irritating on the iPad 1. Not completely unusable. Borderline unusable... esp. now if you're used to an iPhone 5s and an iPad 2.

And of course as you say, a lot of recent apps don't support it.

Out of my own circle of friends, I don't know anyone who bought the iPad 1 who still actually uses it, and this includes people who still rock the iPhone 4.
     
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Nov 12, 2013, 11:04 AM
 
P.S. It's not just that the iPad 1 can't do iOS 7. It can't even do iOS 6. This is a big support problem since lots of 3rd party apps these days require iOS 6 as a minimum.

So overall, to put it another way, if given the choice between an iPad 1 for $125 and an iPad 2 for $250 on the used market, I'd recommend the iPad 2 for $250. Not only does it have good support, using it is not actually unpleasant. If you can only afford the $125, then just switch to Android and get a used 2012 Nexus 7, or else get nothing at all and save your money.
     
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Nov 12, 2013, 01:17 PM
 
If you only have $125, get a refurbed Nook HD+. Nice "True HD" display on those, quick too, and can easily be rooted to allow for more flexible OS installs.
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Nov 12, 2013, 03:02 PM
 
Not to be a dick*, but if you can successfully root an Android, you're better off saving your money and spending that time looking for a better job.

I say this because you clearly have general computer skills which aren't being capitalized on.



*Of course, this pretty much means the opposite, sorta like "with all due respect".
     
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Nov 12, 2013, 04:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Not to be a dick*, but if you can successfully root an Android, you're better off saving your money and spending that time looking for a better job.

I say this because you clearly have general computer skills which aren't being capitalized on.



*Of course, this pretty much means the opposite, sorta like "with all due respect".
It's literally;

1. turn on USB debugging in settings (instructions on how to get there are included)
2. hook up tablet to computer
3. run a single executable file
4. there is no step 4

Is that difficult? Of course, with Google Play now available for the HD+, and all new Nooks, it isn't necessary to do it. Mostly rooting allows you to remove more bloatware.
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Nov 12, 2013, 04:59 PM
 
You have to:

Know you can do that.
Know why you'd want to do that.
Find the right executable.
Then your steps.
Then remove bloatware.
Then know not to sideload unless you know what you're doing.
     
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Nov 13, 2013, 07:41 AM
 
The average person who knows what their mobile OS is called, and knows how to use the app stores to begin with, wouldn't be that lost.
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Nov 13, 2013, 07:56 AM
 
If it involves jailbreaking or rooting, I'd say it's off the table for 95% of users.
     
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Nov 13, 2013, 08:07 AM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
The average person who knows what their mobile OS is called, and knows how to use the app stores to begin with, wouldn't be that lost.
The average person has absolutely no clue whatsoever what their version of the mobile OS is called. iOS7 being an exception, but only for those who previously used other versions of iOS.
     
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Nov 13, 2013, 10:01 AM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
The average person has absolutely no clue whatsoever what their version of the mobile OS is called. iOS7 being an exception, but only for those who previously used other versions of iOS.
If I wouldn't take care of the app and OS upgrades on my wife's phone, they'd never happen. She has an uncanny ability to just ignore all notifications.
     
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Nov 13, 2013, 11:33 AM
 
Originally Posted by Phileas View Post
If I wouldn't take care of the app and OS upgrades on my wife's phone, they'd never happen. She has an uncanny ability to just ignore all notifications.
She is perfectly normal in that respect.

Lemme guess, she also doesn't hang around computer-related internet message boards, right?
     
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Nov 13, 2013, 11:34 AM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
The average person has absolutely no clue whatsoever what their version of the mobile OS is called. iOS7 being an exception, but only for those who previously used other versions of iOS.
I wasn't arguing that point. A person specifically deciding between last year's Nexus 7 and a Nook HD+ for a $125 tablet probably would know the name of the OS, however. I know andi does, and she'd have zero problems rooting a Nook HD+ to get more functionality out of it.
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Nov 13, 2013, 11:41 AM
 
Andi hangs around the MacNN forums, and has been for many years.
So as such, your recommendation may be quite useful.

The average person does not give a shit, and never will. They'll buy what their tech friend or the sales guy will recommend them, or whatever looks like they might like it.
     
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Nov 13, 2013, 12:37 PM
 
Against my own better judgement I have purchased myself a new 32 gig black retina iPad Mini.

Tired of fighting over the old iPad 2 with the 4 year old. Looking forward to losing this one in a year or so when my younger one is a little older.

Apparently the Apple store has them, but they are only available for personal pickup, but nothing I could do was making that option available and I called twice and they couldn't tell me if they had stock or what was going on so... I threw in the towel and just had it shipped. It's supposed to arrive between November 21st and 24th. I probably could have kept screwing with the Apple store and gotten it sooner, but I don't want to deal with hassle.
( Last edited by ort888; Nov 13, 2013 at 12:56 PM. )

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Nov 13, 2013, 01:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
I wasn't arguing that point. A person specifically deciding between last year's Nexus 7 and a Nook HD+ for a $125 tablet probably would know the name of the OS, however. I know andi does, and she'd have zero problems rooting a Nook HD+ to get more functionality out of it.
That could be a fun project for someone like Andi, but for the same reason she's capable of doing that, she's already at a career level where she could scrape together the extra $100 if she felt it was a necessity.

Q.E.D.
     
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Nov 13, 2013, 07:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
That could be a fun project for someone like Andi, but for the same reason she's capable of doing that, she's already at a career level where she could scrape together the extra $100 if she felt it was a necessity.

Q.E.D.
That's all well and good, but if she wants to save a little money, a rooted Nook HD+ is a capable tablet with a beautiful full HD display (that's better than any other 8"+ tablet I've seen, short of an iPad Retina).
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Nov 13, 2013, 11:10 PM
 
Still a pain in the proverbial, rooting and all that. I know it's easy, but then you have to maintain updates, make sure everything continues to work - it's the old Linux saying (Linux is free if your time has no value) all over again.

One of the things I enjoy about the Nexus brand is how close the experience is to Apple.
     
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Nov 14, 2013, 01:20 AM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
That's all well and good, but if she wants to save a little money, a rooted Nook HD+ is a capable tablet with a beautiful full HD display (that's better than any other 8"+ tablet I've seen, short of an iPad Retina).
Fun projects are fun, but time is worth more than money for most of us.
     
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Nov 14, 2013, 03:28 AM
 
Since you can't buy a rooted device from any manufacturer, at any price, "worth" is entirely moot, isn't it? You can have a better experience from a rooted $125 tablet than one costing many $100s more. While getting a Nexus device fixes many woes, it doesn't provide everything. It's the same issue with current iOS, the stock OS sucks, and no amount of money given to Apple can fix that, but a little jailbreaking can.
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Nov 14, 2013, 03:35 AM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
Fun projects are fun, but time is worth more than money for most of us.
It's uncommon that I'm doing only one task at a time (save for sleeping, sex, and synchronized swimming). If I sat and broke down how much minutes are worth, it would cheapen the things that bring me the most joy.
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Nov 14, 2013, 04:12 AM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
It's uncommon that I'm doing only one task at a time (save for sleeping, sex, and synchronized swimming). If I sat and broke down how much minutes are worth, it would cheapen the things that bring me the most joy.
I agree entirely (would I be here, writing this, otherwise? ).

Which is to say, unless you're among the very few for whom dealing with the whole technical background surrounding rooting devices and maintaining rooted devices brings joy, you're FAR better off spending those extra $100 and spending your time on something more worthwhile.
     
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Nov 14, 2013, 04:13 AM
 
And now that both sides' points have been made abundantly clear, we can go back and forth forever.
     
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Nov 14, 2013, 04:30 AM
 
Except that a rooted (or jailbroken) device is better (has more functionality) than a non-rooted, and there's only one way to get there (unless you have someone that can do it for you). Retail products can't offer you that experience, for obvious reasons.

I wasn't aware that spending 10-15 minutes /month updating a rooted device was a big deal.
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Nov 14, 2013, 04:54 AM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
Except that a rooted (or jailbroken) device is better (has more functionality) than a non-rooted, and there's only one way to get there (unless you have someone that can do it for you). Retail products can't offer you that experience, for obvious reasons.

I wasn't aware that spending 10-15 minutes /month updating a rooted device was a big deal.
It most certainly is, if you include the time needed to deal with the information surrounding that process, including keeping up with software issues, etc. — if this isn't an actual hobby, the $100 price difference are used up easily even before the actual purchase is ever made.

Like I said: If you're the type to gain enjoyment from keeping up with this stuff, more power to you.

You're part of a tiny, tiny minority.
     
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Nov 14, 2013, 05:57 AM
 
Hello? You're deliberately ignoring what I'm saying. There's no "price difference", none, because in most ways the rooted $125 tablet is better than one that's 500, 700, or even $1000. No amount of money will get you that enhanced usability and function in a retail product. Hell, go ahead and buy the one that's $100s more, but you'll still need to crack it to get the most out of it. At least with something like the Nook there's broad support within the community, meaning you'll get updates promptly (and they work, usually better than the ones from the manufacturer).

Edit: Oh, and we're on a ****ing tech forum, we are the minority.
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Nov 14, 2013, 06:50 AM
 
The benefits of rooting are specific to somebody who'd enjoy the benefits of rooting. In other words, a huge geek. If that's you, knock yourself out, have fun and enjoy the tinkering.

I looked into it a couple of times, but for me the effort/reward curve makes no sense, especially with a Nexus device running 4.4 with ART enabled. Android as an OS is now so mature and elegant that rooting brings only very incremental benefits.

Devices running pure Android and avoiding the manufacturer specific bloat ware experience, which for me would be the main reason to consider rooting, are both capable and extremely competitively priced. There is no better 7" tablet than the Nexus 7 IMO, and that includes the iPad Mini.

I also think its optimistic to think that a $150 device will somehow be able to best a $600 device just by rooting it. Rooting doesn't fit crap hardware.
( Last edited by Phileas; Nov 14, 2013 at 07:02 AM. )
     
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Nov 14, 2013, 07:52 AM
 
Rooted/jailbroken devices are irrelevant to the mainstream market, as they should be. Sorry Shaddim, your argument simply does not hold water.

At this point you may as well argue that hackintoshes are viable mainstream products, because that makes just as little sense.

Originally Posted by Phileas View Post
I looked into it a couple of times, but for me the effort/reward curve makes no sense, especially with a Nexus device running 4.4 with ART enabled. Android as an OS is now so mature and elegant that rooting brings only very incremental benefits.
I actually rooted my Nexus 7 just for kicks. It was a waste of time.

I will say I have jailbroken my Apple TV 2 though, so that I could install Firecore aTV Flash to allow MKV playback. However, it was a pain to jailbreak, and it's stuck back in iOS 6 and missing a few of the latest features for even iOS 6. Ultimately I think a better solution would just to be run an iOS 7 Apple TV, and buy a separate device for MKV playback. And in fact, that's what I've done. Yes, it costs twice as much, but it's a heluvalot easier and much less of a pain to maintain, and you get to have the latest and greatest, and even better, actual support.
( Last edited by Eug; Nov 14, 2013 at 08:11 AM. )
     
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Nov 14, 2013, 01:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by Phileas View Post
The benefits of rooting are specific to somebody who'd enjoy the benefits of rooting. In other words, a huge geek. If that's you, knock yourself out, have fun and enjoy the tinkering.

I looked into it a couple of times, but for me the effort/reward curve makes no sense, especially with a Nexus device running 4.4 with ART enabled. Android as an OS is now so mature and elegant that rooting brings only very incremental benefits.

Devices running pure Android and avoiding the manufacturer specific bloat ware experience, which for me would be the main reason to consider rooting, are both capable and extremely competitively priced. There is no better 7" tablet than the Nexus 7 IMO, and that includes the iPad Mini.

I also think its optimistic to think that a $150 device will somehow be able to best a $600 device just by rooting it. Rooting doesn't fit crap hardware.
I like not ever having ads, ever. Beat that.
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Nov 14, 2013, 01:04 PM
 
Blocking ads = stealing content

Note, I have no particular strong moral objection to stealing content, only one should expect that content to stop existing if you do an end-run around its business model.
     
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Nov 14, 2013, 01:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Rooted/jailbroken devices are irrelevant to the mainstream market, as they should be. Sorry Shaddim, your argument simply does not hold water.

At this point you may as well argue that hackintoshes are viable mainstream products, because that makes just as little sense.


I actually rooted my Nexus 7 just for kicks. It was a waste of time.

I will say I have jailbroken my Apple TV 2 though, so that I could install Firecore aTV Flash to allow MKV playback. However, it was a pain to jailbreak, and it's stuck back in iOS 6 and missing a few of the latest features for even iOS 6. Ultimately I think a better solution would just to be run an iOS 7 Apple TV, and buy a separate device for MKV playback. And in fact, that's what I've done. Yes, it costs twice as much, but it's a heluvalot easier and much less of a pain to maintain, and you get to have the latest and greatest, and even better, actual support.
You root to put on CyanogenMod and ABP. How do you not know that?
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Nov 14, 2013, 01:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Blocking ads = stealing content
Can't say I care.
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Nov 14, 2013, 01:07 PM
 
I did a quick edit. The only part worth caring about is if you continue to want the content.
     
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Nov 14, 2013, 01:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I did a quick edit. The only part worth caring about is if you continue to want the content.
I don't, and since the ads are still sent to me, and I simply don't see them, there's not a problem. It's not like I ever clicked on them to begin with.
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Nov 14, 2013, 01:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Note, I have no particular strong moral objection to stealing content, only one should expect that content to stop existing if you do an end-run around its business model.
Good, I'd rather pay for apps rather than help that model. Talk about time being worth something...
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Nov 14, 2013, 01:39 PM
 
So then, the way you "beat that" is with iOS.
     
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Nov 14, 2013, 01:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
So then, the way you "beat that" is with iOS.
Which currently sucks, unless you jailbreak it.
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Nov 14, 2013, 02:00 PM
 
Meh. I like it. I doubt jailbreaking will fix Safari being a memory hawg.
     
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Nov 14, 2013, 02:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Meh. I like it. I doubt jailbreaking will fix Safari being a memory hawg.
Actually it does, because you can set the max heap size. It's not an elegant fix, but it works.
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Nov 14, 2013, 02:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
It's not an elegant fix
Therein lies the problem. Rooting and jailbreaking allows the installation of geek apps for geeks, which most of the time are half-assed.

That's one of the reasons why I found it such a waste of time.
     
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Nov 14, 2013, 02:12 PM
 
Sometimes, I don't want to **** every capacitor.
     
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Nov 14, 2013, 02:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Therein lies the problem. Rooting and jailbreaking allows the installation of geek apps for geeks, which most of the time are half-assed.

That's one of the reasons why I found it such a waste of time.
It's not half-assed, I'd say quarter-assed. It doesn't fix the whole problem, just keeps it localized and from spilling into everything else.
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Nov 14, 2013, 02:25 PM
 
The problem with Safari isn't spill, it's lack of optimization of what it takes.
     
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Nov 14, 2013, 02:30 PM
 
Frankly, I rarely use it, Chrome is so much better that I rarely bother.
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Nov 14, 2013, 02:38 PM
 
Apple has to blow it much harder (e.g. Maps) for me to switch from the default.

That, or be spare. I use PCalc and Weatherbug.
     
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Nov 14, 2013, 03:09 PM
 
There's hope yet that an iOS updat will activate memory compression, which should take care of most issues.
     
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Nov 14, 2013, 03:15 PM
 
Yeah. If this is still happening 6 months from now, that'd be a different story.
     
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Nov 14, 2013, 08:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
I like not ever having ads, ever. Beat that.
Adblock Plus for Android does that without rooting, no? Having said that, I don't block ads. I like to see what the competition is coming up with next.
     
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Nov 14, 2013, 08:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by Phileas View Post
Adblock Plus for Android does that without rooting, no? Having said that, I don't block ads. I like to see what the competition is coming up with next.
No, it doesn't, it likes to randomly stop working, the root version is much more stable and effective. "Competition"? russianbrides.com is competition? (an ad I saw before I killed them off permanently)
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