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Is Punctuation Changing? (Page 2)
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Clinically Insane
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Nov 27, 2013, 09:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by BadKosh View Post
Its like kids not learning cursive writing. Its more of a dumbing down and a lack of discipline.
Precisely. In my grade school we had a writing class, apart from reading, and worked on cursive for a whole year. I'm pretty sure that isn't done anymore. My cursive is so "pretty" I'm often told I write like a girl. And sometimes I write calligraphy for fun.
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Nov 28, 2013, 12:55 AM
 
It's not?
     
subego  (op)
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Nov 28, 2013, 10:04 AM
 
That's the odd thing. I can draw, do calligraphy (enjoy it, too), and dig typefaces, but my actual writing is all caps.

I think it's speed mainly. I lack patience with writing.
     
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Nov 28, 2013, 06:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
This is a problem on a number of levels.

Transitioning from block/printing to cursive is both a rite of passage for elementary school students and a developmental stage for their brains and their entire physical coordination systems. While "educators" deprecate cursive as outmoded or unnecessary, they fail to see the underlying skills that are built by teaching cursive, and thus they miss the benefits that come from teaching it.

Without the transition to fluid letter formation, children miss out on the synthesis of connecting simple forms into complex, flowing forms, which impairs their abilities in a number of areas. Not only is fine motor coordination not as well developed in children who do not learn cursive, more abstract impacts, such as decreased gross motor coordination in transitional movements (diagonal and circular movements, for example), and there is evidence that certain types of logical reasoning are less well developed in such children as well.

On the surface, it looks like lazy schools, but when you look deeper, it is actually a product of dumbed-down educators.
I don't buy a word of this.

Cursive itself is really a dumbed-down version of calligraphy. And about as useful.

And since the cursive of 80% of adults is unreadable to anyone else but themselves, it's a completely useless skill in any social arena. Yes, most people can write cursive faster than they can print, but guess what? That's a meaningless skill in the era of ultra-portable computing.

All this whining probably sounds exactly like the whining that occurred when Latin was removed from mass education. I'm confident that bloviating notions like "children miss out on the synthesis of connecting simple forms into complex, flowing forms, which impairs their abilities in a number of areas" and "they miss the benefits that come from teaching it" was uttered then too.

Besides, an adult can teach themselves cursive for their own use in mere days, while mass education never achieved any semblance of quality in cursive from students, ever. It gave a lot of high school teachers sore eyes and headaches, though.
( Last edited by lpkmckenna; Nov 28, 2013 at 07:30 PM. )
     
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Nov 28, 2013, 06:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by BadKosh
Its like kids not learning cursive writing. Its more of a dumbing down and a lack of discipline.
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
Precisely. In my grade school we had a writing class, apart from reading, and worked on cursive for a whole year. I'm pretty sure that isn't done anymore. My cursive is so "pretty" I'm often told I write like a girl. And sometimes I write calligraphy for fun.
Is anyone honestly trying to causate "not learning cursive" and/or "poor handwriting" with "lack of discipline"?

That seems like a terrible idea.
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Nov 28, 2013, 09:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by lpkmckenna View Post
I don't buy a word of this.

Cursive itself is really a dumbed-down version of calligraphy. And about as useful.

And since the cursive of 80% of adults is unreadable to anyone else but themselves, it's a completely useless skill in any social arena. Yes, most people can write cursive faster than they can print, but guess what? That's a meaningless skill in the era of ultra-portable computing.

All this whining probably sounds exactly like the whining that occurred when Latin was removed from mass education. I'm confident that bloviating notions like "children miss out on the synthesis of connecting simple forms into complex, flowing forms, which impairs their abilities in a number of areas" and "they miss the benefits that come from teaching it" was uttered then too.

Besides, an adult can teach themselves cursive for their own use in mere days, while mass education never achieved any semblance of quality in cursive from students, ever. It gave a lot of high school teachers sore eyes and headaches, though.
The neuroscience behind my statements is solid. There's a reason kids weren't taught cursive before second grade; they were not neurologically and developmentally ready (as a group) to perform the task. Like language development, there is a "golden window" of time when this sort of fine motor coordination can be developed, and if that window is missed, it becomes harder and harder to develop these skills.

The link between "teaching cursive" and these developmental stages is not fully documented because developmental specialists are fighting hard to keep other, better documented developmental aids, such as art and music education, but it is there.

Children who are not exposed to this level of developmental training are also less capable in things like buttoning buttons, threading shoe laces through eyelets, and other fine motor tasks. And do NOT suggest that shoe tying is useless either, as it is a very well documented developmental skill - Google "developmental milestone" and "shoe" (you don't need to add "tying") and you'll find a huge quantity of science behind age appropriateness, connections with more advanced skills, and so on.

I'm an occupational therapist; this is my profession we're talking about, not bloviation.

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Nov 28, 2013, 09:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
The neuroscience behind my statements is solid.
[citation really really needed]

Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
There's a reason kids weren't taught cursive before second grade; they were not neurologically and developmentally ready (as a group) to perform the task. Like language development, there is a "golden window" of time when this sort of fine motor coordination can be developed, and if that window is missed, it becomes harder and harder to develop these skills.

The link between "teaching cursive" and these developmental stages is not fully documented because developmental specialists are fighting hard to keep other, better documented developmental aids, such as art and music education, but it is there.

Children who are not exposed to this level of developmental training are also less capable in things like buttoning buttons, threading shoe laces through eyelets, and other fine motor tasks. And do NOT suggest that shoe tying is useless either, as it is a very well documented developmental skill - Google "developmental milestone" and "shoe" (you don't need to add "tying") and you'll find a huge quantity of science behind age appropriateness, connections with more advanced skills, and so on.

I'm an occupational therapist; this is my profession we're talking about, not bloviation.
Um, I'm 100% certain that I was taught to button buttons and thread my shoes long before I was taught to write cursive.

Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
And do NOT suggest that shoe tying is useless either
Um, is this something that actually happens? Or something that anti-cursive types like myself are inclined to do?

I just can't understand why you might say this is something you anticipate me "suggesting."
     
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Nov 28, 2013, 09:32 PM
 
Latin was mandatory at my school. It did come in handy when I learned other languages. I also take geeky pleasure out of reading Caesar's writing in it's original tongue - still do sometimes.

Cursive was also mandatory. I do credit the fine motor skills I developed as a young child with later success first at art school and later as a designer. To this day, everything I design, write or plan out starts with pen on paper.
     
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Nov 29, 2013, 12:28 AM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
It's not?
Going by some in here, I suppose not.

Any time you can get a child to sit and write (or do any one task), for an hour, you're teaching discipline. Tonight I had enough trouble getting a bunch of them to simply put their phones away while eating dinner. Finally I just had to collect them all up in a big bowl.
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Nov 29, 2013, 08:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by lpkmckenna View Post
[citation really really needed]


Um, I'm 100% certain that I was taught to button buttons and thread my shoes long before I was taught to write cursive.


Um, is this something that actually happens? Or something that anti-cursive types like myself are inclined to do?

I just can't understand why you might say this is something you anticipate me "suggesting."
Buttoning and shoe tying are developmental milestones that are expected earlier than cursive writing. Among the most commonly used developmental ladders, buttoning is usually placed around 24-30 months, while shoe tying is appropriate at around 5 years, and cursive at around 7 or 8. This is due to the level of maturity of the brain, and its ability to make the next step up to tackle a new challenge. And there are indeed those who say shoe tying is "antique" and should be abandoned.

As far as citations to support my statements, try here, and here, and here, and here. There are lots more.

I usually don't have to give specific articles to the physicians I work with for them to say "you're the OT, I believe your professional opinion" much the way physicians typically don't have to provide detailed background articles when they say "your symptoms are consistent with pancreatitis, but there are other things to be concerned about..." So yeah, your request came across as a challenge to my professional competence, and maybe I came across harshly in response. It's a hazard of being an occupational therapist; 90% of the world doesn't have a clue what we do, so we're always running into this sort of "prove it" thing.

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Nov 30, 2013, 11:25 AM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
Any time you can get a child to sit and write (or do any one task), for an hour, you're teaching discipline. Tonight I had enough trouble getting a bunch of them to simply put their phones away while eating dinner. Finally I just had to collect them all up in a big bowl.
I went to a meeting recently where the organiser asked us to put our mobile phones in a little plastic basket. One guy refused since it was his personal phone. I just left mine in my bag.
     
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Nov 30, 2013, 02:02 PM
 
IMO, we should be teaching kids sheet bends.
     
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Nov 30, 2013, 06:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by mattyb View Post
I went to a meeting recently where the organiser asked us to put our mobile phones in a little plastic basket. One guy refused since it was his personal phone. I just left mine in my bag.
That's like asking me to hand over my laptop.
     
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Nov 30, 2013, 07:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
Buttoning and shoe tying are developmental milestones that are expected earlier than cursive writing.
Yeah, I figured as much.

And there are indeed those who say shoe tying is "antique" and should be abandoned.
If you say so. Must be lobbyists from the women's pumps industry.

I usually don't have to give specific articles to the physicians I work with for them to say "you're the OT, I believe your professional opinion" much the way physicians typically don't have to provide detailed background articles when they say "your symptoms are consistent with pancreatitis, but there are other things to be concerned about..." So yeah, your request came across as a challenge to my professional competence, and maybe I came across harshly in response. It's a hazard of being an occupational therapist; 90% of the world doesn't have a clue what we do, so we're always running into this sort of "prove it" thing.
Honestly, I first thought we might be talking past each other. But this is gonna get awkward.

If you were saying cursive is a useful tool to gauging a kid's developmental status, I'd say fine, but I'm sure we can replace it will something actually useful.

But if you were trying to say that curves is some kind of necessary skill for kids to ensure developmental success, I call BS.

And then I read your first link...
Let's not handicap our students by not allowing them to fully develop their motor and visual coordination skills. Let's not limit their future career choices because they don't have good fine motor coordination. Cursive handwriting practice does so much more than take up precious time to learn in the schools, but actually enhances skills in many other areas.
Ok, a blog (by someone who isn't a researcher) is telling me that learning cursive will ensure the next generation of (her words) "surgeons, scientists, computer technicians."

Ok, let's start with the obvious: doctors are notorious for their terrible, terrible handwriting! I'm pretty confident that surgeons don't have pretty, feminine handwriting like Shaddim.

I'm gonna tell you this, Glenn: all professions have their myths they live by.

I'm in the military. I was there when they said anti-harassment rules would undermine authority. (It didn't.) I was there when they said gays would undermine unit cohesion. (It didn't.) I was there to hear them say uniform physical fitness standards are essential to a functioning military. (They aren't, only to specific jobs. For instance, comms research is filled with absolutely essential people who could never complete a 13 km ruck march carrying 50 lbs of equipment.) Hell, way back, some of them tried to say they could never put blacks and whites in the same units.

"Cursive leads to surgeons" sounds like a professional myth to me.

BTW, your third link is pretty dodgy to me. First, instead of a web site, it downloaded a pdf to my computer. No problem, but reading it, it comes from something called New American Cursive, which is not a research institute, but a company selling a training package. Sorry, but that's not a reliable source of scientific information.

Anyways, going back to "cursive makes surgeons," I'm easily convinced that learning cursive can help with fine motor skills. But lots of stuff can do that! What if we dropped cursive and replaced it with learning to draw well? I look back on my younger days, and I would gladly replace every cursive class I ever suffered thru with an art class. I look at my handwriting today, and it's terrible, but I don't yearn for a chance to fix it. But I would love it if I had learned to draw well.

I'm sure there's lots of functional alternatives to cursive as a developmental aid. But I can't fathom continuing a failed system that did nothing else but teach 80-90% of kids how to write out completely illegible chicken-scratch.

"Developing fine motor skills" sounds like a great idea. Let's do it without having to learn something utterly useless like cursive, while doing it ineffectively as always.
     
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Nov 30, 2013, 07:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
IMO, we should be teaching kids sheet bends.
Um, wat?

Ok, I looked it up. Learned something new! Thanks.
     
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Nov 30, 2013, 11:51 PM
 
The beauty of them is they generally stay tied, but are pretty easy to loosen. If you double up on the loop (double sheet bend), they absolutely, positively, will not untie themselves, but are still decently easy to undo intentionally.

A square knot (even a double) can somehow both be a bitch to undo, and if tension is on them wrong, undo themselves.

Bowlines are also a good, simple knot to know.

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Dec 2, 2013, 09:42 AM
 
There are two schools of thought about physician's/doctor's handwriting. The first, least derogatory school states that they have horrible handwriting because they always rush such things, hurrying from actual patient care through the documentation part and on to the next patient. The second (which applies to "doctors" versus "physicians") is that if they write crappily, then when they have to go to court, they can say "the nurse misread my order, I really wrote this:..." and get out of trouble that way. From working with a number of physicians and even more doctors, I am really more inclined to go with the former, no matter what. Even nurse-practitioners tend to have poor handwriting in notes and orders, and most physicians I've dealt with can write nicely when they just plain try. I had a surgeon as an OT patient once, and his passions were fountain pens and violins; using both with any degree of competence requires a lot of dexterity, and a lot of coordination, both of which are improved through the extended practice of cursive handwriting.

As for "professional myths," I spent over 23 years in the Air Force (a third of that as a Senior NCO), and I know what you're talking about with things like "this will destroy unit cohesion" and "everybody needs to meet these highly challenging physical standards." On the other hand, there is some basis in both; changes require buy in from top to bottom, and the US military is pretty bad at "selling" things to the entire chain of command. But my use of the references I did was intentional. You have to break down a task into suitably small and teachable chunks before you can teach it, and handwriting is particularly challenging in this area. There are a lot of other sources of handwriting curricula, particularly for block printing (Zaner-Blosser, Handwriting Without Tears, D nealian, and others), most of which include a transition to cursive. The New American Cursive link capsulizes what all handwriting courses are based on.

And as this Wall Street Journal's article from 2010 points out, there are a lot of specific benefits from using multiple neurological systems together, including visual-motor, fine motor, cognition and memory, as in writing something out longhand. It appears that learning and using cursive provides structured development of patterned movements similar to those used in touch-typing, which allows the writer to "offload" the structure of letters and words and allows them to concentrate on what the words are while letting highly practiced motoric patterns to take care of the details. Google "lower extremity pattern generator" for about three months of solid reading. The Maclellan paper (first hit in my search) and the Duysens paper (4th hit) are good starting points. These pattern generators are apparently structural and can be demonstrated in many ways, such as the primitive "stepping reflex" and the studies where cats with severed spinal cords were able to take steps with their hind legs. Such structural pattern generators are a good foundation for understanding acquired patterns of movement, but those acquired patterns are far more complex

I too am suspicious of "just take my word for it" assertions, but the subject is so detailed and broad that it is impossible to find "three perfect references" or even two or three solid papers that cover most of the bases. The American Occupational Therapy Association says that handwriting is a key indicator of multiple developmental structures and can be used to identify areas that are deficient and that need corrective attention. As mentioned in this AP article from a couple of weeks ago, many states are fighting hard to keep cursive in the curriculum because cursive is seen as beneficial in many areas. Why all the fuss? Maybe, as I (and others) suggest, it's because the underlying neurological development that comes with learning cursive potentiates learning and using other, more complex skills. Maybe it's just a good way to help direct children to the discipline, patience and attention to detail that cursive requires. Maybe (probably, I think) it's both.

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Dec 2, 2013, 10:34 AM
 
Originally Posted by lpkmckenna View Post
If you say so. Must be lobbyists from the women's pumps industry.
More like, the velcro industry. They lure you in, making getting a toddler dressed so easy and fast, with velcro shoes... and then before you know it, your kid is 23 and can't tie shoes to save his life.
     
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Dec 2, 2013, 10:43 AM
 
Remember the good old days, when people used to write in cursive? Nowadays people print or just type. Going to hell in a hand basket, I tell you
     
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Dec 2, 2013, 01:36 PM
 
Yep, I remember when having a nice hunk of charcoal and a good expanse of rock meant you can finally get that novel going. Kids today.
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Dec 2, 2013, 01:42 PM
 
Remember the good old days when we used to chisel important things into stone tablets? Nowadays kids'll write any damn thing on paper because its so damn easy. And it doesn't even withstand a rainstorm? Its a terrible medium.
     
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Dec 2, 2013, 01:45 PM
 
I guarantee you that stone tablet is still good even after a blizzard! Sure, it's a little hard to re-use, but still. Damn kids, always looking to take the easy way out.
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Dec 2, 2013, 02:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
More like, the velcro industry. They lure you in, making getting a toddler dressed so easy and fast, with velcro shoes... and then before you know it, your kid is 23 and can't tie shoes to save his life.
But can he still be a surgeon?!
     
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Dec 2, 2013, 02:21 PM
 
I learned cursive writing in my early years in public school. I even learned calligraphy in my later years in private school. That being said, put me firmly in the camp that learning cursive writing today is a complete waste of time and energy. Which puts me at odds with my mother who is a retired public school teacher. But I'd much rather my kids get taught how to type than how to write in cursive in school. The former is a skill they will use everyday. Whereas the latter is something they will only use to sign their name.

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( Last edited by OAW; Dec 2, 2013 at 05:26 PM. )
     
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Dec 2, 2013, 02:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
I'd much rather my kids get taught how to type than how to write in cursive in school. The former is a skill they will use everyday. Whereas the latter is something they will only use to sign their name.
Now that is a good point.
     
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Dec 2, 2013, 02:50 PM
 
People used to have much better memories before we invented writing. Books are destroying our children's development.
     
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Dec 2, 2013, 03:47 PM
 
Hand writing anything leads to higher memory retention than typing the same content.

There's a fair bit of research on the importance of the hand to brain connection out there.
     
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Dec 2, 2013, 03:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by Phileas View Post
Hand writing anything leads to higher memory retention than typing the same content.

There's a fair bit of research on the importance of the hand to brain connection out there.
I've also read that reading a physical book leads to better retention than the same literature on something like a kindle. Given how difficult it is to thumb around in a kindle title, I believe it.
     
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Dec 2, 2013, 03:53 PM
 
Purely anecdotally, but this is why I prefer handwriting notes. It sticks in the brain better.

Not to say that these notes use my best handwriting, or are in any way legible to the casual viewer.
     
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Dec 2, 2013, 03:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
I've also read that reading a physical book leads to better retention than the same literature on something like a kindle. Given how difficult it is to thumb around in a kindle title, I believe it.
Yes. We're analogue creatures, and have been throughout our entire evolution. Using electronic devices cuts us off from a wealth of tactile information cues that we have grown to rely on.
     
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Dec 2, 2013, 04:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by Phileas View Post
Hand writing anything leads to higher memory retention than typing the same content.

There's a fair bit of research on the importance of the hand to brain connection out there.
That doesn't require writing in cursive, though.
     
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Dec 2, 2013, 04:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
That doesn't require writing in cursive, though.
You'll remember that note that sucked to write even more!
     
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Dec 2, 2013, 04:43 PM
 
I've got a phone. I don't need to remember anything.
     
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Dec 2, 2013, 04:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I've got a phone. I don't need to remember anything.
Where you put it and how to use it.
     
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Dec 2, 2013, 04:51 PM
 
I rely on you to tell me where to put it.
     
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Dec 2, 2013, 05:10 PM
 
hey-o!
     
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Dec 2, 2013, 09:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
That doesn't require writing in cursive, though.
There's got to be an equivalent in music where learning something difficult but, on the surface, pointless makes you a better musician.


Hey. I just found a phone.
     
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Dec 2, 2013, 09:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
Purely anecdotally, but this is why I prefer handwriting notes. It sticks in the brain better.

Not to say that these notes use my best handwriting, or are in any way legible to the casual viewer.
When you write a note, you process the information twice: first to compose and second to "transcribe" to paper. Handling the note reminds you of the content, whether you actually read it or not; the event wherein you created the note is a "container" that includes the memory of creating the note, its content, what you were thinking around that time, etc., so even glancing at the note retrieves the whole container.

Back on topic, punctuation is critical in handwritten (print or longhand) communication, even if you are the only reader. I think the popular texting concept of omitting words, replacing them with (shudder!) single letters or numbers, and especially omitting punctuation, all reflect a lack of respect for the reader, and for communication as such. By not bothering to make one's message clear and easily read, the texter puts an added burden on the reader, who will probably in turn dis the originator with an equally cryptic reply. To me, if your message isn't worth the recipient actually understanding it, why bother sending it?

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Dec 2, 2013, 10:08 PM
 
I'm not trying to be (much) of an ass here...

Isn't the whole point of writing something down not having to remember it?
     
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Dec 2, 2013, 10:10 PM
 
I admit, when you wrote "dis" I thought you were doing a "dis or dat" type thing.
     
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Dec 3, 2013, 06:33 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I'm not trying to be (much) of an ass here...

Isn't the whole point of writing something down not having to remember it?
The point is to not forget whatever you wrote down. You still have to remember that you wrote it down, and where you put it, so you can retrieve it later. Essentially, that's what "memory" is about, right? But as I said, the process of writing it down reinforces the memory (at least of having written down what you needed to remember).

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
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Dec 3, 2013, 06:35 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I admit, when you wrote "dis" I thought you were doing a "dis or dat" type thing.
You liked that? Sometimes slipping out of one's typical persona, even just a little, is a nice way to make a point.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
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Dec 3, 2013, 07:00 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I'm not trying to be (much) of an ass here...

Isn't the whole point of writing something down not having to remember it?
It depends, doesn't it?

More often than not, you write stuff down because it's important, and not having to reference the note you made is actually a benefit, because it's faster than having to look it up where you wrote it down.

I write lead sheets because they jog my memory when it comes to playing the songs. Ideally, I wouldn't need them at all — and in many cases, I don't, having gone through extra care in writing them up.
     
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Dec 3, 2013, 07:05 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I'm not trying to be (much) of an ass here...

Isn't the whole point of writing something down not having to remember it?
Can't remember when or where I saw it, but I think that this is the 'default' behaviour of the brain.
     
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Dec 3, 2013, 07:20 AM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
When you write a note, you process the information twice: first to compose and second to "transcribe" to paper. Handling the note reminds you of the content, whether you actually read it or not; the event wherein you created the note is a "container" that includes the memory of creating the note, its content, what you were thinking around that time, etc., so even glancing at the note retrieves the whole container.
Thanks for posting that - it reminded me of an article I read about paper books and memory retention vs. Kindle et al.

The book serves as a container for the collected memories that are connected to that book - picking it up or looking at the book gives us easy access to the memories collected within that container.

A Kindle is a generically packaged box, there are a multitude of disconnected memories associated with it, few of which are useful. The box effect does kick in when reading a specific book on an e-reader but not to the same level as it does with a physical book.

It is becoming increasingly clear that, for many things, we cannot replace analogue items and haptic feedback with electronic equivalents and not experience a neural penalty.
     
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Dec 3, 2013, 08:08 AM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
There are two schools of thought about physician's/doctor's handwriting. The first, least derogatory school states that they have horrible handwriting because they always rush such things, hurrying from actual patient care through the documentation part and on to the next patient. The second (which applies to "doctors" versus "physicians") is that if they write crappily, then when they have to go to court, they can say "the nurse misread my order, I really wrote this:..." and get out of trouble that way. From working with a number of physicians and even more doctors, I am really more inclined to go with the former, no matter what. Even nurse-practitioners tend to have poor handwriting in notes and orders, and most physicians I've dealt with can write nicely when they just plain try. I had a surgeon as an OT patient once, and his passions were fountain pens and violins; using both with any degree of competence requires a lot of dexterity, and a lot of coordination, both of which are improved through the extended practice of cursive handwriting.
To chime in on a related note: other than the women (who tend to have better handwriting in general in my experience), almost every professional I know has near-illegible handwriting. Almost every dentist, doctor, engineer and lawyer that I know has famously bad handwriting. I have bad handwriting.

The answer, I suspect, lies with "does not give a shit". Because it's a near-useless skill and matters not a bit in the real world.
Mankind's only chance is to harness the power of stupid.
     
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Dec 3, 2013, 09:08 AM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
To chime in on a related note: other than the women (who tend to have better handwriting in general in my experience), almost every professional I know has near-illegible handwriting. Almost every dentist, doctor, engineer and lawyer that I know has famously bad handwriting. I have bad handwriting.

The answer, I suspect, lies with "does not give a shit". Because it's a near-useless skill and matters not a bit in the real world.
It also doesn't help that while in secondary school you do it several hours a day several days a week, but once you're a working person you're lucky if you do it a few times a day a few times a week.
     
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Dec 3, 2013, 10:58 AM
 
As I always tell my students as I write stuff on the whiteboard, "I'm not up here because I can write so prettily."
     
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Dec 3, 2013, 02:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by mattyb View Post
Can't remember when or where I saw it, but I think that this is the 'default' behaviour of the brain.
Should have written that down.
     
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Dec 3, 2013, 03:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
To chime in on a related note: other than the women (who tend to have better handwriting in general in my experience), almost every professional I know has near-illegible handwriting. Almost every dentist, doctor, engineer and lawyer that I know has famously bad handwriting. I have bad handwriting.

The answer, I suspect, lies with "does not give a shit". Because it's a near-useless skill and matters not a bit in the real world.
I've found writers who still do longhand are the exception which proves the rule. They need legible handwriting.
     
 
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