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Prosthetic Makeup (Page 3)
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subego  (op)
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Jun 12, 2014, 10:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by Face Ache View Post
Might have been cheaper to find silicone that doesn't need degassing. The stuff I use is a two part 50/50 mix that sets in 20 minutes. No degassing required. There are some fine details in the things I'm casting and it captures every one, no problem.


I make the moulds/casts, make the puppets, paint them, wig them, make the hats and boots, leatherwork, props, and sewing patterns, but my wife does the sewing - that's beyond me. Sewing machines are dark magic as far as I'm concerned.

I'll definitely look into other options then. I haven't searched beyond a single art supply store.

On top of it, this stuff takes a day to be ready for demolding and a full 3-5 days for a full cure.
( Last edited by subego; Jun 12, 2014 at 10:24 PM. )
     
subego  (op)
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Jun 12, 2014, 11:46 PM
 
Looks like not only may there be a product similar to what you describe (Oomoo 30), but it may be available at the same art supply store I went to today.

Twice.
     
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Jun 13, 2014, 07:47 AM
 
OK the Gerry Anderson figures are wonderful. Are they figures or strung at string puppets? Did you post this in RPF too?
     
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Jun 13, 2014, 08:13 AM
 
Originally Posted by BadKosh View Post
OK the Gerry Anderson figures are wonderful. Are they figures or strung at string puppets? Did you post this in RPF too?
Some are strung with working bits, but most people seem to prefer them on stands. I have a thread on the RPF.
     
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Jun 13, 2014, 11:47 PM
 
Gots me some quick-cure silicone (from the same store), and in keeping with the missive not to **** it up, I've decided to sculpt something to test it on.

I'm utterly uninspired by this idea, so I made... a lump? Not really sure.



Really, just what the **** is this?


I've also been testing out the envelope for smoothing out plasticene with isopropyl alcohol and a paintbrush. It doesn't work as well as I'd hoped, but better than I thought it would, if that makes sense.

I'd liken it to a very light finger smoothing, which has the "problem" of leaving small (but smooth) peaks and valleys.
     
subego  (op)
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Jun 14, 2014, 12:05 AM
 
Aha! The trick seems to be going back and forth with the tools and the brush.

For some reason I thought the brushing was going to be after you put the tools away.
     
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Jun 14, 2014, 02:08 AM
 
Wow.

The list of ****ups on the pour was truly epic.

Go to mix my part B. It's filled to the brim, so I can't help but slosh it all over the place.

I knew the pouring could get messy, but it didn't occur to me phase one of the mixing would be messy. I'm just standing there, it starts sloshing on the bare floor. I didn't get any paper towels ready before I started, and now my gloved hands are covered in it. Never occurred to me to ditch the gloves, get my shit together, and put on a new pair, but whatever. I'm an idiot. I know this.

Tongue depressor I'm using to stir is too short, so I'm tiring out my fingers with this ridiculous grip. At some point have to jam my hand up to the knuckle to get at the bottom. This means more sloshes on the floor, and my hand is drenched.

I put the cap back on and think "I have a brilliant mixing idea... why don't I shake the **** out of the bottle!" It hit me once I stopped that perhaps that's not the best method for keeping bubbles out of a mixture, but whatever.

I go to part A, which I incorrectly convince myself doesn't need to be stirred, take off the cap... and my slimy ass hands can't get a grip on the foil cover. I've got part B all over the part A bottle, and after failing to get the foil open completely, I resort to jamming my thumb through the foil. I've thus gotten part B in the part A, and likely wrecked my idea of saving some for later, but whatever.

At least I didn't shake the bottle, but of course, I didn't stir it either.

I put them both in my big cup, and even with the lesser amount I used, is still deeper than the tongue depressor is long. More awkward stirring.

The pour goes okay except for the part where I didn't make the plasticene walls high enough, and the big pink streak of unmixed part A.

But whatever.
( Last edited by subego; Jun 14, 2014 at 02:24 AM. )
     
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Jun 14, 2014, 03:36 AM
 


I don't think I can help you past this point.
     
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Jun 14, 2014, 06:58 AM
 
I'm on the edge of my seat, waiting for pics of the pour, the mold, and anything you cast in it.

FYI, I think you subconsciously sculpted a crude Star Trek phaser...which goes along with the Borg-like appliance you're working on, I think.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
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Jun 14, 2014, 03:14 PM
 
It's a testament to this Oomoo stuff... it looks like it actually worked!

     
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Jun 15, 2014, 02:00 AM
 
Speaking of being on the edge of your seat, I am too...

A little too much. I'm coming up with excuses not to start on cleaning up the sculpt.

My list so far:

Workbench isn't clear
Litterbox needs to be cleaned


The last one is such a good excuse, because I can find so many other things I'd rather do first, so I put those down while I'm wandering about steeling myself. Change a lightbulb here, do a load of laundry there, with multiple smoke breaks during and inbetween these difficult activities.
     
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Jun 15, 2014, 03:50 PM
 
My latest excuse has been getting the lighting for the show up to speed (see the year-and-a-half old thread I bumped on this subject), but I've finished up on that.

IOW, I'm pretty much out of excuses, and the cats are happier for it. Tonight, after rehearsal, it's time to knuckle down.
     
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Jun 15, 2014, 04:22 PM
 
Even though I have plenty of leeway to **** things up, I'm still trying to come up with ways to improve the molding process.

Beyond things like "have a rag handy".

My first idea is once you've mixed the two parts, dump that into a new container and remix. I have a paint stirrer now, so I think I'll do a better job of scraping the edges of the container, but why even make that a factor? Leave all the stuff which gets stuck on the sides, stuck on the sides of the "first mix" cup.


Edit: Downsides I can think of.

Mildly wasteful.
Uses up pot time, but I've got 30 minutes.
Could add air bubbles.
     
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Jun 15, 2014, 06:19 PM
 
Here's what I use...


A regular silicone kitchen spatula. Gets the stuff off the sides of the pot no problem.

Silicone isn't messy (unless you spill it before you mix it lol) because it sets and peels right off of hard surfaces.

The resin though... do that outside. Over grass or put a tarp down. You don't want to spill that inside the house, or on any surface you don't want permanently covered in resin.

Is 30 minutes the work time, or the set time? Mine starts to thicken after a few minutes. After 20-30 minutes it's fully set and ready to use as a mould.
     
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Jun 15, 2014, 06:39 PM
 
Spatula... I like it!

30 minutes is the work time. Set time is 6 hours.

There's a 15 minute/75 minute grade, but I'm happy with the slower stuff.

All my resin work so far has been in the garage, over a garbage bag.
     
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Jun 15, 2014, 08:05 PM
 
With lots of ventilation, I hope. That can be a very unpleasant situation without enough ventilation to keep those fumes from building up. OPEN that garage door!

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
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Jun 15, 2014, 08:41 PM
 
I didn't start with it open, but realized it was a bad idea pretty quick.
     
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Jun 16, 2014, 05:55 AM
 
Really scraping the bottom of the excuse barrel, now. Bench is clear, litterbox is clean, lighting cues are programmed, rehearsal's over.

All I have left is eating.
     
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Jun 16, 2014, 07:01 AM
 
Eating can wait until the cast is setting. Don't eat while you're doing the casting, or even while sculpting. Working hungry is a good motivator.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
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Jun 16, 2014, 07:36 AM
 
Crap... just had a grilled cheese.

Now I'm both out of excuses and not hungry.
     
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Jun 16, 2014, 01:29 PM
 
Cleaned it up... built my palisade.



That's the last the sculpt sees before destruction.
     
subego  (op)
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Jun 16, 2014, 02:47 PM
 
Did not go well. Started to cure way the hell quicker than 30 minutes.

Here's to 6 hours of anxiety!
     
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Jun 16, 2014, 02:51 PM
 
Things are bad...



I realize I should have bailed when things started going south, but I obviously didn't do that.
     
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Jun 16, 2014, 03:18 PM
 
so... are you sure it's failed? what now?
     
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Jun 16, 2014, 06:23 PM
 
Yeah, would have been better if the silicone hadn't started setting while you were still pouring it. A flat top (which becomes the base) would keep the shape better when you flip it over. You could make the walls higher and pour more silicone on top. It'll bond to itself so well you'd think it was just one pour.

If the silicone is thick enough it'll hold shape anyway. Can't tell from the photos, but if you have an inch of silicone over the highest point of the sculpt, it'll be okay.
     
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Jun 16, 2014, 08:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
so... are you sure it's failed? what now?
I have hope it'll turn out okayish. 45 minutes before I pull away the palisade. Though it cured so quickly, I feel like I could probably yank it early.
     
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Jun 16, 2014, 08:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by Face Ache View Post
Yeah, would have been better if the silicone hadn't started setting while you were still pouring it. A flat top (which becomes the base) would keep the shape better when you flip it over. You could make the walls higher and pour more silicone on top. It'll bond to itself so well you'd think it was just one pour.

If the silicone is thick enough it'll hold shape anyway. Can't tell from the photos, but if you have an inch of silicone over the highest point of the sculpt, it'll be okay.
Not quite an inch, but there should be enough material. I have plastic wedges I can use to shim it up, too. The bigger question is whether the unevenness of the pour will show up on the skin of the mold.
     
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Jun 16, 2014, 09:06 PM
 
Well, not a total loss, but it's got problems.



A few bubbles, but what's worse, is the gaps in the lee of the cap nuts.
     
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Jun 16, 2014, 09:42 PM
 
It may melt, but I'm going to try and fill in some of the bubbles with plasticene before I cast. I doubt it will make it worse.
     
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Jun 16, 2014, 10:07 PM
 
Looking on the bright side, some of the bubbles may come off as intentional. I'm going to leave the bubbles in the long row of scalloping, and the ones on the cap nuts. If that looks crappy I'll make another cast or try and remove the flaws.

I'm glad I'm using something drill/sand/fileable for the cast.
     
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Jun 16, 2014, 10:16 PM
 
Yeah just cast it as is, and remove unwanted bits with the dremel.
     
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Jun 17, 2014, 12:01 AM
 
You think plugging up the worst holes is a bad idea?
     
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Jun 17, 2014, 12:17 AM
 
Answered my own question. The silicone is too flexible and non sticky to plug.
     
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Jun 17, 2014, 12:33 AM
 
Onto the casting.

Takes two minutes to gel. I guess I better work quick.
     
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Jun 17, 2014, 12:51 AM
 
May take me a little to get the hang of this part...

     
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Jun 17, 2014, 01:14 AM
 
Holy shit.

This all kinda worked.

     
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Jun 17, 2014, 01:42 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
May take me a little to get the hang of this part...

Looks uncomfortable. Aim for a thin (.5cm-ish) skin. Try using less resin to make a thin coat and then repeat with more small amounts of resin until you reach desired thickness. 2-3 coats should do it.

You're getting there!
     
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Jun 17, 2014, 01:55 AM
 
Actually, trying it on myself, all that cheese doesn't touch my face.

Honestly, I'm a little concerned by how well it fits me... it's supposed to fit her.


My trouble with getting a thin layer on that first cast was trying to coat all those acute angles without sloshing over. I ultimately needed multiple pour sites, which kept upping the ante of resin used in the cast. I think I need to get in the frame of mind where it's okay to be dumping excess along the way, rather than keep it all inside the mold.
     
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Jun 17, 2014, 02:13 AM
 
Even with all that resin I used, you can see the part by the top cap nuts is paper thin.

Surprisingly strong though.
     
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Jun 17, 2014, 02:26 AM
 
This one turned out better.

     
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Jun 17, 2014, 04:04 AM
 
Here's that second cast. Not bad. Some of the edges where it meets the face are kinda thin. They're at 90° to the edge of mold, and all the resin pours out when you try to coat.

     
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Jun 17, 2014, 05:40 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Here's that second cast. Not bad. Some of the edges where it meets the face are kinda thin. They're at 90° to the edge of mold, and all the resin pours out when you try to coat.
If you can't fix it with resin, try car body filler.
     
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Jun 17, 2014, 06:39 AM
 
You nailed it. I had forgotten already my plan was to build out the cheek seam with putty if need be.


Now things get complicated.

Problem the first: mounting it to her head

Problem the second: painting it so it looks cool

Problem the third: headtubes


Ideally, I'd want to use some type of adhesive. I have no idea if there's one which is strong enough. The big question about painting is what type won't flake off. Secondary question is how possible is it to pull off a fake chrome effect. With the headtubes... boy I'd love to put glowing shit in them.
     
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Jun 17, 2014, 07:25 AM
 
Head tubes and attaching to her head can be combined; use a hair band to support some of the tubes and to help it stay on. Basic makeup adhesive (surgical or eyelash adhesive) should keep it stuck close to her face. Maybe liquid latex for some adhesion where it is close to the eye and mouth, but otherwise it looks like it'll just stay in place as long as she doesn't move around too fast. You may need to add some thingies on the other end of the hair band for counterweight, depending on how much the casting weighs. The head band can be hidden by hair or other attachments, and the tubes can help hide it as well.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
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Jun 17, 2014, 07:41 AM
 
edit: ghporter posted while I was making my detailed diagram below ( ), but we both think headband.

Originally Posted by subego View Post
Now things get complicated.

Problem the first: mounting it to her head
Adhesive I don't know about. Latex? How about something made of spring steel banding to wrap around and over the head. You know those springy head bands that females use? Could be hidden under the hair, or made visible and "techy".



Originally Posted by subego View Post
Problem the second: painting it so it looks cool
For a proper chrome effect you'd want to use Alclad II paint, but the hardware shop should have passable chrome spray paint. Just make sure you use the right primer - I've had trouble with it not drying fully.

Originally Posted by subego View Post
Problem the third: headtubes
You can probably find clear tubing in the gardening/reticulation area of your hardware shop. That's where I found some. Over in plumbing they might have braided tap hoses. I have some running out of a Cyberman head to make it look severed. Tap hoses...



     
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Jun 17, 2014, 08:10 PM
 
All sounds good! Those tubes may be too big for her petite face. I've got some small gauge vinyl stuff, like, for an aquarium, and even that is almost too large.

I still want to play with adhesive. Seems like state of the art is Krazy Glue formulated not to irritate your skin. There's a Kryolan store right by the art supply store. I need some more resin, so I'll check out some body glue.

Somebody double check my physics. If I make something smaller which is the same weight as the mask and glue it on, I'm subjecting the glue to more stress, because it's attached by a smaller patch of adhesive.

I'm thinking, if the smaller object stays on without issue, then the larger object staying affixed is almost a guarantee.
     
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Jun 17, 2014, 10:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
Head tubes and attaching to her head can be combined; use a hair band to support some of the tubes and to help it stay on. Basic makeup adhesive (surgical or eyelash adhesive) should keep it stuck close to her face. Maybe liquid latex for some adhesion where it is close to the eye and mouth, but otherwise it looks like it'll just stay in place as long as she doesn't move around too fast. You may need to add some thingies on the other end of the hair band for counterweight, depending on how much the casting weighs. The head band can be hidden by hair or other attachments, and the tubes can help hide it as well.
I missed this... both good ideas.

What may be an issue though is the whole Catholic School angle, which of course calls for pigtails. Some other form of hair band along with that may ruin the look.

Kryolan store was closed, so I wasn't able to pick up adhesive, but my plan is to glue an equally weighted stack of dollar coins (or something like that) to my face. The idea is smaller adhesive surface with lots of extra overhang. If those stay on for an hour, the mask won't be a problem. So far, the mask is very light. I'd guesstimate only an ounce or two.

Since she has the goggle, I won't need to use adhesive near her eye, and the mask doesn't get close to her mouth. The big mystery is how do I remove it? The mask will be covering the adhesive. Best I can think of is pull the mask away from her face, and slowly work in remover with a brush.
( Last edited by subego; Jun 17, 2014 at 10:25 PM. )
     
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Jun 17, 2014, 10:15 PM
 
Many, many thanks to everyone so far, with extra thanks to Face Ache, Glenn, and BadKosh!
     
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Jun 17, 2014, 10:20 PM
 
Found a nifty idea for glowing headtubes:

Mix water and dye from a highlighter pen.
Fill tube.
Cork with slightly oversized LEDs.


I like this idea because it avoids the glow stick, "rave cyborg" effect.
     
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Jun 17, 2014, 11:13 PM
 
Two minor rants...

Why the **** aren't there widely available, small, graduated, disposable cups?

How ****ing stupid is it I have to drive outside the city limits to buy goddamn spray paint?
     
 
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