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Netflix v Verizon
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Games Meister
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Jun 5, 2014, 03:19 PM
 
Netflix tells customer, “The Verizon network is crowded right now” | Ars Technica



Verizon sends Netflix cease and desist over streaming quality warnings | The Verge

Verizon has sent a cease and desist order to Netflix demanding that it stop presenting its subscribers with messages that blame Verizon's network for poor streaming performance.
Shame they didn't do this with Comcast instead of paying them.
     
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Jun 5, 2014, 05:20 PM
 
If it's the truth, and they can prove it, more power to them. I would not put it past Verizon (or comcast, or anyone) to stifle traffic from competing streaming services.
     
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Jun 5, 2014, 05:40 PM
 
There's a lot going on with this right now:

Verizon slaps Netflix with cease and desist over buffering message | Electronista

Vz is taking the douche road!
     
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Jun 5, 2014, 06:04 PM
 
It's super-effective!
     
Games Meister
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Jun 6, 2014, 08:56 AM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
If it's the truth, and they can prove it, more power to them.
The problem is as the system works now, even if they have proof, the lawyers fees will be cumbersome to make it through the legal juggernaut.
     
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Jun 6, 2014, 09:29 AM
 
Verizon claims Netflix is driving its customers away, threatens lawsuit | Ars Technica

"Netflix's false accusations have the potential to harm the Verizon brand in the marketplace," Verizon Executive VP and General Counsel Randal Milch wrote today in a letter to Netflix General Counsel David Hyman. "The impression that Netflix is falsely giving our customers is that the Verizon network is generally 'crowded' and troublesome. This could cause a customer to think that any attempted viewing of video, whether it be Hulu, YouTube or other sites, would yield a similarly 'crowded' experience, and he or she may then choose to alter or cease their use of the Verizon network."
This is fascinating... it seems to imply Verizon sucking on Netflix should be considered a unique occurrence for a service.


Sarcasm overload:
Verizon is worried that these notices will harm its otherwise sparkling reputation and even cause customers to switch Internet service providers. After all, the US Internet market is flush with competition, with every resident able to choose from so many high-quality service providers that there's no way we could list them all here.
     
Clinically Insane
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Jun 6, 2014, 10:37 AM
 
I dunno, I live in the telecommunications "butthole" of America, and even I have 3 solid broadband choices, more than that if you count lease lines from smaller companies, which is what we eventually went with, due to sheer aggravation with DSL and cable. That's actually more affordable than I'd ever imagined.
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Jun 6, 2014, 10:45 AM
 
Lots of places don't have choice though, there is lockdown on territory. Mergers of time warner and comcast... a rep was quoted as saying there'd be just as much competition after the merger in certain areas... which is doublespeak, because those areas never had competition in the first place.

As a customer, verizon's reaction to this is telling. One customer having a bad connection, sitting at home, calls up, gets the "there's no service problems in your area" canned response, they do nothing. Netflix calls them on it, and now they're worried about customer migration. Not customer experience, or satisfaction.

It would be interesting to see a map of the US with choices on it. Here in MA, it seems to have some choice, DirecTV, Comcast, or Verizon.

wow, albany has some speedy internet options!!
Search Results: Broadband Providers for this Area - albany,-ny - National Broadband Map - National Broadband Map

this is neat:
http://a.tiles.mapbox.com/v3/fcc.con...34.908/-77.146
     
Games Meister
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Jun 6, 2014, 10:54 AM
 
I have two choices where I live – capped cable or DSL.
     
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Jun 6, 2014, 11:50 AM
 
Perhaps you should assume Shaddim's hilarious "Communications butthole of America" crown
Mankind's only chance is to harness the power of stupid.
     
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Jun 6, 2014, 12:01 PM
 
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
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Jun 6, 2014, 12:12 PM
 
Hahaha I love John Oliver's show
Mankind's only chance is to harness the power of stupid.
     
Games Meister
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Jun 6, 2014, 03:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
Perhaps you should assume Shaddim's hilarious "Communications butthole of America" crown
My mother has it worse. When Verizon connected her area they mysteriously forgot to connect her house, so her only options are (presumably) cable and satellite. Both are far too expensive.
     
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Jun 6, 2014, 09:39 PM
 
I am an unabashed advocate of Net Neutrality ... but Verizon has a point. You can't "technically" blame internet congestion solely on the providers of "last-mile" broadband service. There are a lot of players in the equation ... including a neighbor's Wi-Fi interfering with one's own. That being said, do I put it past the big ISP's to respect net neutrality out of the goodness of their hearts? Absolutely not! As the great Frederick Douglass said ... "Power concedes nothing without demand." And in a capitalist system naturally a company will seek to maximize profit. And if that involves throttling the last-mile access they control to extract payment from the Netflix, Hulu, iTunes, etc .... one would have to be depressingly naive to think otherwise.

OAW
     
Games Meister
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Jun 9, 2014, 01:22 PM
 
     
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Jun 9, 2014, 02:15 PM
 
from the article:
netflix on verizon went from from 1.99Mbps in April to 1.90Mbps in May

comcast recently also experienced may slowdown: just from 2.77Mbps to 2.72Mbps.

Interesting.
     
Games Meister
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Jun 9, 2014, 02:17 PM
 
Yes, but Comcast also went from 1.9 to 2.7 after the deal.

You might argue in Verizon's defense that they are legitimately hindered by hardware issues (self-inflicted, I'm sure) whereas Comcast was throttling.
     
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Jun 9, 2014, 02:17 PM
 
As I listen to a lot of internet radio, I'm tired of the constant rebuffering of Verizonheimer. Their customer service is horrid. They say they are soooo fast. I thought about demanding they make sure I didn't have rebuffering issues or forget about me paying for what I'm contractually NOT getting.
     
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Jun 9, 2014, 03:52 PM
 
If broadband is vital to you, like life or death, work-related, check if there's a company running an OC line by where you live and see if you can buy into some of their bandwidth. For not much more than the FIOS top tier, I'm now getting service that's 10x faster and doesn't throttle.
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Jun 10, 2014, 08:42 AM
 
Netflix refuses to comply with Verizon’s “cease and desist” demands | Ars Technica

"The current transparency test to which your letter relates is scheduled to end June 16 and we are evaluating rolling it out more broadly," he wrote. "Regardless of this specific test, we will continue to work on ways to communicate network conditions to our consumers. We're also happy to work with you on ways to improve network transparency to our mutual customers."
"You have chosen not to participate in the Open Connect Program, but instead have allowed your network connection to Netflix to degrade until we agreed to pay for augmented interconnection," Hyman wrote. "We brought the data right to your doorstep...all you had to do was open your door."
n his letter to Verizon, Hyman wrote that Netflix's messages "merely let our customers know that the Verizon network is crowded. We have determined this by examining the difference between the speed at which the Verizon network handles Netflix traffic at peak versus non-peak times."

Verizon's cease and desist letter blamed Netflix for poor quality, saying that "Netflix has chosen to continue sending its traffic over these congested routes." The congested routes were mainly in the connections between Verizon and transit providers Cogent and Level 3. Netflix pays these companies to distribute its traffic, and traditionally they have exchanged traffic for free with Internet service providers. Verizon demanded payment to account for the fact that the companies were sending more traffic than they were receiving.

Hyman responded that it is "Verizon's responsibility to provide its customers with the service it has promised them... It is my understanding that Verizon actually upsells customers to higher speed packages based on improved access to video services, including Netflix. Verizon's unwillingness to augment its access ports to major Internet backbone providers is squarely Verizon's fault... To try to shift blame to us for performance issues arising from interconnection congestion is like blaming drivers on a bridge for traffic jams when you're the one who decided to leave three lanes closed during rush hour."
Fight, fight, fight
     
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Jun 10, 2014, 09:11 AM
 
to try to shift blame to us for performance issues arising from interconnection congestion is like blaming drivers on a bridge for traffic jams when you're the one who decided to leave three lanes closed during rush hour."
omg VERIZON is chris christie
     
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Jun 10, 2014, 01:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
I have two choices where I live – capped cable or DSL.
They are thresholds, not caps

Comcast: We Don't Have Caps, We Have 'Data Thresholds' | DSLReports, ISP Information

We have CentruryLink ADSL2 20MB in our area. My sister got an email for high usage during the Jodi Arias trial when she and my mother were streaming the HD feed from the courthouse after HLN and Court TV were no longer carrying it live.
¡Viva Cristo Rey!
     
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Jun 10, 2014, 01:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
They are thresholds, not caps
It's not Comcast and they do call it a cap.
     
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Jul 11, 2014, 09:11 AM
 
There’s “no congestion,” Verizon says, despite continued Netflix problems | Ars Technica
“A few weeks ago, Verizon received an e-mail from a customer in Los Angeles asking why he was not getting a good experience watching Netflix on his 75Mbps FiOS connection,” Young wrote. “He was understandably confused by some of the misleading public accounts that inaccurately suggest widespread congestion that could affect Netflix traffic on Verizon’s network. Worse still were claims that Verizon is deliberately 'throttling' Netflix traffic. This customer wanted to know what was going on and why his performance wasn’t what he hoped. We, too, wanted to get to the bottom of the problem.”

Young went on to say that there is “no congestion anywhere within the Verizon network” but that there is congestion in the links between Netflix’s transit providers and Verizon.

Those links, of course, haven't being upgraded because transit providers such as Cogent refused to pay Verizon to build out extra infrastructure. Instead, Netflix eventually agreed to pay for a direct connection, which should eliminate the transit providers' role in bringing traffic from Netflix to Verizon.
Yeah, and how is that typically fixed? If it's Verizon adding equipment it's your fault.


I also saw this posted in comments recently:
     
Clinically Insane
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Jul 11, 2014, 10:35 AM
 
Like AT&T and Comcast, they refuse to improve infrastructure, despite record profits. I'm waiting for someone to sue them over non-compliance with the TelCo Act of `96, I'm thinking about doing it myself but TN isn't the best state to start that sort of thing.
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Jul 14, 2014, 02:14 PM
 
     
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Jul 14, 2014, 02:33 PM
 
It would help if they wouldn't periodically block my bluray player (how I connect to netflix, amazon) from accessing the internet. Unplugging/plugging in their modem seems to fix it.
     
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Jul 25, 2014, 01:22 PM
 
     
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Jul 25, 2014, 01:50 PM
 
"To TWC’s knowledge, no broadband provider has expressed any intention of prioritizing one class of Internet traffic at the expense of another," the company wrote.
Liar, liar.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
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Games Meister
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Jul 25, 2014, 01:58 PM
 
I'm also confused by the wording. Who owns most of the ISPs? The cable companies!

Also:
If a broadband provider were to approach one of these hyper-giants and threaten to block or degrade access to its site if it refused to pay a significant fee, such a strategy almost certainly would be self-defeating, in light of the immediately hostile reaction of consumers to such conduct.
Isn't that exactly what's happening?!
     
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Jul 25, 2014, 04:35 PM
 

Wow. I don't know what they're smoking over there, but I want some.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
Games Meister
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Jul 30, 2014, 09:32 AM
 
Netflix pays another Mafioso
AT&T might fix Netflix problems for its customers before Verizon does | Ars Technica
"We reached an interconnect agreement with AT&T in May and since then have been working together to provision additional interconnect capacity to improve the viewing experience of our mutual subscribers," a Netflix spokesperson told Ars. "We're now beginning to turn up the connections, a process that should be complete in the coming days."
Maybe I'm missing something, but it sounds like they had the hardware to have non-shitty Netflix standing by, but didn't activate it until they shook them down. Jesus ****.
     
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Jul 30, 2014, 10:30 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Netflix pays another Mafioso
AT&T might fix Netflix problems for its customers before Verizon does | Ars Technica

Maybe I'm missing something, but it sounds like they had the hardware to have non-shitty Netflix standing by, but didn't activate it until they shook them down. Jesus ****.
You have to understand how afraid AT&T was to lose their leverage -- in case Netflix asks for money so that they allow video streaming traffic to AT&T customers
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Jul 30, 2014, 05:24 PM
 
A side effect of all this nonsense is that I no longer care about internet speeds as selling points. 50Mb/sec doesn't mean jack shit to me when they can arbitrarily limit my bandwidth to certain content providers.
     
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Aug 1, 2014, 01:51 AM
 
Word is that a whole bunch of ISPs are going to be reclassified as Title 2 "common carriers" soon, prepare for legal fireworks.

/popcorn

PS. `bout time.
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Games Meister
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Aug 1, 2014, 09:25 AM
 
I'll believe that when I see it.
     
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Aug 1, 2014, 09:54 AM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
Word is that a whole bunch of ISPs are going to be reclassified as Title 2 "common carriers" soon, prepare for legal fireworks.

/popcorn

PS. `bout time.
What's your source? I'd like to make some phone calls about this, if this is the case.
     
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Aug 1, 2014, 10:21 AM
 
Originally Posted by EstaNightshift View Post
What's your source? I'd like to make some phone calls about this, if this is the case.
Sorry, he can't say. It's super secret. It's probably the same source that gave him insider info on the 2015 Mustang.
     
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Aug 1, 2014, 11:54 AM
 
Mankind's only chance is to harness the power of stupid.
     
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Aug 1, 2014, 04:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Sorry, he can't say. It's super secret. It's probably the same source that gave him insider info on the 2015 Mustang.
Poor baby. Here, wipe away those tears.



Originally Posted by EstaNightshift View Post
What's your source? I'd like to make some phone calls about this, if this is the case.
Harry Reid Says He Has The FCC's Back On Net Neutrality
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Aug 1, 2014, 04:13 PM
 
Ah- this is nothing new. Thanks for your source, though. We've written about the possibility of Title II for some time now. Glad Reid's backing it, though.
     
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Aug 1, 2014, 04:22 PM
 
What the hell can Harry Reid do?
     
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Aug 1, 2014, 04:31 PM
 
Well, it just came out Wed night (and I posted that last night), and they had Reid on CNN talking about it today. Really the only man who can do anything is Wheeler, the FCC doesn't even need congress. As per Reid in that interview, the courts have said that Wheeler has the power to reclassify them, all by himself. I just want to see if he has the guts to do it, maybe getting support from someone like the Senate Majority Leader will help him grow a spine (unless this is all more posturing).
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Aug 1, 2014, 04:33 PM
 
Wheeler knows he'll be immediately sued regardless of precedent. And the person who appointed him should stop being so silent on the damn issue.
     
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Aug 1, 2014, 05:17 PM
 
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
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Aug 2, 2014, 09:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
Poor baby. Here, wipe away those tears.
B- for the deflection effort.
     
Clinically Insane
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Aug 3, 2014, 04:19 AM
 
troll elsewhere
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Aug 4, 2014, 09:27 AM
 
A+ for sticking to it, though.
     
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Aug 15, 2014, 10:40 AM
 
How Verizon lets its copper network decay to force phone customers onto fiber | Ars Technica

Brancatelli had problems with DSL and phone service starting about 15 years ago. “I realized that every time it rained, the phones wouldn't work properly,” he said. “About four years ago, it became intractable.”

Wires were corroded, and Verizon technicians covered a vulnerable junction box with a garbage bag to keep it dry, he said. “When you called to complain, they sent someone out to change the garbage bag,” Brancatelli said.

Brancatelli said this went on for "years," but Verizon told Ars that use of the "plastic sheath" is just a "temporary measure."

The sheath is "placed over an open splice or section of cable that is probably wet. The drape is typically open on the bottom to allow the water to drain out," Verizon said.
I'm on verizon dsl and for the past few years heavy rains have dropped my internet connection and tied up my phone line in extreme cases (caused static in most). Now I know I'm not the only one. I'll have to keep an eye out around the neighborhood for draped wires. The best part, is, just like this guy, there is no fiber option in my neighborhood.
     
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Aug 20, 2014, 09:00 AM
 


Netflix ends one of its oldest disputes, agrees to pay Time Warner Cable | Ars Technica

TWC joins Comcast, AT&T, and Verizon in successfully gaining interconnection payments from Netflix.
I feel like I missed one of these agreements in this thread.
     
 
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