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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > You got Ukrainian Conflict in my Malaysian Airline Flight

You got Ukrainian Conflict in my Malaysian Airline Flight
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Games Meister
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Jul 17, 2014, 12:54 PM
 
This ****ing terrible.

Report: Malaysia Airlines flight crashes in Ukraine - CNN.com
A Malaysia Airlines flight from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, has crashed in eastern Ukraine, Russian news agency Interfax reported Thursday.

Malaysia Airlines confirmed that it lost contact with Flight 17 and that the plane's last known position was over Ukrainian airspace, the airline said on Twitter.

The aircraft was "shot down" over Ukraine by "terrorists" operating a Buk surface-to-air missile system, according to the Facebook page of Anton Gerashchenko, adviser to the Ukrainian Interior Ministry. There were 280 passengers killed as well as 15 crew members, Gerashchenko's post reads.
     
Clinically Insane
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Jul 17, 2014, 01:26 PM
 
You'd think it would be SOP to generate flight plans which avoid war zones.
     
Games Meister
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Jul 17, 2014, 01:31 PM
 
Yeah. On the other hand, who knew that rebels had the ability to shoot down a commercial jetliner, either.
     
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Jul 17, 2014, 01:38 PM
 
Hard to believe, airlines operate at high altitudes. SAMs are usually intended for use against helicopters, A10s, or other close-in fighter craft. Either the plane was flying very low, or they had a high-altitude SAM with a target lock. Or the plane wasn't shot down.
     
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Jul 17, 2014, 01:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
Hard to believe, airlines operate at high altitudes. SAMs are usually intended for use against helicopters, A10s, or other close-in fighter craft. Either the plane was flying very low, or they had a high-altitude SAM with a target lock. Or the plane wasn't shot down.
Mankind's only chance is to harness the power of stupid.
     
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Jul 17, 2014, 01:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
Or the plane wasn't shot down.
Or, it was, but not by "terrorists".
     
Clinically Insane
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Jul 17, 2014, 02:17 PM
 
Or they have really sucky planes.
     
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Jul 17, 2014, 02:35 PM
 
It was a Boeing 777. Wikipedia suggests a typical cruise altitude of 35,000 feet (10.6 KM).
     
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Jul 17, 2014, 02:47 PM
 
Initial reports have said it was at 10k metres.
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Jul 17, 2014, 03:32 PM
 
The "rebels" didn't do this, no one really believes that.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
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Jul 17, 2014, 05:03 PM
 
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
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OAW
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Jul 17, 2014, 05:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
The "rebels" didn't do this, no one really believes that.
You have the following possibilities for which party was responsible for shooting down this airline:

1. Ukrainian Military
2. Russian Military
3. Pro-Russian Ukrainian Rebels
4. None of the above

The line between #2 and #3 is "fuzzy" at best. #3 has also shot down several Ukrainian military aircraft in recents weeks. The latest reports say that #2 just shot down a Ukrainian fighter jet in the last day or so. There's no reason to think any sort of #4 is in the mix (unless some terrorist group claims responsibility for blowing up the plane from the inside which hasn't happened as of yet). So IMO that leaves either #1 or some combination of #2/#3. Given that the latter has been shooting down Ukrainian military aircraft recently it's more likely that they shot it down because they mistakenly thought it was military. That being said, the question then becomes will this result in sector wide sanctions against Russia because they either did it directly ... or indirectly because they supplied the SAM system to the Pro-Russian Ukrainian rebels?

OAW
( Last edited by OAW; Jul 17, 2014 at 05:53 PM. )
     
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Jul 17, 2014, 06:39 PM
 
Guys, you are all focusing on the suspicious location. ie - it must have been shot down because of where it was. Certainly possible.

But may I point out the suspicious carrier. Malaysia Airlines lost another Boeing 777-200ER some months ago. Traced to the southern Indian ocean, search ongoing, cause unsolved.

For all we know, it is some unusual operator procedure. Kinda like that Nepal Airlines story a few years ago. Where the airline sacrificed a couple goats to help their plane repairs along.
     
OAW
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Jul 17, 2014, 06:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
Guys, you are all focusing on the suspicious location. ie - it must have been shot down because of where it was. Certainly possible.

But may I point out Malaysia Airlines lost another Boeing 777-200ER some months ago. Traced to the southern Indian ocean, search ongoing, cause unsolved.

For all we know, it is some unusual operator procedure. Kinda like that Nepal Airlines story a few years ago. Where the airline sacrificed a couple goats to help their plane repairs along.
It's not just the location. Radar and heat signature data already obtained shows the plane was shot down. There's very little question as to what happened. The outstanding question is who shot it down?

The United States also has concluded that the plane was shot down, but hasn't pinpointed who was responsible, a senior U.S. official told CNN's Barbara Starr.

The Boeing 777 carrying 295 people fell from the sky near the town of Torez in the Donetsk region of eastern Ukraine, according to a Facebook post from a top Ukrainian official, as it flew at about 10,000 meters (nearly 33,000 feet) on the way from Amsterdam to Malaysia.

A radar system saw a surface-to-air missile system turn on and track an aircraft right before the plane went down, the senior U.S. official said. A second system saw a heat signature at the time the airliner was hit, the official said. The United States is analyzing the trajectory of the missile to try to learn where the attack came from.

U.S. official: Malaysia Airlines plane shot down - CNN.com

OAW
     
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Jul 18, 2014, 08:42 AM
 
Horrific. Hopefully Europe can pull together on sanctions and reel Putins expansionist desires in for a while, however, so much of Europe depends so much on Russian gas that Putin seems to be relatively untouchable.

This is what happens when democratic countries pretend that a person who is effectively a dictator with grand ambitions is actually an elected representative like themselves and plays by their rules.
     
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Jul 18, 2014, 12:04 PM
 
     
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Jul 18, 2014, 01:53 PM
 
Two observations:

Write out the full "holy shit" you wusses.

I don't agree the response should be "**** them, they're spies", or, to fling SAMs at them for that matter, but I'm still wondering WTF they were doing at that altitude in a goddamn war zone.

Because usually, that's spy shit.
     
Games Meister
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Jul 18, 2014, 01:58 PM
 
Some poor family lost family in this flight as well the missing one from a few months back. I don't think I could fly again if I were them.
     
Games Meister
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Jul 18, 2014, 02:00 PM
 
     
Clinically Insane
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Jul 18, 2014, 02:05 PM
 
Mea culpa.

I switched the meters and feet. Just like NASA.
     
Clinically Insane
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Jul 18, 2014, 02:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Some poor family lost family in this flight as well the missing one from a few months back. I don't think I could fly again if I were them.
I could fly, there's just a single airline I may avoid.

Actually, despite having had no family lost, I'm going to avoid it anyways.
     
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Jul 18, 2014, 03:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Mea culpa.

I switched the meters and feet. Just like NASA.
Basically, the answer is "shouldn't be a problem. Assuming that Putin has not supplied Ukranian rebels with high-tech rocketry."

Which, well, you know.
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Clinically Insane
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Jul 18, 2014, 03:11 PM
 
But the article seemed to imply other than the psychos at Lufthansa, the only people not avoiding the area are CIS national airlines.
     
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Jul 19, 2014, 03:53 AM
 
With tacit support (or at least no effective censure) from China and Russia newer buddy countries such as Brazil I don't think Putin will feel he needs to do anything to rein the separatists in.

He may even feel that a Russian only crash investigation is doable. I think he really doesn't care what the US or Europe thinks, Ukraine is shafted and there are several more countries bordering Russia very much on his list.
     
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Jul 21, 2014, 12:04 PM
 
Time to reset the "Russian reset button?"
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Jul 21, 2014, 03:09 PM
 
One of those buttons with the clear plastic shield to keep you from pushing it on accident
     
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Jul 21, 2014, 06:15 PM
 
It looks like it's broken.
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Jul 21, 2014, 06:20 PM
 
These will make it into someones campaign ads.



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Jul 21, 2014, 09:20 PM
 
followed by?
     
   
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