Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Uber, Tipping, & Social Norms

Uber, Tipping, & Social Norms (Page 2)
Thread Tools
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Online
Reply With Quote
Jan 12, 2017, 02:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
How? Did they work more hours or did their manager increase their hourly wage? All else being equal, it doesn't matter how well the restaurant is doing, if you make $10/hr and work 40 hours you're making $400.

Disclaimer: I didn't read the article.
I skimmed. I think it was a wage increase.
( Last edited by subego; Jan 12, 2017 at 03:02 PM. )
     
OAW  (op)
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: May 2001
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 12, 2017, 03:06 PM
 
Indeed. There was a baseline wage increase for front of the house staff. Along with automatic service charge evenly split between front and back of the house staff.

OAW
     
Professional Poster
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Irvine, CA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 14, 2017, 10:16 AM
 
I don't like tipping at all, in any situation.

Reasons:
1) People say that it because workers only make $2.25 an hour (or so). How about places in CA where minimum wage is probably around $9.00? People here still tip 15+%, same as in any other state.
2) It is a form of a bribe. Pay more tips, get better service. You should get good service regardless of tips. Many countries provide this.
3) The out-the-door-price for your food is not transparent. Combine tips plus state tax + anything else should be on the menu as in one price. Many other countries do this.
4) You know that the vast majority of people do not report anywhere near the real amount of tips that they receive on their tax return.
5) The wait staff earn 90+% of the tips perhaps, whereas the cooks work just as hard, if not harder.
6) Why pay 8x more tips for a person who worked just as hard telling me about my $8 hamburger versus telling me about my $64 steak dinner?
{{{ mindwaves }}}
     
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Iowa, how long can this be? Does it really ruin the left column spacing?
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 16, 2017, 02:31 PM
 
Trying to decide who works harder is murky territory. The waitstaff is expected to be attentive to your needs throughout the dining experience, and the implication is that more attentiveness/better quality service results in a better tip. The same relationship with the kitchen doesn't really work.
     
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: inside 128, north of 90
Status: Online
Reply With Quote
Jan 17, 2017, 02:42 PM
 
I just looked this up, and it seems states vary on what they add to the minimum $2.13. Some add nothing, some add something, and some require servers to earn the complete minimum wage (as you say, CA)

https://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped.htm

Interesting!

I think interacting with the public merits an extra percentage, compared to cooks/busboys.
     
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Australia, the greatest country in the world, (Australians keep telling me).
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Feb 11, 2017, 05:41 AM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
So not too long ago my wife was in London. Requested an Uber around midnight to take her back to her hotel. The vehicle arrived shortly thereafter which is typically the case more often than not. And always faster than catching a cab. She entered the vehicle and the driver headed off. A few minutes later he asks her if she has any British pounds. She said she did not. He then asked if she had any US dollars. She again said she did not and asked why? He said for a tip. She politely told him "I'm sorry but I don't have any cash on me at all". He immediately pulled up over and told her "Get out." She said "Excuse me?". And then he yelled "Get the f*ck out!" and promptly accused her of lying about not having any cash. Mind you he put her out in the middle of a dark street. So she had to walk by herself to a well-lit intersection to try to get another ride ... being approached by strange men along the way. She tried to call another Uber but for some reason the app wouldn't work after that. Fortunately she was able to hail a taxi and get back to her hotel safely. Interestingly enough, the Uber app didn't display the ride at all in her Trip History so when I emailed customer service after this incident I couldn't include the driver's name or vehicle info. I figure he tried to game the system by "cancelling" the ride after it had already started. But hopefully they can identify this asshole who jeopardized my wife's safety in this manner by seeing who responded to the ride request and ban him from being a Uber driver ever again. (Note to self/wife: Always screenshot the driver's info who picks you up going forward. )
OAW
Is it possible your wife got into a mini cab? Not the Uber car, and this was a big misunderstanding ?
     
OAW  (op)
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: May 2001
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Feb 11, 2017, 10:01 AM
 
Originally Posted by moonmonkey View Post
Is it possible your wife got into a mini cab? Not the Uber car, and this was a big misunderstanding ?
Nope. Not at all.

OAW
     
OAW  (op)
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: May 2001
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 1, 2017, 01:26 AM
 
This is definitely related to Uber and somewhat related to the issue of tipping. But a video of an argument the CEO of Uber had with an Uber Black driver has gone viral.

Like Facebook’s Mark Zuckerberg before him, Kalanick is trying to learn how to empathize and communicate. But Kalanick at 40, compared with 32-year-old Zuckerberg, is having to change his ways later in life, and he’s often reluctant to tread too far from his intuitions. Even when Kalanick tries to empathize in his own way—which often means jumping into a dialectical argument of sorts— his temper can occasionally flare.

In Kamel's car, for example, Kalanick is seemingly at ease as the ride ends and his friends hop out of the car.

“You have a good one,” says the driver.

Kalanick says with an air of familiarity, “Good to see you man.”

Kamel replies, “Good to see you, too.”

Kalanick thinks the ride is over. But having the CEO in his car is an opportunity Kamel has been waiting for.

“I don’t know if you remember me, but it’s fine,” Kamel says. The pair begin talking shop, and Kalanick explains that they’re going to cut down on the number of black cars, which will reduce competition and should be good for Kamel.

Then Kamel says what every driver has been dying to tell Kalanick: “You’re raising the standards, and you’re dropping the prices.”

Kalanick: “We’re not dropping the prices on black.”

Kamel: “But in general the whole price is—”

Kalanick: “We have to; we have competitors; otherwise, we’d go out of business.”

Kamel: “Competitors? Man, you had the business model in your hands. You could have the prices you want, but you choose to buy everybody a ride.”

Kalanick: “No, no no. You misunderstand me. We started high-end. We didn’t go low-end because we wanted to. We went low-end because we had to because we’d be out of business.”

Kamel: “What? Lyft? It’s a piece of cake right there.”

Kalanick: “It seems like a piece of cake because I’ve beaten them. But if I didn’t do the things I did, we would have been beaten, I promise.”

The two bat that idea around, and Kamel brings the conversation back to his losses.

Kamel: “But people are not trusting you anymore. … I lost $97,000 because of you. I'm bankrupt because of you. Yes, yes, yes. You keep changing every day. You keep changing every day.”

Kalanick: “Hold on a second, what have I changed about Black? What have I changed?”

Kamel: “You changed the whole business. You dropped the prices.”

Kalanick: “On black?”

Kamel: “Yes, you did.”

Kalanick begins to lose his temper. “Bullshit,” he says.

Kamel: “We started with $20.”

Kalanick: “Bullshit.”

Kamel: “We started with $20. How much is the mile now, $2.75?”

Kalanick: “You know what?”

Kamel: “What?”

Kalanick: “Some people don't like to take responsibility for their own shit. They blame everything in their life on somebody else. Good luck!”

Kamel: “Good luck to you, but I know [you're not] going to go far.”

The door slams. Kamel drives away. Later, the Uber driver app prompts him to rate Kalanick, as he does all his riders. Kamel gives him one star.
In Video, Uber CEO Argues With Driver Over Falling Fares | Bloomberg.com

Personally I think some of the other headlines are overstated. Kalanick got a little hot under the collar but he wasn't "berating" the driver as some reports have suggested. That being said, I think the they were talking past each other. And they both were right from their own perspective. Kalanick insisted that he had not lowered the prices on Uber Black. But it's not clear about the timeframe he was referring to. Kamel seemed focused on losing money due to lower prices. But it's not clear if he meant lower prices on Uber Black which would impact him directly? Or lower prices in Uber's downmarket service offerings (aka "the whole business") which indirectly had the effect of lowering demand for the premium Uber Black service?

As other competitors like Lyft have entered the market prices have indeed fallen. Especially in the downmarket services. Tipping could alleviate that somewhat. But so could Uber paying its drivers a larger percentage of the fare. OTOH Uber and its competitors are losing money hand over fist as they fight for market share. The low prices are great for consumers but it sucks for drivers. So is allowing tipping the best way to put more money in the pockets of the drivers? Or should prices be increased to enable a more viable business model for all the stakeholders?

OAW
     
Professional Poster
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Irvine, CA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 1, 2017, 03:18 AM
 
I prefer Lyft as it is cheaper, but I have no qualms taking an (occasional) Uber.

edit: I have my own car, but sometimes better to let someone else drive.
{{{ mindwaves }}}
     
Mac Elite
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: UKland
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 1, 2017, 03:59 AM
 
Originally Posted by mindwaves View Post
I prefer Lyft as it is cheaper, but I have no qualms taking an (occasional) Uber.

edit: I have my own car, but sometimes better to let someone else drive.
I would never take an Uber.

This news item has certainly been overblown. The BBC carried it as Kalanik swearing at his driver, which is a stretch. However the company seems perpetually mired in this kind of story. If its not this its abusive sexism in the workplace, or data infringements, or employment abuse. It's clear that the company ethos comes from the man at the helm and little or no thought for the social effects of the businesses policies.

While it's true that businesses have no obligation to behave in any particular way, the power to destroy his business model and signal other businesses is as ever in the hands of the consumers.

And so I would never take an Uber.
     
OAW  (op)
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: May 2001
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 1, 2017, 01:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
Personally I think some of the other headlines are overstated. Kalanick got a little hot under the collar but he wasn't "berating" the driver as some reports have suggested. That being said, I think the they were talking past each other. And they both were right from their own perspective. Kalanick insisted that he had not lowered the prices on Uber Black. But it's not clear about the timeframe he was referring to. Kamel seemed focused on losing money due to lower prices. But it's not clear if he meant lower prices on Uber Black which would impact him directly? Or lower prices in Uber's downmarket service offerings (aka "the whole business") which indirectly had the effect of lowering demand for the premium Uber Black service?

OAW
So it turns out that the driver's concern was what is highlighted above.

Kamel, who is 37, told NBC News why he chose to stand up to Kalanick.

"Uber kept dropping prices every season to gain more ridership to satisfy their growth, and it didn't matter to Uber if the driver is not even making minimum wage," he said. "And the worst part is, they call us partners, [but] they make the rules, set the price and they even choose the cars you can use."
He said that Uber Black drivers like him are expected to drive recent versions of certain models of car but have been squeezed by the company's shift toward the budget end of the market.

He told NBC News that veteran drivers for Uber Black, which was Uber's original service, should be treated with more respect because of their investment in high-end vehicles.

"The real issue is that the first Uber black car drivers are the real investors in Uber," he said. "How come the angel investors in Uber turned their $20,000 into millions, but the original Uber Black car drivers got nothing?"

He added that he and fellow luxury drivers have been "undercut with cheaper products [such as UberX and UberSelect] and they lost their capital because Uber decided they don't want Lincoln Town Cars anymore," referring to a model previously favored by the company.
I mean this is a tough one. Uber certainly wasn't going to cede the lower end of the market to its competitors. But it does leave those original Uber Black drivers who invested big money into a luxury vehicle for this express purpose in a pickle. If drivers went out and purchased a Lincoln Town Car to work with Uber then there's no reason the company should snatch the rug out from under them like that. That's a nice luxury vehicle anyway you slice it. So it's BS to do that to them. But what do you say to the Uber Black drivers (regardless of vehicle) that are getting considerably less Uber Black fares because demand has fallen so much due to the downmarket Uber X and Uber Select services? That's a much harder question and I can't fault the company for going after that market. Perhaps they could put together some sort of program to compensate the early Uber Black drivers who invested in those high end vehicles?

OAW
     
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Online
Reply With Quote
Mar 2, 2017, 03:04 AM
 
Unfortunately, what I say to all these people is "better start thinking about finding different jobs". This has five years worth of gas left. Tops.
     
OAW  (op)
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: May 2001
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 2, 2017, 08:48 AM
 
^^^

There is that. And truck drivers too. Self-driving vehicles will take over all of that.

OAW
     
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Online
Reply With Quote
Mar 2, 2017, 12:58 PM
 
Which with truck drivers, I'm sure I don't need to mention is the number one job in the country in terms of people employed.
     
OAW  (op)
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: May 2001
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 2, 2017, 05:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Which with truck drivers, I'm sure I don't need to mention is the number one job in the country in terms of people employed.
Indeed. And in addition to that it's one of THE best paying jobs available for someone without a college degree.

OAW
     
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Iowa, how long can this be? Does it really ruin the left column spacing?
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 3, 2017, 10:12 AM
 
Really? $43k and a shitty job where you're gone all of the time?

https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/t...RCH_KO0,12.htm

Plumbers make $50k, electricians are $51k, project managers are $90k, HVAC tech is $43k, even a store manager is $46k. All of those jobs you could start at the bottom or as an apprentice and work your way up.
     
 
Thread Tools
Forum Links
Forum Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On
Top
Privacy Policy
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:41 PM.
All contents of these forums © 1995-2015 MacNN. All rights reserved.
Branding + Design: www.gesamtbild.com
vBulletin v.3.8.8 © 2000-2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2