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You are here: MacNN Forums > Software - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac OS X > Dump OS9 and go to 10?

Dump OS9 and go to 10?
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ARK
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Aug 27, 2002, 11:43 AM
 
Just purchased a Dual Ghz Quicksilver for home last week and we are making the jump to OS10.2 at work. Im not using any apps that are 9 native anymore, therefore I feel like I probably wont need OS9 at home. Warcraft3 and Diablo2 are also OS 10 versions. So everything at home now is currently OS 10.

Everything is 10 at work, with the exception of Quark. Which I dont feel the need to install at home. So this leads me to wonder why I should keep 9 at home. I dont use it and all my apps at home are OSX.

So has anyone else trashed OS9 and just gone straight OSX?
( Last edited by ARK; Aug 28, 2002 at 01:06 AM. )
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Aug 27, 2002, 11:50 AM
 
I trashed it since Photoshop 7 came out, and I love my OS9-free system, no OS9 clutter. As long as all your apps work in X I see NO reason to keep OS9, especially on that Dual 1Ghz.
     
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Aug 27, 2002, 11:53 AM
 
Originally posted by ARK:
So has anyone else trashed OS9 and just gone straight OSX?
i dont use os 9 day to day, but i will probably never get rid of it (well, never say never.) it is there for emergency uses

but, if i ever need it, i know it will be there. Especially, if i ever f*** up something bad in X, i know os 9 will be there to fix things up.
     
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Aug 27, 2002, 12:22 PM
 
Originally posted by Vanquish:
I trashed it since Photoshop 7 came out, and I love my OS9-free system, no OS9 clutter. As long as all your apps work in X I see NO reason to keep OS9, especially on that Dual 1Ghz.
In order to trash OS9 what all do I have to do? Is there anything else other than trashing MacOS9's System Folder, MacOS9 Applications folder, and MacOS9 Desktop folder?
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Aug 27, 2002, 12:32 PM
 
Originally posted by ARK:


In order to trash OS9 what all do I have to do? Is there anything else other than trashing MacOS9's System Folder, MacOS9 Applications folder, and MacOS9 Desktop folder?
I don't see what the point of trashing it is. It's not like it's interfering with your life, is it?

I keep Classic around (1) Because you never know, I might actually need it; (2) as a troubleshooting tool. DiskWarrior works under it and if needs be I can launch Classic to get rid of a recalcitrant file or folder. Plus if anything breaks in X - and it has been known to happen - I can go back to 9 to finish the job.

Erasing OS 9 completely seems to me to be either foolhardy or posturing, but I guess it's your choice.
     
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Aug 27, 2002, 01:01 PM
 
Yeah. I rarely use OS 9, and when I do, it's not for my purposes par se, it's for my clients'. However, even if I didn't use OS 9 for a few months, I'd still keep it around for much longer than that. Because, what if, one day, for some bizarre, unforseeable reason, I need to use it? Installing it is a pain. It only takes up a few hundred megs, that's not so bad. And OK, in my case, it has its own partition that's a lot bigger than that, but my Titanium has a 40 gig hard drive, I'm not sweatin' it.
     
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Aug 27, 2002, 01:21 PM
 
Originally posted by Mr Heliums:


I don't see what the point of trashing it is. It's not like it's interfering with your life, is it?

I keep Classic around (1) Because you never know, I might actually need it; (2) as a troubleshooting tool. DiskWarrior works under it and if needs be I can launch Classic to get rid of a recalcitrant file or folder. Plus if anything breaks in X - and it has been known to happen - I can go back to 9 to finish the job.

Erasing OS 9 completely seems to me to be either foolhardy or posturing, but I guess it's your choice.
Well no its not interfering my life but I dont use it for anything. I like to have a clean hard drive and if there is something I dont think I will need I dont see why I should keep it.

As for your number (1) I just dont see where I would need it. All of my apps are now OSX at home. And I dont have Disk warrior. The only one I have is Tech Tool Pro and its prob too old to run on 9.2.2.

(2) It makes more since to me to purchase a disk utility for X then it does to run a disk utility for OS9 to fix problems in OSX. And if OSX breaks just startup from the OSX cd like we used to do when we only had 9. In the past we started up from the OS9 cd and that was fine. We didnt use an OS8.5 disk utility to repair OS9 did we? Again it just seems logical to use an OSX disk utility to fix OSX problems.

Besides, Apple has already phased out their development on OS9. I would like to just get rid of that classic portion of OSX and not worry about it. OS9 just seems so archaic compared to OS10.
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Aug 27, 2002, 01:27 PM
 
Actually....I found out my SCSI hard drive is not recognized by 10.2 which is loaded onto my B&W g3. So I don't know exactly what I'm going to do with that machine.


On my powerbook...I got a question. I just got a 700 mhz one at the beginning of this month, and I wanted to do a clean install of 10.2 last night. but I wanted to have classic on there just in case too.

However...when I tried installing off the 9.2.1 or the 9.2 disks, I kept getting a "you cannont install this software on this machine, see documentation" message, after I had reformmated the hd and partitioned it off. It was really weird...in fact, the computer wouldn't even boot off the 9.2 disk, it just kept flashing.

So I don't even know if I even have the choice of putting 9.x back on, it's just refusing to be installed.


How do I load 9.x as a disc image if I chose not to explicitly install it? I heard somebody mention you could do this.
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Aug 27, 2002, 01:29 PM
 
I've been classic free since a couple of months..
     
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Aug 27, 2002, 01:59 PM
 
Originally posted by Vanquish:
I trashed it since Photoshop 7 came out, and I love my OS9-free system, no OS9 clutter. As long as all your apps work in X I see NO reason to keep OS9, especially on that Dual 1Ghz.
In order to trash OS9 what all do I have to do? Is there anything else other than trashing MacOS9's System Folder, MacOS9 Applications folder, and MacOS9 Desktop folder?
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Aug 27, 2002, 02:30 PM
 
Can't you just reformat that partition in your hd? Or is Jaguar on there too?
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Aug 27, 2002, 02:43 PM
 
on my iBook I'm running classic free. on my G4 at home I have just a core system install of OS 9.2.2.
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Aug 27, 2002, 02:50 PM
 
Originally posted by ARK:


In order to trash OS9 what all do I have to do? Is there anything else other than trashing MacOS9's System Folder, MacOS9 Applications folder, and MacOS9 Desktop folder?
That's about it.
     
ARK  (op)
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Aug 27, 2002, 02:54 PM
 
Originally posted by kentuckyfried:
Can't you just reformat that partition in your hd? Or is Jaguar on there too?
It ships all on one partition. I didnt see the need to change it at the time.
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Aug 27, 2002, 02:58 PM
 
Originally posted by kentuckyfried:
Actually....I found out my SCSI hard drive is not recognized by 10.2 which is loaded onto my B&W g3. So I don't know exactly what I'm going to do with that machine.
Is that a pre-installed (BTO) SCSI-card you are referring to?
That's because mine is, and it's recognized by 10.2,
leaving me the question; can I use an external SCSI HD as my bootdisk?

On topic:
ARK, you have a very large HD with your QS.
Why bother trashing OS 9 ?
I keep it there for emergency cases, not having occured so far though.
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Aug 27, 2002, 04:05 PM
 
correction: That's my scsi CD-r burner which is attached to the back of the scsi hd of my 400 mhz b&w g3. That one is not being recognized, but somebody on here posted a hack to fix it that I will try later.


As for the issue of classic.....I just remembered, if I want to run VPC QUICKLY (instead of the POS OS X version), I need to have classic available to run the older version of VPC. My friend pointed out that b/c VPC is a memory hog, but OS X delegates memory as equally as possible between apps, VPC 5.0 will not run fast anytime soon.

I may need VPC to run some crummy structural analysis apps...when on earth is somebody going to make some for OS X?!
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Aug 27, 2002, 04:46 PM
 
May as well keep classic around just in case. It doesn't take up much HD space, and you never know when you'll need classic to run some old app. It would suck to need it and not have it, while staring at gigabytes worth of free HD space.
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Aug 27, 2002, 09:56 PM
 
Originally posted by ARK:


In order to trash OS9 what all do I have to do? Is there anything else other than trashing MacOS9's System Folder, MacOS9 Applications folder, and MacOS9 Desktop folder?
Originally posted by lookmark:


That's about it.
don't forget the pesky os 9 "documents" folder! for all you will have to change their permissions or delete them as root. there are also a few invisible system 9 files, off the top of my head i can't remember what they are--well no the one on the top of my head is the vm file, which if you are running virtual memory under 9 is a good size. there are others.

as far as keeping 9 for "emergencies," i suppose you could always boot up from a system 9 disk, if you have it. if not, i wouldn't worry too much about running os 9 disk utilities on X problems, because for X these are essentially worthless.

--you don't need to defrag an X drive
--fsck -y can scan and then repair anomalies for you
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Aug 27, 2002, 10:35 PM
 
Originally posted by ARK:
...so naturally I upgraded them with the OSX versions from work.
Naturally, isn't that called software piracy? Did you ask your employer? Isn't that a sackable offence?

And there you go, posting it in a public forum.
     
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Aug 27, 2002, 10:42 PM
 
I haven't booted in OS 9 for almost two years now, and I haven't used Classic for almost a year. I still keep OS 9 around, though, because it's pretty small, I have the space, and you never know.
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Aug 28, 2002, 12:44 AM
 
Originally posted by Clive:


Naturally, isn't that called software piracy? Did you ask your employer? Isn't that a sackable offence?

And there you go, posting it in a public forum.
Well, I would consider it piracy if I didnt have the OS9 versions. But I do own them and since I take work home.. were allowed.
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Aug 28, 2002, 01:41 AM
 
I keep OS 9 installed incase I **** something up bad in X or if I want to play some older game. But you might want to make a Classic disk image to mount whenever you need Classic.
     
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Aug 28, 2002, 03:23 AM
 
No point deleting it.

Keep it incase you need to boot into it to fix stuff up, or whatever. Maybe you'll get a rush of nostalgia one day... *cough*
     
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Aug 28, 2002, 05:22 AM
 
Quick and dirty instructions for installing/copying Mac OS 9 onto a Classic disk image:

1. Launch Disk Copy (in the Utilities folder).

2. Select "New Image" from the File or Dock menu.

3. In the new dialogue that pops up, select a suitable location for the new disk image (I put it on a separate partition together with the VPC disk images, for coherence), give it a suitable name (I chose "Classic" - without quotes! - in both fields); then select a suitable size (also depending on if you already have an existing installation to copy over to the image; I selected the 500 MB option), choose the "Mac OS Extended" format (default), and the "No Encryption" (default) option. Once the image is created (it should, as far as I can tell, be uncompressed - and *writable*, of course), it will mount on the desktop.

4. Install Mac OS 9 (and update it, if you have an older version than 9.2.2) onto the mounted disk image or drag your existing Mac OS 9 System Folder, etc. onto the image.

5. Open Terminal (in Utilities) and type:

sudo bless -folder "path to the system folder on the disk image" -folder9 "path to the system folder on the disk image" -bootBlocks

(thanks to CharlesS for this suggestion from a previous thread).

In practice, just type sudo bless -folder, add a space, double-click your new Classic disk image, and drag the System Folder onto the Terminal window: this will automatically create the "path to the system folder on the disk image" entry; of course, repeat the same after the -folder9 entry.

When the command has been typed OK, hit the return key and give your administrator password: the System Folder on the disk image will be blessed and ready for use with Classic.

6. Open System Preferences: here, it is best to first launch the Startup Disk pane and select the disk image as a startup disk the first time (choose to modify the startup disk when prompted to); then, re-select the previous (10.2) startup disk and save the change to return to the previous state.

7. Finally, open the Classic preference pane and wait for the scanning of the volumes to complete; then select the mounted disk image (with its blessed System Folder) as the Classic startup volume, and start Classic: you will probably be prompted to update some components in the System Folder (choose to update them, of course) - and, voilà, Mac OS 9 loads from the mounted disk image (with optional happy Mac)!

8. Shut down Classic, optionally rebuild the Desktop file (second tab in the Classic pane), and unmount (eject) the disk image from the OS X desktop. Then, start Classic again: surprise (an *excellent* surprise!) - Classic *automatically* mounts the disk image and launches the environment...

(... I hope these instruction are detailed enough; if I omitted something, you'll probably figure it out yourself, anyway.)

With Classic on a disk image, one can keep a "clean" root directory (OS X only) and use the Classic environment à la Virtual PC + XDarwin, essentially; however, you can't - AFAIK - autonomously *boot* the computer from an OS 9 System Folder on a disk image (which, anyway, seems exacly to be what Apple will prevent in new Macs starting from 2003!) - so, Classic on a disk image is only useful as long as all your Mac OS 9 apps actually work well in the Classic environment (most of them should do, anyway).

P.S.: BTW, having done a clean install of Jaguar, I used Classic on a disk image to re-install AppleWorks 6 (a Classic-only installer for 6.0.1; the 6.2.4 updater is OS X native, and worked correctly, even installing some elements - which, of course, can be removed afterwards if you don't use AW in Classic - onto the disk image) - it worked perfectly!
( Last edited by Sven G; Aug 28, 2002 at 06:44 AM. )
     
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Aug 28, 2002, 11:24 AM
 
Originally posted by Cipher13:


Keep it incase you need to boot into it to fix stuff up, or whatever. Maybe you'll get a rush of nostalgia one day... *cough*
Good old OS 9! I do miss it sometimes.
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Dec 1, 2002, 06:00 PM
 
Sven G,

I followed the instructions but when I try to start classic from the classic system prefs, it says:

Classic Startup found no system folder on the boot volume from which to start Classic.

I have selected the system folder from my os9 image (which has 9.2.2 installed). Any help?
     
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Dec 1, 2002, 07:12 PM
 
Originally posted by gorgonzola:
I haven't booted in OS 9 for almost two years now, and I haven't used Classic for almost a year. I still keep OS 9 around, though, because it's pretty small, I have the space, and you never know.
exactly. I haven't used 9 in over a year also and last night in order to watch some flash anaimations I needed to boot up classic.

It's worth the small amount of HD as a "just in case" mechanism. Otherwise it does no harm.
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Dec 1, 2002, 07:27 PM
 
I'd keep it around since you have the space. When I upgraded to 10.2 I did a clean install, and didn't bother to figure out how to save my existing copy of OS 9, Moreover, I somehow lost the original OS 9 CD. I didn't care, since I never used Classic or OS 9 anyways (except on DiskWarrior, which has its own copy on its CD.) Within a month of doing this, though, I discovered not one but TWO things that I badly wanted to do and could only do using Classic. And since both are a bit arcane (I mean, how big a market is there for using Kant's complete works on CD-Rom on a Mac?), the likelihood of getting OS X upgrades in the foreseeable future seemed remote. Naturally, every copy of OS 9 I could find wouldn't run on my machine, so I ended up having to send Apple $19.95 (S&H) for a new OS 9 CD. The moral being: You Never Know when you'll turn out to need OS 9, but it will probably be shortly after you decide to trash it.
     
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Dec 2, 2002, 04:43 AM
 
Originally posted by pliny:
--you don't need to defrag an X drive
Where'd you get that? OS X gets plenty fragmented.

Just keep OS 9 around. It's worth having. Trim it down if you're worried about space--a lot of it can go.
     
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Dec 2, 2002, 04:59 AM
 
I use OS X for all my day-to-day stuff, but still haven't trashed OS 9. I don't really see why one would need to remove it, short of being low on hard disk space. I'd rather have it available and not use it than delete it and later realize I need it for something.
     
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Dec 2, 2002, 06:04 AM
 
Originally posted by Andrea_W:
Sven G,

I followed the instructions but when I try to start classic from the classic system prefs, it says:

Classic Startup found no system folder on the boot volume from which to start Classic.

I have selected the system folder from my os9 image (which has 9.2.2 installed). Any help?
Hmmm... strange... I saw that you also posted on Mac OS X Hints, where there's a better version of this hint. You might want to try to repeat the process: maybe the culprit is the bless command part...? Try to omit the quotation marks, and simply drag and drop the System Folder from the new Classic disk image onto the Terminal window after each of the -folder/folder9 entries; also try to quit the System Preferences and relaunch them after having completed all the steps in the hint... With a little troubleshooting "fantasy", it should work!

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Dec 2, 2002, 01:01 PM
 
Originally posted by Sven G:


Hmmm... strange... I saw that you also posted on Mac OS X Hints, where there's a better version of this hint. You might want to try to repeat the process: maybe the culprit is the bless command part...? Try to omit the quotation marks, and simply drag and drop the System Folder from the new Classic disk image onto the Terminal window after each of the -folder/folder9 entries; also try to quit the System Preferences and relaunch them after having completed all the steps in the hint... With a little troubleshooting "fantasy", it should work!
I did do the bless thing without quotes the first time.

On a suggestion from a friend, I copied the OS 9 system folder from my image to my hard drive (which is my boot disk). Then it worked (and still appeared to be running OS 9 from the image). I guess for some reason, it needed to think that the system folder was on my boot disk.

If anyone has any other suggestions, let me know. I can delete the OS 9 system folder off my hard drive and try them. If they don't work, I can always copy it back... Sure would be nice to get this working without two copies of the OS 9 system folder!
     
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Dec 2, 2002, 08:43 PM
 
I completely trashed OS9 over the weekend. I didn't even give it one last boot up for posterity
I haven't used it in several months, and I can't foresee any particular use for it. If anything, I have a blank 1.5GB "scratch" partition on my hard drive, so I can always install it quickly from the CD if I should need it for some reason.
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Dec 3, 2002, 01:05 AM
 
Originally posted by kentuckyfried:
On my powerbook...I got a question. I just got a 700 mhz one at the beginning of this month, and I wanted to do a clean install of 10.2 last night. but I wanted to have classic on there just in case too.

However...when I tried installing off the 9.2.1 or the 9.2 disks, I kept getting a "you cannont install this software on this machine, see documentation" message, after I had reformmated the hd and partitioned it off. It was really weird...in fact, the computer wouldn't even boot off the 9.2 disk, it just kept flashing.

So I don't even know if I even have the choice of putting 9.x back on, it's just refusing to be installed.

How do I load 9.x as a disc image if I chose not to explicitly install it? I heard somebody mention you could do this.
Do you mean you got a 700Mhz iBook? If so, the rest of my post will be useful, otherwise, disregard. (I don't remember any 700Mhz PowerBooks.) Maybe some of this would point you in the right direction regardless.

The new iBooks don't come with retail OS 9 CDs. The CDs you are trying to use were most likey made before the new iBooks were released, and thus don't have the requisite system enablers. Here is what you can do:

1) Insert iBook Restore CD 1 and mount the "General OS 9 Content" image. It is a hidden file, so you can open terminal and type:

open "/Volumes/iBook Restore CD/.images/OS9General.dmg"

2) The General OS 9 Content disc is now mounted. Copy the "System Folder" to your hard drive.

3) Open System Preferences -> Startup Disk and you should be able to select the OS 9.2.2 System Folder. You can now boot into OS 9 if you want, or select that folder for Classic.

I'm not sure if that OS 9 folder is a full install... if not perhaps you can use your full OS 9 retail CD to do a full install over the top of it.
( Last edited by flatcatch; Dec 3, 2002 at 04:02 AM. )

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Dec 3, 2002, 06:18 AM
 
Originally posted by Andrea_W:

I can delete the OS 9 system folder off my hard drive and try them. If they don't work, I can always copy it back... Sure would be nice to get this working without two copies of the OS 9 system folder!
Yes, try to delete that folder and start Classic; also see if the System Folder on the mounted Classic disk image has the "9" badge on it: otherwise, you might want to select that folder as a startup disk (temporarily: see the hint), and also log out and in again. You should try all these rather obvious things, which you can do without any risks if you have a backup of your Mac OS 9 system...

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Dec 3, 2002, 09:51 AM
 
Originally posted by Sven G:


Yes, try to delete that folder and start Classic; also see if the System Folder on the mounted Classic disk image has the "9" badge on it: otherwise, you might want to select that folder as a startup disk (temporarily: see the hint), and also log out and in again. You should try all these rather obvious things, which you can do without any risks if you have a backup of your Mac OS 9 system...
Turns out it worked after I deleted the System Folder I copied onto the hard disk. I had to go through this for each login user on my box. (Copy the System Folder from the image to my hard disk, start classic in system prefs and select the System Folder on the image, and then delete the System Folder on the hard disk.) I guess for some reason, it needed an OS 9 System Folder on the boot volume before Classic would start for the first time (for each user). But after the first time, it didn't needed it anymore. Weird, but I'm glad it's working!
     
   
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