[galarneau]

Apple gets off it's ass and also comes out with a totally updated AppleWorks 7 (or whatever they wanna call it).

It has to be rewritten to look and feel like an OS X app (Carbon or Cocoa... I don't care, just do it right)

It has to be able to read/write MS Office documents

It should come free or discounted on new Macs

If they do this, I will forgive them... You hear me Steve Jobs? You don't want to make me angry!!!

[JLL]

Originally posted by galarneau:
Apple gets off it's ass and also comes out with a totally updated AppleWorks 7 (or whatever they wanna call it).

It has to be rewritten to look and feel like an OS X app (Carbon or Cocoa... I don't care, just do it right)

It has to be able to read/write MS Office documents

It should come free or discounted on new Macs

If they do this, I will forgive them... You hear me Steve Jobs? You don't want to make me angry!!!

According to Think Secret Apple IS working on it, but it won't be released at MWSF.

[mishap]

Originally posted by galarneau:


If they do this, I will forgive them... You hear me Steve Jobs? You don't want to make me angry!!!

Oh..

We know you're just playin' and that you really love Apple

[tikki]

Originally posted by galarneau:
Apple gets off it's ass and also comes out with a totally updated AppleWorks 7 (or whatever they wanna call it).

What does Appleworks have to do with iApps?

[Subzero Diesel949]

Because Apple has neglected its AppleWorks suite for long enough.

[OwlBoy]

Originally posted by Subzero Diesel949:
Because Apple has neglected its AppleWorks suite for long enough.

Yeah I don't know an Apple app that has more sudo-aqua crap in it, and I know thats not the main problem...

-Owl

[willed]

Official: ApplwWorks 6 is crap

[Amorya]

Originally posted by willed:
Official: ApplwWorks 6 is crap

I actually like it - it's still good, and hasn't got any worse over its life. I started with ClarisWorks 2 and have used every release since except 5 - after version 4 there hasn't been that much new in it, but the power of the suite still exists. Office is more powerful, and does do more, there's no denying it - but I know which I'd rather use.

Amorya

[Anomalous]

Originally posted by Amorya:
I actually like it - it's still good, and hasn't got any worse over its life. I started with ClarisWorks 2 and have used every release since except 5 - after version 4 there hasn't been that much new in it, but the power of the suite still exists. Office is more powerful, and does do more, there's no denying it - but I know which I'd rather use.

Amorya

I like it too. It is my main word processor and has been for years.

[Simon]

Originally posted by Amorya:
I actually like it - it's still good, and hasn't got any worse over its life. I started with ClarisWorks 2 and have used every release since except 5 - after version 4 there hasn't been that much new in it, but the power of the suite still exists. Office is more powerful, and does do more, there's no denying it - but I know which I'd rather use.

I agree 100%. I like AppleWorks and I use it for a lot. Of course I don't write papers with tons of formulas with it, but I wouldn't do that with Word either (that's where LaTeX and TeXShop come in). However, AW is free with a new Mac while Office costs and arm and a leg and worst of all, I would be shoving this ton of cash right over to our beloved Mr. Gates himself. I couldn't.

But... Fact is Apple hasn't given AW any significant update in over a year. It lacks some functionality (for example read/write Office X and XP documents). And its GUI is simply strange - sometimes it's a question of (bad) taste (common Apple, Aqua can be much more beautiful), sometimes it's consistency (why does some stuff look like 9 when other stuff looks like Aqua?) and sometimes it's just plain wrong (too large icons and no option for smaller icons, missing entries in CM, etc.).

Fact is also that AW could be a great application. It could have 75% of the functionality Office has and still cover 99% of the stuff people ever do with Office. At the same time it would be

- more clearly and logically structured
- more beautiful and not so cluttered
- free with a new Mac and inexpensive for those who buy or upgrade it

A great advertisement for Apple. Ask Win users why they have Office ("because I need it"), ask them if they like it ("well it does the job, but it's complicated and buggy") and finally ask them if they like the price ("it's expensive like hell ya know"). We Mac users wouldn't have to deal with that if AW got updated properly.

Please, Apple make the good old AppleWorks a great new iWorks! Pretty please with sugar on top.

[Moose]

Originally posted by willed:
Official: ApplwWorks 6 is crap

CONFIRMED!

[dwishbone]

ill forgive it if they make iDVD support external drives. i love iMovie and iPhoto but iDVD is pure crap to me unless it does. also need to add true chapter support.
up til now apple's defense on that was that they had to pay license fees. BIG SHOCK! so does everyone else. i just bought Nero's DVD/MPEG-2 burning plugin for the PC...only $24. NeroVision Express (free to registered Nero users) is almost as good as iDVD and doenst have the stupid external lock outs, limited burning times, and actually supports many more DVD features than iDVD. wake up and smell to coffee apple.

[ZackS]

The Facts on the Future of the iApps

Fact: Apple will begin charging for iApps. $20 each, $50 for a bundle of all 5 with planned "Pro" versions. QuickTime : QuickTime Pro :: iMovie 3 : iMovie 3 Pro In short, non-pro will suck.

Fact: iDVD 3 Pro will have no lockouts or burning limits, iDVD 3 will. Pro will also sport a powerful theme creation tool.

Fact: iTunes 3 Pro will have Rendevous playlists and improved burning features ala Toast with Jam

Fact: iPhoto 2 Pro will still kinda suck. It will come with performance improvements and a free book printing.

Fact: iMovie 3 Pro will rock. iMovie 3 much less so. No specifics as of yet.

Fact: iChat Pro will have MPEG 4 voice and video support over Rendevous

Fact: iSync and iCal will have no "pro" version. Whether it is because they are too new or because they will remain free is unknown.

Fact: Someone will mock the format and content of this post. Just remember, I was the whispering voice who said Apple would back down from their X only plan. I knew in September. Think Secret couldn't verify my info so my story was never published.

I'm not sure how I feel about charging for iApps. I guess I'll have to see how good and easy to pirate they are

[codywalton]

Originally posted by ZackS:
I'm not sure how I feel about charging for iApps. I guess I'll have to see how good and easy to pirate they are

Hmm... if the iApps will be anything like QT Vs. QT Pro, a little birdy told me it would be fairly easy.

I'm not sure if i agree with this charging plan, but I'll keep my opinion open until I have tried the new versions.

[clarkgoble]

Labeling them with a "pro" version seems a bit confusing. It will mean that Apple will, for many applications, have a three tier system.

iDVD (lite)
iDVD Pro
DVDStudio

iMovie (lite)
iMovie Pro
Final Cut Pro

It seems like this will confuse the market somewhat. It will also mean that Apple will be directly competing with Adobe. iMovie Pro would compete with Premiere which is the midrange DV product. iPhoto Pro would presumably compete with Photoshop Elements.

At this stage, I'm not sure that is wise for Apple.

I should add that I find iPhoto useless. My parents like it on their Mac. But basically they just use it as a simple library for photos from their camera. I don't think they really need anything more advanced.

iTunes right now is near perfect. What I want are minor additions.

iMovie I admit I'm mixed about. But I can't see the features I want really being added to a simple consumer level program. I'm halfway thinking of looking at Premiere as I can't afford Final Cut Pro.


As with everyone else, I think the fact that Apple still doesn't have an OSX savvy Appleworks is abominable. They must have Dilbert styled politics going on in that development team.

[Putta]

I think that with microsoft going crazy over OSX sales, Apple won't be rushing to produce an Appleworks suite that reads/writes office documents.

Like it or not, Apple does have to keep Microsoft somewhat on board.

[someone_else]

Originally posted by ZackS:
The Facts on the Future of the iApps

Fact: Apple will begin charging for iApps. $20 each, $50 for a bundle of all 5 with planned "Pro" versions. QuickTime : QuickTime Pro :: iMovie 3 : iMovie 3 Pro In short, non-pro will suck.


Fact: iTunes 3 Pro will have Rendevous playlists and improved burning features ala Toast with Jam

Hmmm. Well, if QT Pro is included in the price, then $50 is not so bad. QT Pro is $30 bucks right now, so another $20 for all of the iPro apps isn't too bad.

As for iTunes, I heard that the next version will be v4. The new iPod 2 (30Gb, 2" color screen, photos, video? - $550) will apparently require it.

[Simon]

Originally posted by Putta:
I think that with microsoft going crazy over OSX sales, Apple won't be rushing to produce an Appleworks suite that reads/writes office documents.
Like it or not, Apple does have to keep Microsoft somewhat on board.

No, actually they don't.

If AW7 would be able to read/write Office documents 100% (not just "almost" like StarOffice 5 on Linux but really 100%) there is no need for Office. Of course MS would start that evil game again with changing the file structure of Office documents with every new Office version and that would cost Apple more R&D but maybe that's just the price Apple has to pay for independance.

[Thinine]

I really don't think pro versions of iApps will fly well, especially a pro iChat. Who the hell would spend money on a chat app, even if it supported video chat. But I guess we'll see tomorrow. Less than 8.5 hours left.

[clebin]

Originally posted by Simon:
If AW7 would be able to read/write Office documents 100% (not just "almost" like StarOffice 5 on Linux but really 100%) there is no need for Office.

Having AppleWorks read Office documents 100% means implementing 100% of what Office does. That would be impossible given the size of Office and the current state of AppleWorks. I reckon that contributing to OpenOffice and making it friendly and Mac-like is Apple's best hope. That also means it stays free and builds momentum for OpenOffice on Windows and Linux.

Chris

[Simon]

Originally posted by clebin:
Having AppleWorks read Office documents 100% means implementing 100% of what Office does. That would be impossible given the size of Office and the current state of AppleWorks. I reckon that contributing to OpenOffice and making it friendly and Mac-like is Apple's best hope. That also means it stays free and builds momentum for OpenOffice on Windows and Linux.

It's funny that you mention OpenOffice. I'm running it right now on my Linux box at work. This is exactly what I had in mind when I was writing about AW7 and not needing Office anymore. Apple could give AW7 the core of OpenOffice and make it look and feel like Aqua. Awesome.

[Millennium]

Originally posted by clebin:
Having AppleWorks read Office documents 100% means implementing 100% of what Office does.

Not really. It means having to implement viewing for 100% of what Office does, but not necessarily editing of all that stuff. Some things could be imported as non-editable graphics and that would likely be enough for most people.

Also, it's generally much easier to implement viewing support than editing support. This would still be no trivial task, of course, but it's within the realm of possibility.

[clebin]

Originally posted by Millennium:
Not really. It means having to implement viewing for 100% of what Office does, but not necessarily editing of all that stuff.

I take your point and you're right. I still think that it's too much work for too little gain. AppleWorks sort of does viewing now, but viewing it exactly as it would appear in Office would be tough. Most people will want to edit too - we have lots of internal templates which everbody uses, and everybody gets fun Office docs in their email with macros the like.

I'm glad to hear you get to use OpenOffice and Linux at work, Simon. I have it on Mandrake and I've been impressed in the short time I've used it. You mentioned StarOffice 5... do you find OpenOffice much better than StarOffice 5? I know StarOffice 6 is out now, which is probably closer to the current state of OpenOffice.

You probably know this, but a native Aqua OpenOffice is on the way, and Sun and Apple have been sending out mixed signals about Apple's involvement..

Chris

[Simon]

Originally posted by clebin:
You mentioned StarOffice 5... do you find OpenOffice much better than StarOffice 5?

At a first glance, yes. It seems to display stuff much more like Office would. SO5 sometimes displayed strange things. But generally, I don't like that they stick with the MS look&feel which I think is horrible. I can't find or use things any better than with MS Office, i.e. I'm zero productive. Thank God I mostly use LaTeX.

You probably know this, but a native Aqua OpenOffice is on the way, and Sun and Apple have been sending out mixed signals about Apple's involvement.

I heard and I think that would be great. I think giving it a native Aqua GUI is necessary to be a real Mac alternative. I don't see my good old mother installing XFree86 and XDarwin just to get Office compatibility.

[JLL]

Originally posted by Simon:
I don't see my good old mother installing XFree86 and XDarwin just to get Office compatibility.

It doesn't have to be difficult:

http://ezine.daemonnews.org/200301/editorial.html

[Simon]

Originally posted by JLL:
It doesn't have to be difficult:

Not at all, but you don't know my mother. For her, the iMac I gave her is like her typewriter, but (I'll quote) "the damn iMac thing lacks that good-ole typing sound so I don't know when it finally types the words on the paper in that screen..." Talk about technically challenged. She's a great woman, but computers and her don't mix well at all.

[Lew]

Originally posted by Simon:
?the damn iMac thing lacks that good-ole typing sound?

If you go to the Keyboard tab of the Universal Access prefpane and set it up like so...


...she'll get the typing sound

[Simon]

Originally posted by GFive:
If you go to the Keyboard tab of the Universal Access prefpane and set it up like so...


...she'll get the typing sound

OMG

I can't imagine somebody actually mentioned this.

Thanks for the info. I knew about this feature and after my mother said the stuff about the typewriter sound I set exactly the settings you mentioned.

Nevertheless, thanks for helping out.

Sometimes I can't believe the relationship my mother has with the iMac. It's like this:


mother: why can't i just have my old typewriter back?

me: well, because your typewriter doesn't do email and besides, it's broken and at some city dump

mother: can't they write emails with typewriters?

me: well, that's what we call letters, mom.

mother: yeah, you're right. but i prefer email. it's so much more direct. too bad it doesn't work on the typewriter. maybe some day a guy will figure that out.

me: no mom, no sane computer guy is ever ever going to port email to the typewriter. you see it's not the typing, it's that email needs to go to a server and you can't get the old typewriter to talk to that server -

mother (interrupting): well, why do we need that server anyway?

You see, there's no hope for my mother and the iMac. They like each other somehow, but they will never fit together.

[Simon]

Oh and BTW, sorry for getting OT here. Didn't want to hijack the thread.