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Spliff · Jan 9, 2003, 02:24 AM

The one-row limit of the Bookmarks Bar. Keep adding bookmarks and/or folders to the Bookmarks Bar. Watch what happens when fill up the Bookmarks Bar. Instead of wrapping to the next line the way Chimera does, it puts the bookmarks offscreen where they can only be accessed via clicking on a double-arrow icon. This is how IE 5 does it, and it's a bad design. You should be able to add as many bookmarks and folders of bookmarks to the Bookmarks Bar as you like, whether it's a single row or five rows.

Apple touts the superiority of their bookmarking system, but they screwed up with the Bookmarks Bar. Fortunately, it's easily fixed.

I can't believe that no one is complaining about this. Please send them feedback about this so they'll fix it for the 1.0 release.

oVeRmInD911 · Jan 9, 2003, 02:28 AM

Originally posted by Spliff:
The one-row limit of the Bookmarks Bar. Keep adding bookmarks and/or folders to the Bookmarks Bar. Watch what happens when fill up the Bookmarks Bar. Instead of wrapping to the next line the way Chimera does, it puts the bookmarks offscreen where they can only be accessed via clicking on a double-arrow icon. This is how IE 5 does it, and it's a bad design. You should be able to add as many bookmarks and folders of bookmarks to the Bookmarks Bar as you like, whether it's a single row or five rows.

Apple touts the superiority of their bookmarking system, but they screwed up with the Bookmarks Bar. Fortunately, it's easily fixed.

I can't believe that no one is complaining about this. Please send them feedback about this so they'll fix it for the 1.0 release.

I think Guy Incognito already complained about this. He's usually the quickest to find quirks like that.

Anyways, I agree that it should handle the bookmark bar the way OmniWeb does.

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Jan 9, 2003, 02:29 AM

Yes people have mentioned it. It is a beta, they will fix it. For now, make folders.

MickS · Jan 9, 2003, 03:06 AM

One man's flaw is another man's feature.

I prefer the way Safari handles it. It makes me be a little more organised with my bookmarks (I need the help

).

Producer · Jan 9, 2003, 03:31 AM

speaking of which I don't know if I like the progress bar in the address bar... maybe if it wasn't bright blue (or does it just use you system wide highlight color?) anyway i think I would prefer just spinning icon like in other OS X apps...i think the big progress bar makes it seem like pages are taking longer to load then they

juanvaldes · Jan 9, 2003, 03:55 AM

Originally posted by Producer:
speaking of which I don't know if I like the progress bar in the address bar... maybe if it wasn't bright blue (or does it just use you system wide highlight color?) anyway i think I would prefer just spinning icon like in other OS X apps...i think the big progress bar makes it seem like pages are taking longer to load then they

Actually that is one of the VERY FEW things in it that I DO like! Great way to save space, and you only need to look at once place, it's only there after you click link/type in url so most of the time its' like it does not exist. Where as right now for me with chimera I have a little bar at the bottom of the screen telling me "Document Done", well of course its' done I can see that.

PS I agree with the orginal poster.

Axo1ot1 · Jan 9, 2003, 04:00 AM

I hope that the final release will have a preference to have it either way. I have liked the ease with which I can make folders for different categories of links I often use.

Originally posted by juanvaldes:
Actually that is one of the VERY FEW things in it that I DO like!

What do you not like?

clarkgoble · Jan 9, 2003, 04:12 AM

I have to second the motion to keep the bookmark bar the way it is now. I don't like bars suddenly getting bigger like that. Reminds me of how menus in windows used to work back in Windows 3.1. (Oh I hated that)

BTW - the one thing that bugs me about the bookmarks is not being able to delete them if they are in the left column rather than the right column. Of course I've mentioned that enough now that I know people want me to shut up about it. <Grin>

Other than the hassle of getting Chimera bookmarks in, I was very impressed with it all. I've not played around with scripting yet. But it is all quite nice. Now if they can improve Flash performance and have better CSS compatibility I'll very very happy.

TC · Jan 9, 2003, 04:27 AM

Also, try out the keyboard shortcuts to access your bookmark bar, CMD + 1-9.

Diificult at first for the higher numbers with no visual aid as to their numbers but you quickly remember the sites you use the most.

juanvaldes · 05:28 AM

Originally posted by Axo1ot1:
What do you not like?

for me speed is on par with Chimera. So we can get out of the way.

I know it's beta but it is close to being finished and if it was not for macworld they would have kept it secret until 1.0, but anyway...

no tabs
non customizable toolbar (have a feeling this should be done by 1.0)
don't really like the new way for using bookmarks but more options never hurt.
Prefer OW & Chimera way to handle quick links, don't like how they fall off (topic of this thread)
scrolling is very slow (note maybe smoother but takes more finger action)
Those are really the main points of Safari vs Chimera IMO. This says nothing of all the nice features of OW I wish Chimera had

(tabs and standards compliance brought me from OW to Chimera, speed boost is nice too

)

I am very hopeful for OW 5 since it appears they will use the same engine

But really, I feel this browser has no real nitch, it seems very much like chimera (fast and lightweight) and will piss of M$ royaly for little gain.

juanvaldes · Jan 9, 2003, 05:24 AM

Originally posted by TC:
Also, try out the keyboard shortcuts to access your bookmark bar, CMD + 1-9.

Diificult at first for the higher numbers with no visual aid as to their numbers but you quickly remember the sites you use the most.

interesting. Too bad it skips over the group, though that would be hard UI & coding wise...

Simon Mundy · Jan 9, 2003, 06:24 AM

Originally posted by Spliff:
The one-row limit of the Bookmarks Bar. Keep adding bookmarks and/or folders to the Bookmarks Bar. Watch what happens when fill up the Bookmarks Bar. Instead of wrapping to the next line the way Chimera does, it puts the bookmarks offscreen where they can only be accessed via clicking on a double-arrow icon. This is how IE 5 does it, and it's a bad design. You should be able to add as many bookmarks and folders of bookmarks to the Bookmarks Bar as you like, whether it's a single row or five rows.

So I should be able to put 60 bookmarks in my bookmarks bar and expect to have a usable browser window?

This is no different than the behaviour of the finder windows - if you have a wider screen, you have more room for bookmarks/icons/whatever.

It's consistent, it's small and neat and elegantly handles 'overflow'.

But you're right - Chimera DOES do things differently. Use it instead if it does things the way you like it.

Maflynn · Jan 9, 2003, 06:49 AM

Originally posted by Producer:
speaking of which I don't know if I like the progress bar in the address bar

Actually I think its kind of cool.

Mike

MacGorilla · Jan 9, 2003, 08:34 AM

Originally posted by Maflynn:
Actually I think its kind of cool.

Mike

I have mixed feelings about it but what I do miss is being able to mouse over a link (like ob versiontracker) and see where it leads to.

awaspaas · Jan 9, 2003, 08:41 AM

Originally posted by MacGorilla:
I have mixed feelings about it but what I do miss is being able to mouse over a link (like ob versiontracker) and see where it leads to.

The status bar shows you the URL of links when you mouseover them... are you talking about something else??

SMacTech · Jan 9, 2003, 08:45 AM

Originally posted by MacGorilla:
I have mixed feelings about it but what I do miss is being able to mouse over a link (like ob versiontracker) and see where it leads to.

Select View>Status Bar menu and it will show you the link address at the bottom of the window.

-Q- · Jan 9, 2003, 08:46 AM

Originally posted by MacGorilla:
I have mixed feelings about it but what I do miss is being able to mouse over a link (like ob versiontracker) and see where it leads to.

Just hit command+\ and it'll show the status bar at the bottom. That will show you the links you're hovering over...

MickS · Jan 9, 2003, 08:46 AM

Originally posted by awaspaas:
The status bar shows you the URL of links when you mouseover them... are you talking about something else??

You have to know that the status bar is there and can be switched on

dcantrel · Jan 9, 2003, 08:48 AM

You can always enable the status bar at the bottom and get the links to show and the status of the page. Goto view and check status bar.

Dave

swiz · Jan 9, 2003, 08:50 AM

I dont know of any brushed apps that have a customizable toolbar yet do you?

Silky Voice of The Gorn · Jan 9, 2003, 09:08 AM

I like Safari's implementation of bookmark bar; it's consistent with the OS.

I don't like wrapping bookmarks ala Chimera. Seems to me anything that changes the size of a static display area = A Bad Thing, UI-wise.

Anyway, the bookmark bar is meant as a quick link to your most used sites...any bookmarks that cause the display to wrap are defeating the purpose of a quick link bar in the first place; they should be moved to the standard bookmark folder/menu whatever.

Millennium · Jan 9, 2003, 12:13 PM

I can't say I like the progress bar in the address bar.

Two major reasons for this. One, it's not an accurate representation of how you're doing; it seems to only update when a file is completed. It also gives absolutely no feedback while something is in the process of downloading. A simple spinner would show this (in fact, this is just the sort of thing that the spinner control was designed for) without compromising the minimalism of the Safari interface.

Two, there are some bugs with the progress bar and favicons, such that the favicons often seem to be left with a bluish tint.

As for the bookmark bar, to be quite honest if you need two rows then either you're abusing it or you really need a life. This is meant for just the most frequently-used links. If you really need many things in the address bar, start organizing them into folders (which will show up in the bookmark bar as small menus).

Hi I'm Ben · Jan 9, 2003, 12:15 PM

folders rock.

OAW · Jan 9, 2003, 12:23 PM

I for one would not want the Bookmarks Bar to "wrap around". That would be most ugly and result in way too much metal being displayed. The reason the brushed metal GUI works is because it is so minimal. Besides, the Bookmarks Bar is designed to access your most frequently used bookmarks ... not every single bookmark you have. If you have a ton of bookmarks you want in the Bookmarks Bar, there is no reason why you can't organize them into folders and fit them on one line. Personally, I have 7 folders of bookmarks (some of which are nested) and one bookmark (Apple) in my Bookmarks bar. Anything beyond those and I'm opening up the the Bookmarks Window.

Simple. Clean. Elegant.

OAW

zazou · Jan 9, 2003, 12:31 PM

Originally posted by juanvaldes:
scrolling is very slow (note maybe smoother but takes more finger action)

Safari uses an curved acceleration model...

as in.. hold it down and it speeds up to a fairly decent clip.

If you want to burn down the page just press the scroll arrow an hold down the option key.

(scroll arrow + option = ZOOM)

[APi]TheMan · Jan 9, 2003, 12:43 PM

Originally posted by juanvaldes:
Actually that is one of the VERY FEW things in it that I DO like! Great way to save space, and you only need to look at once place, it's only there after you click link/type in url so most of the time its' like it does not exist. Where as right now for me with chimera I have a little bar at the bottom of the screen telling me "Document Done", well of course its' done I can see that.

I fully like the progress bar kinda hiding in/behind the location bar field.

cmoney · Jan 9, 2003, 01:20 PM

Originally posted by dcantrel:
You can always enable the status bar at the bottom and get the links to show and the status of the page. Goto view and check status bar.

Dave

When you hold command and hover over a link, it changes to "Open 'link' in a new Window" and holding option changes the status bar to "Download 'link'."

KidRed · Jan 9, 2003, 02:08 PM

Originally posted by Spliff:
The one-row limit of the Bookmarks Bar. Keep adding bookmarks and/or folders to the Bookmarks Bar. Watch what happens when fill up the Bookmarks Bar. Instead of wrapping to the next line the way Chimera does, it puts the bookmarks offscreen where they can only be accessed via clicking on a double-arrow icon. This is how IE 5 does it, and it's a bad design. You should be able to add as many bookmarks and folders of bookmarks to the Bookmarks Bar as you like, whether it's a single row or five rows.

Apple touts the superiority of their bookmarking system, but they screwed up with the Bookmarks Bar. Fortunately, it's easily fixed.

I can't believe that no one is complaining about this. Please send them feedback about this so they'll fix it for the 1.0 release.

Design flaw? Really, have you tried doing the same in the finder's toolbar? So, then I guess according to you it's at a least a consistent flaw or the only way Apple handles shortcuts on the toolbar. Not a big deal, and Apple won't change this like some of you think because Steve said himself Safari's thin top toolbar interface is small to allow the page to be the star. So then made all the elements small on purpose and i doubt they'll allow secondary lines of bookmarks to extend the height of the toolbar.

phillryu · Jan 9, 2003, 05:49 PM

About customizable toolbars in brushed apps, check out iStorm

(Version 2.0 coming very soon).

Coxy · Jan 10, 2003, 06:40 AM

I would like a spinner in the button bar, and a progress indicator in the status bar.

My system-wide highlight colour is blue, and that progress indicator drives me crazy: I'm so used to IE that I think I have to click within the window to be able to scroll.

And I'd like the bookmark bar to be left the way it is.

jasong · Jan 10, 2003, 06:54 AM

And honestly, the biggest design flaw is the contextual menus. Or more accurately, the lack thereof. But much like KidRed pointed out, it is a consistent design flaw.

I would also like to see something akin to iTunes "browser" mode, where I can see my list of bookmarks, and my content (yes, this would work suspiciously like IE).

-- Jason

malique · Jan 10, 2003, 07:21 AM

Originally posted by clarkgoble:
I have to second the motion to keep the bookmark bar the way it is now. I don't like bars suddenly getting bigger like that. Reminds me of how menus in windows used to work back in Windows 3.1.

my words. Tabbed browsing is MISSING.

Do u really find this guy FASTER brothers? I see no difference but I can't upgrade to 10.2.3 (disk too full)

DBursey · Jan 10, 2003, 08:34 AM

I'd like to see a pull down menu for bookmarks, a-la explorer. Otherwise the bookmarks bar is fine as it is.

I'd like to see command+B toggle on and off each of the menu bars. Presently it toggles only the bookmark bar, with status and address bars needing to be switched on and off from the view menu (I think that's accurate; I'm describing this from memory, writing as I am from my windoze box at work).

I'd like to see auto forms complete in the post-beta version.

I'd like to be able to turn off hyperlink underlining. Did I miss that somewhere in the interface?

Otherwise I love this browser. It's fast, and shows great promise. I've been reluctant to switch from OS9, and Safari gives me a new incentive to boot into X.

xMetal · Jan 10, 2003, 08:47 AM

I for one would love to see Tabs make it into Safari. That is a really useful feature.

Also, I can't help but notice the deplorable lack of options when right clicking on a page. Uh, guys, how about "Back"?

I do like Safari a lot though, and am looking forward to it's final release.

MickS · Jan 10, 2003, 09:34 AM

Originally posted by jasong:
And honestly, the biggest design flaw is the contextual menus. Or more accurately, the lack thereof. But much like KidRed pointed out, it is a consistent design flaw.

Lack of contextual menus isn't a design flaw, it's something that hasn't been completed yet. If there were no contextual menus and no way for them to be added, that would be a design flaw.

chabig · Jan 10, 2003, 10:14 AM

I'd like to see a pull down menu for bookmarks, a-la explorer.

You can have bookmarks in the pull-down menu if you want them there. It's fully customizable.

When you are editing bookmarks, check out the top of the left column. There are entries for Bookmarks Bar and Bookmarks Menu. Just put your bookmarks wherever you see fit.

One other neat thing is that you can also option-drag bookmarks to duplicate them.

Chris

diamondsw · Jan 10, 2003, 10:20 AM

Originally posted by swiz:
I dont know of any brushed apps that have a customizable toolbar yet do you?

Well, Sherlock was going to be in the Jaguar beta, and if you use Metallifizer any app can be. Brushed metal does not preclude toolbar customization.

Not using NSToolbar does, however.

jasong · Jan 10, 2003, 12:50 PM

I understood what Steve said on stage to mean that Safari is final, they are just haven't been able to test it on every web site. So the beta is to find things that break, like Hebrew support, not Context Menus. I will be very surprised (but very happy) if decent contextual menus make it into 1.0 final. Likewise I would be surprised to see things like Keychain support and tabs in 1.0 final.

Safari is a good start though, and I think that ultimately it is WebCore that is important here, not Safari.

-- Jason