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Greenland is for toy dogs · Jan 15, 2003, 05:10 AM

Just suggesting this as a valid alternative to running Connectix Virtual PC: connecting a PC directly to your mac and just using Microsoft Remote Desktop Connection to work directly on the PC.

Using RDC, the PC desktop is displayed in a window, similar to Virtual PC. I haven't actually used it yet, but intend to try it out given the poor performance of Virtual PC.

Any other users out there who have tried this as an alternative? Just wondering, seeing as Microsoft RDC is freely downloadable.

For more information, have a look at this article on MacDevcenter:

http://www.macdevcenter.com/lpt/a/2940

Download RDC from here:

http://www.microsoft.com/mac/DOWNLOAD/MISC/RDC.asp

Just wondering has anyone tried it.

Moose · Jan 15, 2003, 07:02 AM

Originally posted by Greenland is for toy dogs:
Just suggesting this as a valid alternative to running Connectix Virtual PC: connecting a PC directly to your mac and just using Microsoft Remote Desktop Connection to work directly on the PC.

Using RDC, the PC desktop is displayed in a window, similar to Virtual PC. I haven't actually used it yet, but intend to try it out given the poor performance of Virtual PC.

Any other users out there who have tried this as an alternative? Just wondering, seeing as Microsoft RDC is freely downloadable.

For more information, have a look at this article on MacDevcenter:

http://www.macdevcenter.com/lpt/a/2940

Download RDC from here:

http://www.microsoft.com/mac/DOWNLOAD/MISC/RDC.asp

Just wondering has anyone tried it.

Uh.

If it's right next to you, why wouldn't you just use it? RDC's strength is remote access to a Windows PC. I tried using it to access my XP box in lieu of actually using my XP box. It lasted all of half an hour. It just made no sense to me to continue with it when I had the box right next to me.

Combined with Cisco's VPN client, though, it enables me to do remote admin on my servers at work without getting out of bed. Which is nice. Oh, so very nice.

sniffer · Jan 15, 2003, 07:31 AM

Originally posted by Moose:
Uh.

If it's right next to you, why wouldn't you just use it? RDC's strength is remote access to a Windows PC. I tried using it to access my XP box in lieu of actually using my XP box. It lasted all of half an hour. It just made no sense to me to continue with it when I had the box right next to me.

Combined with Cisco's VPN client, though, it enables me to do remote admin on my servers at work without getting out of bed. Which is nice. Oh, so very nice.

There is also vnc alternatives. I belive they are able to be connected cross platform. It seems like an open standard, but I don't know much about it. I haven't used it my self, since I have the apps I need on my mac. My coworkers use it a lot at work over 100mb lan win->win.

SMacTech · Jan 15, 2003, 08:30 AM

Remote Desktop works better than VNC. VNC from ATT sucks cpu% really bad. If you want a good VNC client, get VNCDimension.
Remote Desktop has much better screen updating than VNC and is faster.

Hozie · Jan 15, 2003, 08:47 AM

Yeah, about that RDC, is it fast? I mean, *hypothetically speaking*

, could I just run a headless XP box next to my PowerBook, fire up Counter-Strike on the XP machine and play via RDC on the PB? Don't have much hope for this one, but boy would it be cool!

Oh, and then just imagine the following: connect the two computers via FireWire, run the developer preview of IP over FireWire and really make the above work! Any thoughts on this?

SMacTech · Jan 15, 2003, 08:51 AM

I have never played games with Remote Desktop. Certainly VNC won't work and there will be some lag in video with RD. I use it for administration of XP desktops from my cube.

Moose · Jan 15, 2003, 09:54 AM

Originally posted by Hozie:
Yeah, about that RDC, is it fast? I mean, *hypothetically speaking* , could I just run a headless XP box next to my PowerBook, fire up Counter-Strike on the XP machine and play via RDC on the PB? Don't have much hope for this one, but boy would it be cool!

Oh, and then just imagine the following: connect the two computers via FireWire, run the developer preview of IP over FireWire and really make the above work! Any thoughts on this?

It's not anywhere near that fast. While you might (might being the operative word--I haven't run numbers yet, don't really see the need to) have enough bandwidth to do so, once again, all of your screen drawing will be taken care of by the CPU. This is, as we all have discovered with Quartz, what I like to call "slow."

The only thing that comes to mind that might be able to accomplish what you're describing is X. A handful of X servers (including Apple's, I believe) support hardware rendering. And because X is intrinsically network based anyway, it shouldn't matter if you're local or remote so long as you have sufficient bandwidth and the same libraries on both the client and the server. I'm not really sure. Sounds like an interesting research project. For somebody else.

yzeater · Jan 15, 2003, 10:15 AM

I downloaded RDC last night, and it wasn't really obivious how it worked. I'm going to try it tonight. The ONLY reason I use my XP box (3 floors away) is for Kaaza and printing. Come to think of it, how can I get my OSX Powerbook to recognize the printer on my XP box?

Millennium · Jan 15, 2003, 10:16 AM

Originally posted by Hozie:
Yeah, about that RDC, is it fast? I mean, *hypothetically speaking* , could I just run a headless XP box next to my PowerBook, fire up Counter-Strike on the XP machine and play via RDC on the PB? Don't have much hope for this one, but boy would it be cool!

Oh, and then just imagine the following: connect the two computers via FireWire, run the developer preview of IP over FireWire and really make the above work! Any thoughts on this?

If you're going to run a Mac and a PC next to each other, don't bother with RDC or anything; just use a KVM switch. That'll be faster.

MickS · Jan 15, 2003, 10:17 AM

If you have a PC or can afford the space to have a PC as well as a Mac then this is okay. It's not really an alternative to VPC though.

hwshi · Jan 15, 2003, 11:49 AM

does rdc work the other way too? my mom is having problems with something on her mac and i'm having a hard time getting it resolved without seeing her screen.so if she were to insatll remote desktop on her mac would i be able to connect to her mac and control it?

snerdini · Jan 15, 2003, 12:52 PM

Does anyone else see the irony in this post? Suggesting that a real PC is a good subsititute for a Virtual PC? What if you have a laptop and no internet connection?

Anyway, has anyone tried getting WINE to work on OS X? I can't remember if it's a Linux-only program, but it was certainly interesting using it on my Linux box at home...

RMXO · Jan 15, 2003, 01:04 PM

RDC rocks. i havent tried using it to play games but i use it all the time to connect to my XP box & my XP box is only a few ft away from me.

Earth Mk. II · Jan 15, 2003, 01:05 PM

Originally posted by snerdini:
Anyway, has anyone tried getting WINE to work on OS X? I can't remember if it's a Linux-only program, but it was certainly interesting using it on my Linux box at home...

As i understand the WINE project - it never will, or at least, it's very unlikely.

basically, WINE isn't emulation, it's just implementing the windows API. It's more analgous to Classic than it is to VPC, as there is no hardware emulation. in other words, you'll still need an x86 chip to run any windows programs with WINE.

From WINE's Homepage:
Wine is an implementation of the Windows Win32 and Win16 APIs on top of X and Unix. Think of Wine as a Windows compatibility layer. Wine provides both a development toolkit (Winelib) for porting Windows sources to Unix and a program loader, allowing many unmodified Windows 3.x/95/98/ME/NT/W2K/XP binaries to run under Intel Unixes.

Hash · Jan 15, 2003, 01:13 PM

RDC is a great application. Even having Windows XP and some kind of switch, using RDC can be very handy since you dont have to switch and you can see BOTH desktops simultaneously on ONE display.

I dont think that you can play games with it, since it, as was mentioned above, windows desktop is redrawn by Mac, but for simple operations its OK. I tried even inputting some text in Windows Word XP from Mac, using RDC, and felt almost no lag. Very good piece of software. It doesnt work other way, from Win to Mac, you have to use other apps.

The only small inconvenience is that you cant shut off PC remotely, only close the connection - even if you click on start on taskbar and try to select turn off, its not there. XP substitutes it for "close connection" tab.

mishakim · Jan 15, 2003, 01:19 PM

Originally posted by snerdini:
...Anyway, has anyone tried getting WINE to work on OS X? I can't remember if it's a Linux-only program, but it was certainly interesting using it on my Linux box at home...

WINE only runs on x86 hardware - it's more like Classic than VPC; that is, it passes instructions on to the real processor, so it wouldn't work on a PPC.

Bochs, on the other hand, is an emulator like VPC, and last I saw worked on OS X, but poorly. http://bochs.sourceforge.net/
I really have no experience with it.

For myself, I use RDC occasionally to access my PC, and speed is great within my home LAN, tolerable from school

bluedog · 02:48 PM

If the two machines are next to one another the KVM (Keyboard, Video, Mouse) switch will give you the BEST possible performance from both computers. They are more costly than software solutions which are OK for light or moderate usage. With that said... software solutions vary in their effectiveness and usefullness as follows:

Originally posted by hwshi:
does rdc work the other way too? my mom is having problems with something on her mac and i'm having a hard time getting it resolved without seeing her screen.so if she were to insatll remote desktop on her mac would i be able to connect to her mac and control it?

People seem to lump remote desktop and VNC and other 'screen sharing' applications like Timuktu and PCAnywhere, but there are significant differences from these products.

Remote desktop is a SERVICE that XP can broadcast and transmit its control over a network. It has some functionality that's the same, but has more ties into the XP operating system and does NOT work the other way around. The features may be similar to the other offerings on the surface, but it is better integrated and performs better than all the other options I've seen -- when using an XP or Windows2kpro computer.

On the other hand, VNC can run and control the screen and mouse of most mainstream OSes and does a reasonable job of it. The performance is ok for general use, but NOT for graphically intensive work. You can increase your performance by reducing the amount of color transmitted to the remote viewer (at the server or at the client end when connecting). The software is available without charge and is flexible on how many types of machines it can be used.

The other commercial offerings have a few extra bells and whistles when compared to VNC, but in my experience don't have the performance of the new Remote Desktop service from MS. While I don't like saying it, it is the best solution when your only need is to connect to a Windows machine with XP or Win2kPro.

If you want flexibility, or need to connect to several different OSes remotely then VNC has the advantage of being free and having flexibility in its implementation. You can look at the sourcecode if necessary. The service can be enabled and passed through SSH tunneling for secure communication and its a decent enough performance for most needs when doing remote control of a machine.

One interesting note: Timbuktu has an online registration service with their software that helps you find your computer (like a custom DNS) through their servers when you have it configured. The intent is to help you find your machine when you need to connect from a remote source.

A victim of a computer theft was crafty enough to watch when an online user accessed the internet and showed its log as their computer accessing the internet. Having seen the accesses from the logs of when the machine was online, the police were able trace the call and visited the home of the caller.

The person who answered the door claimed they 'bought' it from someone who they don't remember. They ended up 'forfeiting' the computer they 'bought' on the black market. This was listed on a few online sites within the last year or so. Interesting read if you can find it.

Hozie · Jan 15, 2003, 02:31 PM

Ah well.... I knew it was too good to be true.

If they'd just port Half-Life to OS X already, I wouldn't have to be making all these crazy theories up. But then again, that'd be too easy, now wouldn't it?

hwshi · Jan 15, 2003, 05:12 PM

hey bluedog can you possibly help a noob at this?
i got my mom to download share my desktop(she's on os10.2.3)
i got vnc (i'm on xp pro)
so i have her ip,port,password. and hell if i can get it to work?
a vnc dialogue box comes up asking for server adress.i've tried every combination possible.can't figure the damn thing out.have gone to both developers sites,not much help.
i need to get into my moms' print center.

mbryda · Jan 15, 2003, 05:30 PM

Originally posted by Hash:
The only small inconvenience is that you cant shut off PC remotely, only close the connection - even if you click on start on taskbar and try to select turn off, its not there. XP substitutes it for "close connection" tab.

You can - go to Start, hit Windows Security. You then get the same menu as if hitting CTRL-ALT-DEL. Click on the Shutdown button - you then get the standard options (Shutdown, Logoff, Restart).

If you have an ATX motherboard and such the computer will shut off.

hwshi · Jan 15, 2003, 05:57 PM

ok i've even tried it on our ibook using vnc chicken,no go?i can ping her mac no problem.so i'm lost.the only thing i can think of is my router(lynksis,with latest driver).it takes no time at all for any of these programs to say no connection.

snerdini · Jan 15, 2003, 08:40 PM

Originally posted by mishakim:
WINE only runs on x86 hardware - it's more like Classic than VPC; that is, it passes instructions on to the real processor, so it wouldn't work on a PPC.

Bochs, on the other hand, is an emulator like VPC, and last I saw worked on OS X, but poorly. http://bochs.sourceforge.net/
I really have no experience with it.

For myself, I use RDC occasionally to access my PC, and speed is great within my home LAN, tolerable from school

Duh. I'm sure I knew that at one time, but apparently my memory is not as good as it used to be. Or maybe it was never that good...I can't remember...

Hash · Jan 16, 2003, 05:18 AM

Originally posted by mbryda:
You can - go to Start, hit Windows Security. You then get the same menu as if hitting CTRL-ALT-DEL. Click on the Shutdown button - you then get the standard options (Shutdown, Logoff, Restart).

If you have an ATX motherboard and such the computer will shut off.

Oh, thanks! I ll try it. Thats really handy!

bluedog · Jan 16, 2003, 07:45 AM

Originally posted by hwshi:
hey bluedog can you possibly help a noob at this?
i got my mom to download share my desktop(she's on os10.2.3)
i got vnc (i'm on xp pro)
so i have her ip,port,password. and hell if i can get it to work?
a vnc dialogue box comes up asking for server adress.i've tried every combination possible.can't figure the damn thing out.have gone to both developers sites,not much help.
i need to get into my moms' print center.

Really, if you've installed the 'share my desktop' application on your mother's computer and its active you should be able to connect to it with a VNC client.

If you can ping the computer and you are sure its the actual address of her computer then it will work. It may be they are behind a firewall and the you are only seeing the firewall and your connection request doesn't get passed to her computer.

Do you know if she has a DHCP address? or is it a static address?

One option is to try and use a common port that firewalls have open for making the connection. If that's the case you reassign the port on her computer (likely a preference) and then try connecting to that port with your client software.

Good luck.

yzeater · Jan 16, 2003, 02:26 PM

Just a little update, I installed and used RDC for the first time last night. It was exactly the same speed as using the PC directly (except the screen was 800x600 and 8 bit color). So then later I went down to the XP box, and it wouldn't display anything. I had to do a system restore and some other stuff to get it to work.

typoon · Jan 16, 2003, 02:35 PM

There is a company called lismoresoft I think they make something similar to VPC. You could try that.

mishap · Jan 16, 2003, 03:37 PM

Originally posted by yzeater:
Just a little update, I installed and used RDC for the first time last night. It was exactly the same speed as using the PC directly (except the screen was 800x600 and 8 bit color). So then later I went down to the XP box, and it wouldn't display anything. I had to do a system restore and some other stuff to get it to work.

I run RDC at 1024x768 with millions of colors (with windowsXP) and my powerbook

I've never had any problems getting the XP box to display again. If i log into the XP box my RDC will be killed or if i login using RDC my XP box' screen will kick back to login. This is annoying (it would be nice for 2 people to use the same computer at once logged into different accounts). Maybe Win2k can do this? anyone done it?

Anyway, RDC is much better than VirtualPC for obvious reasons. Just being able to see both computers on one screen is great.

glo · Jan 16, 2003, 03:51 PM

RDC works quite well. I use it even though my XP box is right next to me. Other's ask why wouldn't you just use the XP box directly? Basically RDC gives me the ability to cut and paste between the machines. I like my dualie for day to day work, even though my company uses XP. Being able to cut and paste allows me to grab email address, logs, xml docs and other stuff on the fly into OS X.

There is another company that makes a Java Version of RDC called HOBlinkjwt. I use to use that program, but it was kinda buggy.

jimsmac · Jan 16, 2003, 05:27 PM

The subject of this topic got me thinking.

What ever happened to Softwindows? The last Mac I had before my iBook was a 7200 in 96 or 97 and this was the main emulator at the time.

I seem to remember VPC coming out afterwards.

hwshi · Jan 17, 2003, 05:22 PM

hey bluedog thanks for the reply.
If you can ping the computer and you are sure its the actual address of her computer then it will work. It may be they are behind a firewall and the you are only seeing the firewall and your connection request doesn't get passed to her computer.
it is her i.p. and no she is not behind a firewall.i had no packet loss when i pinged her.

Do you know if she has a DHCP address? or is it a static address?
she has a dhcp address.
both xp and 10.2.3 fAIL to connect,and the box for the failed connection comes up right away,seems like it's not pasing through my router.is there something i need to enable/disable? i have a linksys befr41 if that helps.
thanks for any help!
p.s.her problem is that print center is saying her driver for her printer is not installed? epson 777.was working before xmas when i was there.epsons' site doesn't have the driver for download since it's part of jag install cd.which is sitting beside me(500 miles away).

mishakim · Jan 17, 2003, 08:23 PM

Originally posted by mbryda:
You can - go to Start, hit Windows Security. You then get the same menu as if hitting CTRL-ALT-DEL. Click on the Shutdown button - you then get the standard options (Shutdown, Logoff, Restart).

Thanks - I'd been wondering about that. When I do it though, Hibernate is greyed out, I can only shutdown. Do you know a way to change that, or is hibernate disabled when there's a remote session open, or something?

awaspaas · Jan 18, 2003, 01:02 AM

Originally posted by hwshi:
hey bluedog thanks for the reply.
If you can ping the computer and you are sure its the actual address of her computer then it will work. It may be they are behind a firewall and the you are only seeing the firewall and your connection request doesn't get passed to her computer.
it is her i.p. and no she is not behind a firewall.i had no packet loss when i pinged her.

Do you know if she has a DHCP address? or is it a static address?
she has a dhcp address.
both xp and 10.2.3 fAIL to connect,and the box for the failed connection comes up right away,seems like it's not pasing through my router.is there something i need to enable/disable? i have a linksys befr41 if that helps.
thanks for any help!
p.s.her problem is that print center is saying her driver for her printer is not installed? epson 777.was working before xmas when i was there.epsons' site doesn't have the driver for download since it's part of jag install cd.which is sitting beside me(500 miles away).

Are you entering a colon and the "display number" after the IP address? like 123.456.789.012:1

I seem to remember it taking me forever to figure that out, then it worked.

gthyb · Jan 18, 2003, 01:12 AM

you can't use RDC for Counter-Strike. CS is the only reason i own a PC.

Hi I'm Ben · Jan 18, 2003, 01:20 AM

Originally posted by gthyb:
you can't use RDC for Counter-Strike. CS is the only reason i own a PC.

i'll pwn you.
i bought a pc just for counter strike. lol.

hwshi · Jan 18, 2003, 11:51 AM

awasspass, yes i entered a display number.can't figure this damn problem out.

UnixMac · Jan 18, 2003, 11:53 PM

A valid alternative to VPC for me is a PC... I have a netvista P4 that cost me a whopping $700...with XP Pro to boot!

It use it as a firewall..and the occational game

ngrundy · Jan 19, 2003, 01:36 AM

I use RDC to connect to my w2k file server. It sits in a cupboard in another room and the only cables connected to it are power, ethernet and a serial cable to my DEC Alpha.