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Mac Guru · 05:00 PM

A friend asked me to post this poll...

What browser would you use if there wasn't any difference in the speed things were rendered... or the way things were displayed?

schalliol · Jan 16, 2003, 04:58 PM

If everything is the same, going with Apple makes sense, but I still think MS will try to make stuff that won't work with others. I almost picked IE for that reason.

I do miss some features of IE though (auto fill, command-click panning, etc.).

willed · Jan 16, 2003, 05:03 PM

Chimera: Tabs

schalliol · Jan 16, 2003, 05:10 PM

I saw somewhere that tabs were coming to Safari, where I don't know.

mitchell_pgh · Jan 16, 2003, 05:33 PM

I bet your friend wants to see that we would all pick Safari over IE. But it just makes sense. If they were all 100% equal, I would use whatever was pre-installed on my computer.

Politics aside, that's like asking if you would rather have AC or DC in your computer if they were the same...

yzeater · Jan 16, 2003, 05:39 PM

Safari, of course. Support the company that makes the good stuff

step · Jan 16, 2003, 05:40 PM

if every one was the same, who would you like best?

Hi I'm Ben · Jan 16, 2003, 05:41 PM

i like the way safari does bookmarks.
and i'm huge with my bookmarks. so i pick safari. I think bookmarks alone are the reason i've chose to stick with it.

Mac Guru · Jan 16, 2003, 05:53 PM

yes I too think it's a silly question. All things= makes nothing different.

Mac Guru

schalliol · Jan 16, 2003, 06:22 PM

then ammend it. All pages LOOK the same when used and are fast, but all interface is as on standard browser?

Millennium · Jan 16, 2003, 08:08 PM

If there were no difference in speed or standards-compliance, you say?

In that case, I'd grab a build of Phoenix and run that (I chose Mozilla since it's as close as your poll comes, both of them being XUL-based Gecko browsers). A lean interface just as the other lightweights have, but with insane potential for extensibility, and all in about the same size footprint as Chimera.

If I couldn't run that, I'd run Mozilla. Same reason: it's all about extensibility.

Mac Guru · Jan 16, 2003, 08:21 PM

Yes Millennium, THAT is what his questious SHOULD have been. Oh well it's what he wanted me to ask

Mac Guru

Developer · Jan 16, 2003, 08:29 PM

Interesting to note, that 80% would use a browser without tabs.

MacGorilla · Jan 16, 2003, 08:39 PM

tabs aren't important to me. I would IE because I can turn off the quartz smoothing which bothers my eyes sometimes. But I love Safari

Superchicken · Jan 16, 2003, 08:43 PM

I'd choose Safari cause I wanna try it but don't have Jaguar

and I hate IE... and Chimera doesn't handle text feilds like I like... Mozilla's interface annoys me... so yeah... omni web is cool though. And iCab when I tried it really sucked.

daSilVetZ · Jan 16, 2003, 08:43 PM

Definitly Safari.. Apple all the way

cpac · Jan 16, 2003, 09:38 PM

Omniweb.

The extras in their interface (shortcuts, ad blocking, &c.) make all the difference. Add in the interface inprovements that are sure to come with 5.0, and I can't see choosing anything else.

Gul Banana · Jan 16, 2003, 10:39 PM

*registers extreme agreement with cpac.. if all browsers had the same rendering speed and standards compliance, OW still has the best interface hands-down*

TheIceMan · Jan 16, 2003, 11:26 PM

Originally posted by cpac:
Omniweb.

The extras in their interface (shortcuts, ad blocking, &c.) make all the difference. Add in the interface inprovements that are sure to come with 5.0, and I can't see choosing anything else.

I'm with OmniWeb too. Especially if they come out with tabs! Man, nobody comes close to Omni's beautiful interface.

Adam Betts · 12:01 AM

Originally posted by cpac:
Omniweb.

The extras in their interface (shortcuts, ad blocking, &c.) make all the difference. Add in the interface inprovements that are sure to come with 5.0, and I can't see choosing anything else.

Unfortunately, the GUI in OmniWeb is CPU-hogging and dog-slow. I prefer the snappy feeling of Safari.

For the record, I voted for Safari even though I love OmniWeb too. Small Real Estate, innovative features (mostly in Safari 1.0... I heard few upcoming features and it's.. wow!), SnapBack kick ass, dotted line, bookmarks, etc etc.

OmniWeb is good but it's more of attempting at duplicating what Apple *WOULD* do with their own browser.

ARENA · Jan 17, 2003, 12:15 AM

I'd go with Safari.

If rendering speed and look were the same in all browsers, Safari would still have the best browser GUI imho. Simple, unobtrusive, powerful and unique features like integrated google and snapback, adavanced bookmarks managment.
And like Adam said, the speed of the application interface itself is also very important, in that field Safari is also the best.

The final Pro of Safari: it's Apple branded. That, at least for me, is fundamental when choosing the best broser.

cpac · Jan 17, 2003, 12:57 AM

Originally posted by Adam Betts:
Unfortunately, the GUI in OmniWeb is CPU-hogging and dog-slow. I prefer the snappy feeling of Safari
...
OmniWeb is good but it's more of attempting at duplicating what Apple *WOULD* do with their own browser.

what do you mean the GUI in OW is CPU hogging/slow?

Rendering speed is admittedly not on par with the other browsers, but we're asked to assume it is. Safari might feel faster because of the rollovers on the favorites bar, but drop down menus don't appear any faster...

I'm not sure it can be said that OmniWeb is attempting to "duplicate" what apple "would" do... (that seems to be, by definition, not duplicating, as it hasn't been done). Regardless, OW's current UI was created long before Safari came out...

I agree that Safari currently feels Snappier?, but I believe most, if not all of that, is due to rendering speed differences.

CharlesS · Jan 17, 2003, 01:36 AM

If the rendering was as good as it is with other browsers, I would definitely choose OmniWeb. And when OW 5 comes out using Safari's engine, it's very likely I may do just that...

sworthy · Jan 17, 2003, 02:09 AM

seeing that it costs money and many don't have it... does anyone have a screenshot of omni web?

Gul Banana · Jan 17, 2003, 03:43 AM

You can download and use it for free - though it's technically a commercial application rather than shareware, if you don't pay for it it still works, just gives you nag screens.

MickS · Jan 17, 2003, 03:46 AM

If they were all equal in terms of page rendering I'd use the one that's the smallest and fastest.

kovacs · Jan 17, 2003, 06:29 AM

I would choose Omniweb if it was as fast as Safari and had Tabs and auto fill, the interface is so clean and I like the high "Cocoa" factor

Coxy · Jan 17, 2003, 07:13 AM

IE has more of the features that no other browsers do, and since we're assuming that all browsers were the same speed and had the same rendering capability...

After all, it's still my second favourite browser.

macmike42 · Jan 17, 2003, 08:00 AM

My choice would be Chimera all the way. Here's why:

(in order of priority)

1) Access to the source code. Don't like it? Change it! Don't forget to submit a .diff!
2) Seamless keychain integration. Well, nearly seemless, but pretty damn good for a 0.6 version.
3) Pure Cocoa GUI. I'm a Cocoa Nazi, so shoot me.
4) Meh. Tabs. I could live without them, but why would I want to?

cpac · Jan 17, 2003, 11:28 AM

Originally posted by sworthy:
seeing that it costs money and many don't have it... does anyone have a screenshot of omni web?

There are many at:

http://www.omnigroup.com/applications/omniweb/

Download it and play with it - it's not just the look that makes OW nice (I barely see anything as I tend to browse with only by favorites bar visible), it's the features.

Try using shortcuts (i.e. type "google" a space and then your search terms into the address bar, hit return and view your results instantly). You can add your own so you can search IMDB, Version Tracker, whatever you want this way)

Try turning on add blocking. I'm not just talking pop-ups, but advertisements within a page.

Try some of the automatic bookmark checking

Notice going "back" is instant for three pages

Notice turning on the spell checker for forms (like these threads) "sticks" unlike Safari

Notice they even make it sensitive to whether you have your system preferences set to Aqua or Graphite (!)

It's this sort of attention to detail, along with the fact that we know many more high quality features are coming, that would make OW the *only* choice if rendering speeds were equal.

absmiths · Jan 17, 2003, 12:35 PM

There will always be niche players (like Apple), but if rendering was the same across the board, I would decide based on real features (like robust cookie management, process flow, ease of use testing complex sites, integration with the OS, etc) and I would probably settle on more than one (like I do now).

absmiths · Jan 17, 2003, 12:40 PM

Originally posted by macmike42:
My choice would be Chimera all the way. Here's why:

(in order of priority)

1) Access to the source code. Don't like it? Change it! Don't forget to submit a .diff!
2) Seamless keychain integration. Well, nearly seemless, but pretty damn good for a 0.6 version.
3) Pure Cocoa GUI. I'm a Cocoa Nazi, so shoot me.
4) Meh. Tabs. I could live without them, but why would I want to?

I'm a software developer and I have absolutely no interest in even looking at the Chimera (or Mozilla, or Netscape 7) source code - let alone changing it. I would rather pay for a closed source commercial browser that was well designed (like Safari or OmniWeb) than use an open source one that I could modify at will. I already spend too much time writing software.

If Chimera would put the cookie manager from Mozilla back in it would be more useful.

cwasko · Jan 17, 2003, 01:31 PM

Originally posted by Gul Banana:
*registers extreme agreement with cpac.. if all browsers had the same rendering speed and standards compliance, OW still has the best interface hands-down*

Yup. Exactly.

shadybirdstan · Jan 17, 2003, 02:38 PM

I just voted but the question makes zero sense. I wouldn't get too caught up in the results on this one.

typoon · Jan 17, 2003, 02:42 PM

I would go with safari because like someone said the way it does bookmarks. Though I like the scrapbook feature in IE and that is the only reason I would keep it on my computer and use it.

benb · Jan 17, 2003, 03:21 PM

This is the most retarded thread ever. This is analogous to asking which I prefer; a Saab Sonett or the exact same car, but called a Ford Racer or something.

Ben

Superchicken · Jan 17, 2003, 03:51 PM

Originally posted by benb:
This is the most retarded thread ever. This is analogous to asking which I prefer; a Saab Sonett or the exact same car, but called a Ford Racer or something.

Ben

I'd choose the saab... I don't like ford.

waffffffle · Jan 17, 2003, 08:13 PM

Chimera, for its keyboard navigation that is almost as good as IE's and its superior keychain support.

cpac · Jan 17, 2003, 08:54 PM

Originally posted by benb:
This is the most retarded thread ever. This is analogous to asking which I prefer; a Saab Sonett or the exact same car, but called a Ford Racer or something.

Ben

Um no... It really seems to be a question of "which browser's GUI do you prefer?" which is far different from asking "if all the browsers were actually browser X and had different names, which would you prefer"

Perhaps not the most earth-shattering thread, but not nearly as bad as you claim it is.

Mac Zealot · Jan 17, 2003, 10:46 PM

Chimera. I like the developers :eg:

Heh, AC power in a computer would be dangerous to mess with o_O

[APi]TheMan · Jan 17, 2003, 11:02 PM

Originally posted by TheIceMan:
I'm with OmniWeb too. Especially if they come out with tabs! Man, nobody comes close to Omni's beautiful interface.

I loved OmniWeb when I used it. It was my main browser for at least a year... But when Chimera came out I made the switch.

I never knew why Omniweb was my main browser, it was slow as heck on my machine. But I guess that's how it is now with Safari. I just use it... all the time... Maybe I'll give OmniWeb a try again. Who knows.

la_thomas · Jan 19, 2003, 02:27 AM

If all browsers were equal, there would be no need to choose.
They would have the same functionality and look the same.

Mathematically speaking, you wouldn't be able to distinguish browser A from browser B.

CharlesS · Jan 19, 2003, 03:18 AM

Originally posted by waffffffle:
Chimera, for its keyboard navigation that is almost as good as IE's and its superior keychain support.

OmniWeb, on the other hand, has keyboard navigation that is much better than IE's. Want to select a hyperlink using the keyboard? Type the first few letters in its name. Get used to using that feature, and you will never be able to stand hitting the tab key 50,000 times in a page with lots of hyperlinks on it (like many pages, including the MacNN Forums main page). Then, the tab key is free to select only text fields, so you can go to a site like switchboard.com and enter the information in all the forms, and not have the problem where you hit tab and start typing, only to have to go hit tab again and retype what you just typed because the damn thing selected some hyperlink (like the state list link at switchboard). If for some reason you actually want the idiotic 'tab tab tab tab tab tab tab tab tab tab tab tab tab tab tab tab tab tab tab tab tab tab tab tab return' behavior, you can use command-down arrow and command-up arrow, which in OmniWeb do the same thing as IE's tab and option-tab.

The latest builds of Mozilla and Phoenix also have this feature, making their keyboard navigation also better than IE's. Chimera is using an old version of Gecko, so it doesn't have this yet, but when it eventually updates to the latest version of Gecko, it's keyboard navigation will be better than IE's.

Which isn't terribly difficult to do, since IE's keyboard navigation sucks ass.

wil · Jan 19, 2003, 03:34 AM

This is a wierd poll. I feel like I'm being asked "If you had a $1 bill, a $10 bill, a $20 bill and a $100 bill but found out that they're all worth $50...which bill would you use to pay for lunch tomorrow?"

I bring this up because that's how I read it...maybe I'm missing something?

In the half-full half-emtpy zen way of things, I just realized that I'd have $200!

juanvaldes · Jan 19, 2003, 05:35 AM

stupid poll but I'll bite...

Omniweb. Best user experance ever. Flexable and powerful user options. Only things it's missing IMO is tabs & a better engin.

gadster · Jan 19, 2003, 06:07 AM

Equal in what?

If you mean rendering speed, then Safari, love the bookmarking dialog. ('cept it should have a 'new folder' option)

If'n you mean features, then still Safari. I'd like to encourage Apple to make more software. They do such a good job.

Remember all those threads about how slow Mac browsing was? Remember all the technocrap answers? Well Apple just stomped on that rubbish. Let's see them do it for Office productivity software and see what happens.
Address Book, Xserve, Rendezvous, iPod (PDA in diguise), Wi-fi, iSynch, laptops, bluetooth and mobile phones. Now for the Office software. Hmm.

Silky Voice of The Gorn · Jan 19, 2003, 07:13 AM

Call me cynical, but I think this poll was designed to elicit lots of "Ch1m3ra! teh tabs r00l!" responses...

kovacs · Jan 19, 2003, 08:06 AM

One thing I still miss in both chimera and safari is auto completion of URL's, i.e. in omniweb and IE you can just type apple in the address bar to go to http://www.apple.com, in safari you have to type the full address and because I use an azerty keyboard most "." become an ";" . Most websites end on ".com" anyway...

Simon · Jan 19, 2003, 09:18 AM

Originally posted by kovacs:
One thing I still miss in both chimera and safari is auto completion of URL's, i.e. in omniweb and IE you can just type apple in the address bar to go to http://www.apple.com, in safari you have to type the full address and because I use an azerty keyboard most "." become an ";" . Most websites end on ".com" anyway...

Actually I don't see your problem. If I type apple in Safari or Chimera I get a list of websites with apple in the URL. The top selection is www.apple.com. This is exactly how it should be. There are many sites with the same name but different TLDs (like trash.net or trash.org) and I'd really dislike having just .com be insterted. IMHO a list is much better UI.

malbicho · Jan 19, 2003, 09:32 AM

I would choose Chimera, cause of the great and clean interface. Cause it is free, but not only free =no money: it is free software, so any improvement can be used by all the other projects developers.
Anyway, the poll question seems to me someway freaky

: there would be no browsers if they were all the same. there would be no reason for several browsers and proprietary software.