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Liquidity X · Jan 17, 2003, 09:42 PM

Well obviously since the release they have recived a TON of feedback/bugs and I bet are bug squashing 24/7, do you think we will see a new verion ASAP? or will they hold off for ever like they did with iSync?

ARENA · Jan 17, 2003, 09:54 PM

My guess is that the next version will be a 1.0 release... It should be soon though, not as much time like in between the iSync beta and final releases.

juanvaldes · Jan 17, 2003, 10:03 PM

Originally posted by ARENA:
My guess is that the next version will be a 1.0 release... It should be soon though, not as much time like in between the iSync beta and final releases.

that all depends on the featuers they want in the 1.0 version. If all they do it squash bugs and maybe adda little more spit and polish, it could be as soon as under two months. But if they are planning on putting tab browsing in (as rumor suggests) then it could easly take as long as iSync etc...

Personally I think it was dumb to release it this soon, but whatever.

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Jan 17, 2003, 10:36 PM

The second release came out ASAP because it was erasing peoples computers and not allowing them to print. Also the piss poor Flash performace gave them bad press.

The beta that we are currently using expires in June so I don't think Apple is in any hurry. Didn't iSync take months to go final?

oVeRmInD911 · Jan 17, 2003, 11:04 PM

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
The second release came out ASAP because it was erasing peoples computers and not allowing them to print. Also the piss poor Flash performace gave them bad press.

The beta that we are currently using expires in June so I don't think Apple is in any hurry. Didn't iSync take months to go final?

Yes

Chaaaosss · Jan 18, 2003, 12:49 AM

I have no idea where you people get your crazy ideas from. When software goes BETA, it's feature complete. That means they're not going to add any new features until the NEXT RELEASE. What they'll be doing for however long it takes them is fixing all the beta bugs to get Safari to Final Candidate. Once they work out some minor kinks there, it goes GM and end of story. If you want new features, you're going to wait a while. Trust me.

Mac Guru · Jan 18, 2003, 02:12 AM

Well they DID add some new things to iSync after it became beta, albeit SMALL ones but they were new features, not just fixes.

Mac Guru

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Jan 18, 2003, 03:21 AM

Originally posted by Chaaaosss:
I have no idea where you people get your crazy ideas from. When software goes BETA, it's feature complete. That means they're not going to add any new features until the NEXT RELEASE. What they'll be doing for however long it takes them is fixing all the beta bugs to get Safari to Final Candidate. Once they work out some minor kinks there, it goes GM and end of story. If you want new features, you're going to wait a while. Trust me.

Nope, not true, the final version of iSync had more features then the beta did. It was not feature complete at the time of the public Beta.

Nonsuch · Jan 18, 2003, 03:25 AM

Originally posted by Mac Guru:
Well they DID add some new things to iSync after it became beta, albeit SMALL ones but they were new features, not just fixes.

Were these entirely new features, or features already in the code base that weren't enabled in the GUI? There are several such features already lurking in Safari, IIRC, so maybe we'll see a few of those in the final. But tabs? I doubt it.

iDriveX · Jan 18, 2003, 03:40 AM

Yeah if that was true then Mac OS X 10.0.0 woud have looked exactly like the Public BETA. Don't be an A-Hole.

Northform · Jan 18, 2003, 07:42 AM

Although betas are supposed to be feature complete, they usually add stuff during the cycle. I believe that the only reason that we've seen an update to Safari is because there was a potentially dangerous exploit in the original version. There might be one or two releases before the final, but it's not going to be like Moz/Omni/Chi. For every release that Apple makes they have to release the KHTML modifications and while it's not like they don't want to, it does take time.

mitchell_pgh · Jan 18, 2003, 09:03 AM

I think they should take their time and test it really well or offer another beta in a month or so. No need to rush this thing out the door. Obviously everyone using Safari is an early adopter (AKA, VERY early) I wouldn't be surprised if they took at least until late May to release a final 1.0 version.

We also need to remember that this isn't a very big browser and is somewhat streamlined. Hopefully changes will be swift.

Millennium · Jan 18, 2003, 09:36 AM

My guess is, we'll see an 0.9 before a 1.0. That seems to be why Apple numbered the current release 0.8; they wanted some wiggle room with the version numbers.

Personally, I'd be happy if they put WebCore into CVS or if Hyatt could post the WebCores from the changes he has made to it since Safari's release. I'd very much like to rip out WebCore v48 (the version in the "official" Safari release) and run a later one, but nothing has been made available, even though we know there have been changes. Among other things, it looks like several more of the css/edge pages now render correctly, which is a Good Thing, because you can do some seriously cool stuff with those techniques.

Catfish_Man · Jan 18, 2003, 10:02 AM

Originally posted by Millennium:
My guess is, we'll see an 0.9 before a 1.0. That seems to be why Apple numbered the current release 0.8; they wanted some wiggle room with the version numbers.

Personally, I'd be happy if they put WebCore into CVS or if Hyatt could post the WebCores from the changes he has made to it since Safari's release. I'd very much like to rip out WebCore v48 (the version in the "official" Safari release) and run a later one, but nothing has been made available, even though we know there have been changes. Among other things, it looks like several more of the css/edge pages now render correctly, which is a Good Thing, because you can do some seriously cool stuff with those techniques.

Have you read Hyatt's latest blog post (www.mozillazine.org/weblogs/hyatt) ? They're making a Safari SDK called WebKit. Also, they've fixed a ton more bugs

Millennium · Jan 18, 2003, 10:48 AM

Originally posted by Catfish_Man:
Have you read Hyatt's latest blog post (www.mozillazine.org/weblogs/hyatt) ? They're making a Safari SDK called WebKit. Also, they've fixed a ton more bugs

I follow Hyatt's blog regularly; I have ever since his Chimera days.

Yeah; I know about the WebKit SDK. That doesn't concern me so much; I'm not currently working on anything that would use it. What I'd like to see is a way to pull more recent WebCore.framework versions (and, of course, correcponding JavaScriptCore.framework versions). Whether it's through the Apple Website or CVS doesn't matter to me. But people have already figured out how to run Safari with a custom WebCore; only problem is, there's no practical use for it now because they're dragging their feet in getting the recent source up, as the GPL/LGPL obligates them to do (I forget which one KHTML is under, but they both carry that obligation).

Granted, running more recent WebCores isn't quite the same thing as Chimera nightlies. In fact, it's almost the opposite. There have been no substantial improvements to Chimera's branch of the Gecko engine in a long time, and the nightlies there have focused on interface. Conversely, running a custom WebCore only reflects improvements to the rendering engine, and does not change the interface. But it's still a way to track the improvement of the browser without relying on one person's blog.

megus · Jan 18, 2003, 11:01 AM

Originally posted by Millennium:
What I'd like to see is a way to pull more recent WebCore.framework versions (and, of course, correcponding JavaScriptCore.framework versions). Whether it's through the Apple Website or CVS doesn't matter to me. But people have already figured out how to run Safari with a custom WebCore; only problem is, there's no practical use for it now because they're dragging their feet in getting the recent source up, as the GPL/LGPL obligates them to do (I forget which one KHTML is under, but they both carry that obligation).

Wouldn't it be difficult for Apple to handle the bug-reports, if everybody was running different/modified versions of WebCore/JavaScriptCore?

//megus

tikki · Jan 18, 2003, 08:11 PM

Originally posted by megus:
Wouldn't it be difficult for Apple to handle the bug-reports, if everybody was running different/modified versions of WebCore/JavaScriptCore?

//megus

Bingo. That's why that won't happen.

Monthly releases would make me a happy camper, but this beta is usable, so I can wait.

Producer · Jan 18, 2003, 08:22 PM

Well there is this learning tool from line6 called guitarport which they I believe requires webkit sdk to function... i did a search to find out when they plan on releasing it and I believe in the forum someone heard march/april...

::dios:: · Jan 18, 2003, 10:13 PM

When you read the Term of License in Safari you'll notice it says that the license will terminate, "upon the commercial release of the Apple Software, or June 30, 2003, whichever occurs first." This should help any speculation to when Safari Final will be released.

Superchicken · Jan 18, 2003, 10:22 PM

my guess... .09 will work, perfectly fine as is, then 1 will be all featurey and it'll be out in June so Jobs can toute how awsome it is at Mac world NY

if apple shows up that is

tikki · Jan 18, 2003, 11:10 PM

Originally posted by Superchic[k]en:
my guess... .09 will work, perfectly fine as is, then 1 will be all featurey and it'll be out in June so Jobs can toute how awsome it is at Mac world NY if apple shows up that is

And let's hope that they do, because I have full intentions of making my way there this year!

Millennium · Jan 19, 2003, 01:19 PM

Originally posted by megus:
Wouldn't it be difficult for Apple to handle the bug-reports, if everybody was running different/modified versions of WebCore/JavaScriptCore?

Depends. I don't know the structure that the Bug Button uses to send messages back to Apple, but I would hope it includes the version of WebCore which is being used (this will become a necessity once Safari hits 1.0, since it can't always be guaranteed that people will upgrade to later versions). From there, it's not terribly difficult for someone to tell whether or not a bug has already been fixed in later versions Of WebCore/JavaScriptCore. Since there's some structure to the messages, including where the bug is occurring and the general nature of the problem, it's also possible to immediately flag things as "potential duplicates". In fact, I'd imagine Apple probably has something like this already set up; that way, they can prioritize what bugs get fixed by how many people submit a bug for that place, of that type, and with that version of WebCore, and then go through and read them to find more details.