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Vanquish · Jan 19, 2003, 07:48 AM

Well, I would like to build a very cheap box that will be used as a backup/mp3 server for my TiBook. What I would like is Pentium 3 between 650Mhz and 1Ghz (could I get this cheap ?).

Anyway, does anyone know of a good resource on building cheap custom boxes ? (a PC-forum or something like that)

Also: What do you think: Red Hat or Mandrake ? Or should I go with BSD ?

galarneau · Jan 19, 2003, 08:20 AM

You can use a much less powerful box for a file server. A Pentium II 233 would do fine, especially if you are the only one accessing the files. If you had many simultaneous users, then you might want more horsepower, and probably a faster HD.

As for the distro, well... that depends on your experience. RedHat and Mandrake are good for new users. BSD is more difficult to setup, but not hard if you have supported hardware etc. If it were me, I would use Gentoo. Very fast, customized to your machine, and a very nice package management system.

int69h · Jan 19, 2003, 08:45 AM

FreeBSD...

Download 2 floppies and you're ready to install. The packaging system is excellent as well.

Gentoo? Only if you're willing to wait days for a usable box.

Especially if you go with a low powered processor.

galarneau · Jan 19, 2003, 09:09 AM

yeah, but if you want to get the most bang for your buck (or processor cycle), Gentoo allows you to install ONLY what you want and set up the distro to run as fast as possible on that hardware. Sure, it could take a couple days to get setup, but some of us like to tinker. Gentoo is for tinkerers (is that a word?).... should have mentioned that, I suppose.

Vanquish · Jan 19, 2003, 01:13 PM

tinkering is good

OreoCookie · Jan 20, 2003, 02:39 AM

Setting up FreeBSD is not as hard as it sounds. IMHO it is easier to administer due to its simpler folder layout.

Get a used PC from a friend of yours, put in a large harddrive and go. Maybe you should take a ?newer' (650-1,000 MHz) simply because of the newer ATA interface (otherwise you would have to buy a new one just for that tasty 120 gig harddrive).

If this machine is for backups only, how about buying a second HD and set them up as RAID 1 (mirroring)? Use a journaled filesystem (ReiserFS, XFS, ext3) or SoftUpdates on FreeBSD. BTW FreeBSD 5.0 is released, with background fsck, and many more nice features.

WJMoore · Jan 20, 2003, 04:28 AM

FreeBSD is the go I reckon. I have a PII 350 as home server that provides Internet access to the home network, runs a webserver and proxy. It is very reliable (current uptime is 126 days if that is significant at all) and easy enough to setup. It is also very similar to OS X in the arrangement and configuration of (UNIX) things (for obvious reasons). I also have Linux (Mandrake 7) installed on another PC but FreeBSD just feels more at home as a server. I feel Linux tries too much to be a desktop OS. Something it doesn't do half as well as OS X.

Wesley

OreoCookie · Jan 20, 2003, 06:34 AM

Originally posted by WJMoore:
FreeBSD is the go I reckon. I have a PII 350 as home server that provides Internet access to the home network, runs a webserver and proxy. It is very reliable (current uptime is 126 days if that is significant at all) and easy enough to setup. It is also very similar to OS X in the arrangement and configuration of (UNIX) things (for obvious reasons). I also have Linux (Mandrake 7) installed on another PC but FreeBSD just feels more at home as a server. I feel Linux tries too much to be a desktop OS. Something it doesn't do half as well as OS X.

Wesley

Bingo. Linux is too confusing, especially these distro-dependent ways to config your box.

Simon · Jan 20, 2003, 07:34 AM

I would like to vote for Debian Linux. Debian is special because it is 100% GNU, open and free. I installed it on my iMac once in about ten minutes. All you need is a 2MB download which you copy to the empty boot partition. You then re-boot from that partition and the Debian installer gets everything over the net. The installer GUI sucks (like 1985 DOS), but it's user-friendly in the sense that the installer explains everything you are asked and helps you in giving the right answers. No fuss, no costs. Of course you can also get a CD with all the necessary files if you don't have broadband access. If you need some URLs just tell me - I don't have them here at work, but I can look them up at home.

dreilly1 · Jan 20, 2003, 08:11 AM

After being a Linux geek for years and years, I was pleasantly suprised with Mandrake when a Windows-using friend of mine wanted to try it out. The install went without a hitch, and configured lots of stuff automatically. Even the IDE CD-writer worked fine, which can be a pain to configure if you don't know what you're doing. Remember that Mandrake is basically RedHat for Newbies. Too bad the company is bankrupt.

I use Gentoo at home, but I second the notion that it may not be the best option for setting up a cheap box. You need something that will compile stuff reasonably well, which means a more recent computer with a ton of memory and spare HD space. If you want to get a bigger box that can also be used as a file server, and aren't afraid of the command line, check it out!

Don't have enough experience with FreeBSD to recommend it one way or another.

Now, as for actually sharing the files once you get the Unix box set up, I'm currently using Netatalk to make my Linux box into a file server, and I've found it to be much slower than regular Apple networking. It's fine for the backing up of small files which is what I mainly use it for, but MP3's stored on it can't be played over the network because the connection is too slow. (I mount the drive on the target Mac, and try to play the MP3's either through iTunes or mpg123.) I'm probably doing something wrong, but I haven't had the time lately to debug my setup (or try a newer version of netatalk).

Scarpa · Jan 21, 2003, 05:46 PM

I'll second Debian.

I just recently setup Debian on a low-speed PC I got from my parents. It was my first Linux install and was fairly painless.

I liked the ability to install the 'base' system and then add packages one at a time until I got a custom install. I am not using it as anything more than a headless server sitting in my garage though, I don't think I'd like to tackle X11 from scratch.

Also, there is a wonderful CD-based Debian distribution called Knoppix that is truly amazing. It runs off of the CD, autodetecting hardware on startup. With no user input it boots to KDE in about 5 minutes. It also has an installer on it if you want to run it off the hard drive.

Either way, good luck and have fun. I've found my experiences with Linux so far to be good beyond my expectations.

thebunny · Jan 21, 2003, 08:50 PM

Linux all the way. Mandrake/RH for easy install, Debian/Gentoo for tweaking and speed. FreeBSD is fast and stable but you just can't beat Linux for flexibility and the amount of software available.

int69h · Jan 21, 2003, 10:03 PM

but you just can't beat Linux for flexibility and the amount of software available

Surely you mean commercial binary only software. /usr/ports is around 8000 packages on FreeBSD these days, while Debian claims 8710. I wonder if all of those are for Debian stable? Either way it's close. Oh yeah, you can run Linux binaries on FreeBSD.

Perhaps I should start a "Linux is dead" campaign on /.

slimmy · Jan 22, 2003, 06:44 AM

As for hardware, see Ars Technica for how to build cheap boxes of all kinds.

http://arstechnica.com/

slim

Originally posted by Vanquish:
Well, I would like to build a very cheap box that will be used as a backup/mp3 server for my TiBook. What I would like is Pentium 3 between 650Mhz and 1Ghz (could I get this cheap ?).

Anyway, does anyone know of a good resource on building cheap custom boxes ? (a PC-forum or something like that)

Also: What do you think: Red Hat or Mandrake ? Or should I go with BSD ?

malbicho · Jan 23, 2003, 04:06 PM

Originally posted by Vanquish:

Also: What do you think: Red Hat or Mandrake ? Or should I go with BSD ?

If you go for Linux i'd suggest Slackware: fast, performing, easy to install. First distribution ever

FreeBSD is simply great, release 5.0 is out in these days. And fast as hell at least and even on some old sparcstations 20 i have.

malbicho · Jan 23, 2003, 04:13 PM

Originally posted by Vanquish:

Also: What do you think: Red Hat or Mandrake ? Or should I go with BSD ?

If you go for Linux i'd suggest Slackware: fast, performing, easy to install. First distribution ever

FreeBSD is simply great, release 5.0 is out in these days. And fast as hell at least and even on some old sparcstations 20 i have.

int69h · Jan 23, 2003, 09:29 PM

If you go for Linux i'd suggest Slackware: fast, performing, easy to install. First distribution ever

Bzzt. I don't know if it was the first, but I do know I was running SLS before Slackware existed.

Vanquish · Jan 26, 2003, 03:31 AM

Thanks for the replies. If I go with a x86 server it'll use Gentoo I think. But this came just to my mind: what if I just go with a PowerMac 8600/9600 or maybe beige G3 as a server ? what would you recommend ? OSX or Linux (or even OS9; I think I know OS9 enough to make it stable enough)

Vanquish · Jan 26, 2003, 11:20 AM

and one other thing: do these 8600/9600/G3 PowerMacs support sleep ? that would be ideal, so they could wake up when I try to access them. (I think that's possible under OSX or am I wrong ?). Or do I really have to go with a B&W G3 for this funtion. I don't want that because I want to keep the box very cheap and invest a little bit in SCSI hard drives.

SPiNdustrious · Jan 28, 2003, 11:08 PM

I had been trying to install OS X on my beige G3 MT 300Mhz and essentially gave up.

My first Linux install was Red Hat on a buddy's Pentium II. It works as a fine lil' server.

I finally installed Yellow Dog on my G3 but found that I wasn't proud of my choice. It worked. It was extremely easy to install. It just didn't give me any sense of accomplishment. It also organized everything in this icky way, just like Red Hat.

I upgraded to Gentoo. The installation was time-consuming (waiting for the compiling to finish again and again and again...) and convoluted, but in the end worked out well. My machine is noticeably faster than when it ran YDL.

If you have a zippy connection, take the time to install Gentoo, regardless of your box's architecture. This isn't your primary machine, so you don't need to be using it within a couple of hours of beginning the process.

You'll also learn a ton about your system since you will be intimately involved with its entire construction. This knowledge will prove invaluable in diagnosing problems and configuring your system to perfectly meet your needs.

Good luck. It's fun no matter what road you choose.

Peter

Vanquish · Feb 3, 2003, 07:57 AM

Does Gentoo support multiprocessing (like the PowerMac 9600/200MP)

pimephalis · Feb 3, 2003, 10:02 AM

Originally posted by Vanquish:
Thanks for the replies. If I go with a x86 server it'll use Gentoo I think. But this came just to my mind: what if I just go with a PowerMac 8600/9600 or maybe beige G3 as a server ? what would you recommend ? OSX or Linux (or even OS9; I think I know OS9 enough to make it stable enough)

I'd like to chime in with a vote for Debian as an alternative to Gentoo. Remember that Debian has simply the best application/software installation routines around, the wonderful apt. It's not for nothing that the fink developers chose that model for their software. And with apt you can install from source and do the compilation you want, squeezing out the most horsepower from your machine.

Gentoo is nice, but it's still relatively new while Debian has a HUGE support base behind it, and has been rock solid for years.

SPiNdustrious · Feb 9, 2003, 12:58 AM

Sorry I'm coming back to this thread so late in the game...

I don't know if Gentoo has multiprocessor support in its PPC architecture branch.

Gentoo's Portage system also makes it a breeze to install supported packages from source, even to your specifications. It's an impressive tool.

Peter