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Terri · Jan 22, 2003, 02:45 PM

I'm running X on a single processor 450 box with 1.25 gigs of memory and a fast hard drive. It a little sluggish sometimes, but not bad at all.

I'm trying to decide if I should pick up another 750 megs of memory so that I will be maxed out at 2 gigs or get a video card that will support Quartz Extreme.

A video card will cost a little more then the memory, but not that much more. I'm running two monitors so I would need a card with duel monitor support. Any suggestions for a video card?

I don't want to spend too much on this box since I'm planning to buy a new one later this year when new chips come out. Just trying to squeeze another 8 months or so out of this one.

CheesePuff · Jan 22, 2003, 02:49 PM

Maybe spend that money on a Dual 800 MHz G4 upgrade from PowerLogix and Sonnet (I forgot if they make one for the 100 MHz bus crowd).

1.25 GB of RAM seems like just enough. I'd say get the ATI Radeon 9000 Pro 64 MB DDR for $155 from MacWarehouse. It's great for higher end games as well.

Camelot · Jan 22, 2003, 02:51 PM

The important element you missed out of your post is what applications you run.

Some apps will benefit more from Quartz Extreme than others, just like some will benefit more from the extra ram.

However, if the ram you have is already sufficient for the apps you're running, then adding more ram isn't going to make any significant difference.

dfiler · Jan 22, 2003, 02:58 PM

You should definately get a QE compatible video card. Unless you're doing video editing, there will likely be litle if any speedup from additional memory. If you do a lot of simultaneous work on large image files you might see a slight improvement when switching between windows. In general, OS X loves more memory, but at 1.25 gigs, you're probably more than fine. You can check your usage by looking at the number of pageouts reported by the 'top' command in the terminal.

With QE on a new video card, everything will be a bit snappier. QE has the potential to free up CPU cycles by off-loading some work to the GPU but this is not noticeable most of the time. The faster video card also helps significantly even without QE.

I would suggest getting a radeon 8500. For your generation of machine, it is a nice balance of cost and performance. You can even get a PC version for cheap and then flash it with the Mac ROM.

Before getting more memory, i'd also suggest a dual CPU upgrade. If you can find a dual 450 or dual 500 for cheap, your machine would probably last you until at least the first revision of 970 based machines.

timster · Jan 22, 2003, 03:08 PM

One should mention that unless you have a MDD G4 (which seems very unlikely from your cpu specification...) the maximum ram you can put in your system is 1.5GB.

Um, let me rephrase. You probably have 4 memory slots, so you COULD stuff 2GB in there, but only 1.5 would show up in OSX (its due to the memory controller chip limitations on that motherboard).

So save your time and effort. Get a Quartz Extreme ready video card. Going from 1.25GB to 1.5GB in 99.99% of the cases of everyday use will merit you exactly nothing.

Superchicken · Jan 22, 2003, 03:10 PM

Graphics card deffinately... and then maybe a powerlogix card... and then a new 970 tower

Millennium · Jan 22, 2003, 03:49 PM

Although it's true that you can never have too much RAM, 1.25 gigs is significantly past the point of diminishing returns at the present time. Given that, I'd say to go for the video card.

You might also go for a processor upgrade. Don't go dual-proc, though. The system bus on that machine is slow enough that anything over 1.6 GHz total isn't going to do you any good; the bus itself will become the bottleneck. There are no 1.6 GHz processors out at the moment, yes, but this is why dual-proc isn't a good idea.

Terri · Jan 22, 2003, 06:57 PM

Originally posted by Millennium:
Although it's true that you can never have too much RAM, 1.25 gigs is significantly past the point of diminishing returns at the present time. Given that, I'd say to go for the video card.

I don't play games, but I do keep a lot of programs open. I do web design mostly and often do a lot of production stuff in the Finder. I often have 2 or 3 browsers open, Photoshop, ImageReady, GoLive, BBEdit, Illustrator, VirtualPC (for checking pages), Terminal, Classic (some of my web utilites isn't out for X yet), and a bunch of small utilities and stuff. I notice that VirtualPC seems to cause the most slowdown.

The machine is fine until I open a bunch of stuff so that is why I was thinking more memory. I really don't want to spend more then a few hundred on this machine since I know that I will by something once Apple gets something besides the current chip out.

Sarc · Jan 22, 2003, 07:42 PM

the 450 maxs. out at 1.5 gigs of RAM ...

Gul Banana · Jan 22, 2003, 07:54 PM

I say definitely the new video card - I have a 400 with "only" 448 MB of RAM, and putting a Radeon 8500 in there was the single biggest speedup of anything.

Terri · Jan 22, 2003, 07:54 PM

Originally posted by Sarc:
the 450 maxs. out at 1.5 gigs of RAM ...

No it doesn't, it's Mac 9 that doesn't read more then 1.5 gigs. I'm in Mac OS X full time now and there is four slots on the mother board.

I've got one 512 and three 256 sticks in there now. PC100 memory is going for under $60 for a 512 stick so it's awful cheap and I can even trade in my 256 sticks at the local computer show that comes here each month.

Terri · Jan 22, 2003, 07:56 PM

Originally posted by Gul Banana:
I say definitely the new video card - I have a 400 with "only" 448 MB of RAM, and putting a Radeon 8500 in there was the single biggest speedup of anything.

What programs are you running?

delete · Jan 22, 2003, 08:23 PM

I also have a G4/450. One thing you should find out is if you have an early model. There is something about the first units (like mine) that makes them unable to accept a processor upgrade. Check out XLR8yourmac.com for info. I also have 1.25 gigs and run 2 monitors. I purchased an 8500 video card when they first came out and it's worked well.

CheesePuff · Jan 22, 2003, 08:33 PM

$405.00 at Other World Computing (www.macsales.com) for an 800 MHz PowerPC G4 upgrade, with 2 MB L3 cache which will also boost speed.

You can also go for the ATI Radeon 7500 32 MB DDR video card instead of the 9000 Pro for price issues since you don't play games and the 7500 is just fine for Quartz Extreme. I can always sell you mine for $100.

($55 less than the 9000 Pro).

MPC · Jan 22, 2003, 08:33 PM

If you always have VPC running you might want to grab a old cheap pc to check your pages on. I would think freeing up a big chunk of your cpu cycles would help more then anything else. On my iBook 600 VPC eats up 40% of the cpu when idle.

Sarc · Jan 22, 2003, 08:41 PM

Originally posted by Terri:
No it doesn't, it's Mac 9 that doesn't read more then 1.5 gigs. I'm in Mac OS X full time now and there is four slots on the mother board.

right, good thing to have X these days

cowerd · Jan 22, 2003, 09:54 PM

Best way to speed up the production process is to snag a cheap PC (~$400) to check webpages and coding, and then write many many letters to Adobe telling them to get their POS apps to run properly on OSX.

King Bob On The Cob · Jan 22, 2003, 10:00 PM

Get a monitorless windows box and run Microsoft's RDC instead of Virtual PC. You'd save a ton of CPU time not using VPC. (And you'd get some decent speeds)

juanvaldes · Jan 22, 2003, 10:39 PM

Originally posted by King Bob On The Cob:
Get a monitorless windows box and run Microsoft's RDC instead of Virtual PC. You'd save a ton of CPU time not using VPC. (And you'd get some decent speeds)

or get a KVM like my father and I both do. It will "feel" much faster then the RDC, since it will not be sending the display over the network.

- - e r i k - - · Jan 23, 2003, 01:59 AM

I were in almost the exact same situation. Single 400 with 1.25 gig RAM. The problem with these models is the 2X AGP bus. What you need to do is to buy a new video card. The absolute best for the money right now is to buy an OEM PC-version Radeon 8500 and then flash it. The procedure is dead simple and you get the best graphic performance you can squeeze out of that AGP for half of what you would have paid for the Mac edition (which do give you a DVI connector as opposed to two VGAs).

1.25 is plenty for everyday operation, and you'll really love QE.

Terri · Jan 23, 2003, 06:54 AM

Originally posted by - - e r i k - -:
IThe absolute best for the money right now is to buy an OEM PC-version Radeon 8500 and then flash it. The procedure is dead simple and you get the best graphic performance you can squeeze out of that AGP for half of what you would have paid for the Mac edition).

Two VGA ports is just what I need. Where can I find information on how to flash a PeeCee video card so that it will work on my Mac?

RealMadrid · Jan 23, 2003, 08:20 AM

I think this thread could be usefull:

http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.p...threadid=52779

GoGoReggieXPowars · Jan 23, 2003, 09:00 AM

You've got enough memory, I'd say processor first, then video card (depending on your budget). I've done both to my G4/400, upgraded to a flashed 8500 and recently bought a 800MHz processor upgrade. If you're going for a processor, get one with the L3 cache. My GigaDesigns 800 doesn't have one, and I can't really see all that much difference. In OS 9, Norton System Info shows the stock 400 at around 1000, and my updgraded machine around 1500 total, so it's not as fast as it could be.