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Kristoff · Jan 22, 2003, 06:05 PM

Currently on news.com

" X11 provides a windowing environment that lets Unix programs run on Mac OS X essentially the same way they do on their native operating systems. The tool also makes the process of developing a native OS X application faster, while allowing programs to run on a Mac in the meantime. Also, X11 running on OS X gives Unix users a portable option they might not have with Unix. "

riiing, riiiing....

It's the clue phone...and it's for C|Net.

int69h · Jan 22, 2003, 06:50 PM

X11 provides a windowing environment that lets Unix programs run on Mac OS X essentially the same way they do on their native operating systems.

Correct. One can even go so far as running them on their native OS and displaying them under OSX.

The tool also makes the process of developing a native OS X application faster, while allowing programs to run on a Mac in the meantime.

Again correct. It's kind of a loaded statement though. In most people's minds native means "uses the Cocoa widget framework".

Also, X11 running on OS X gives Unix users a portable option they might not have with Unix.

Not sure what meaning of portable he's means. It could be "mmmm Powerbook" or "I'm stuck on a 15 year old worksation. I'd like a Mac, but I can't leave behind my legacy apps". Either way he's right.

In other news, C|Net is forwarding all calls to their "Clue Line" to Kristoff.

Chuckit · Jan 22, 2003, 07:09 PM

Originally posted by int69h:
Not sure what meaning of portable he's means. It could be "mmmm Powerbook" or "I'm stuck on a 15 year old worksation. I'd like a Mac, but I can't leave behind my legacy apps". Either way he's right.

I don't see how. It can't be "an option they wouldn't have had under Unix" since it is Unix.

int69h · Jan 22, 2003, 10:22 PM

I got the impression that the author was referring to UNIX (tm) on workstations like Solaris, AIX, Irix, HP/UX, whatever Digital is calling their OS today, etc., not Unix on personal computers.

Kristoff · Jan 23, 2003, 02:02 PM

Whoever wrote the article obviously doesn't understand that OS X IS UNIX and that X11 is a window server.

I welcome Apple's X11 as a replacement for the abandoned Tenon XTools product that I had been using since OS X public beta.

But, X11 only makes it easier to port applications and to run XDMCP session, etc.

The tool also makes the process of developing a native OS X application faster, while allowing programs to run on a Mac in the meantime.

This is lame. Is X11 a tool?

Also, this doesn't make sense. Don't ALL OS X applications "run on a Mac"?

Also, X11 running on OS X gives Unix users a portable option they might not have with Unix.

Again....WTF??? I don't understand what he is saying. I think he means "porting." Also, OX IS UNIX!

He's obviously a windows user. The article is poorly written and illustrates a lack of understanding.

So, therefore, the author is clueless.

malbicho · Jan 23, 2003, 03:54 PM

We should get used to this kind of crap.
i've been using Unix systems for years now, and in these years i've been told and had to listen piles and piles of things like this article...and i heard them mainly from people being unix sys-admins. This is just sad, but at least i do not expect much from people writing articles

absmiths · Jan 23, 2003, 04:42 PM

Originally posted by int69h:
I got the impression that the author was referring to UNIX (tm) on workstations like Solaris, AIX, Irix, HP/UX, whatever Digital is calling their OS today, etc., not Unix on personal computers.

The point is that X11 IS a solution for UNIX computers - and UNIX people already use it for portability (as well as for just about everything having to do with GUI).

This is not an option UNIX people do not have.

mitchell_pgh · Jan 23, 2003, 04:44 PM

I don't think this was meant for Unix users... more for general information (OK, they don't really know what they are talking about, but they were in the ballpark)

rantweasel · Jan 23, 2003, 05:26 PM

Originally posted by int69h:
Not sure what meaning of portable he's means. It could be "mmmm Powerbook" or "I'm stuck on a 15 year old worksation. I'd like a Mac, but I can't leave behind my legacy apps". Either way he's right.

Have you looked at the nice Sun compatible laptops? They make the tiBooks look lame, and they've been available for years. There are some OSF1/Tru64 laptop options out there as well, IIRC. If they mean powerbook portability, they're wrong. As for legacy apps and macs, one has always had the option of keeping the unix workstation or server, and running an X server on the mac (see Tenon X-tools for an example that's been around for years and years).

As for the tool to make development faster, I'm not sure how and X11 server makes native development faster for OS X, unless they mean porting unix based, X11 apps to OS X, which is already covered...

mathias

int69h · Jan 23, 2003, 09:19 PM

Have you looked at the price tag on those Sun compatible laptops?

Yes they are nice. I've still got a tadpole around here somewhere.

mmurray · Jan 24, 2003, 04:44 AM

Originally posted by rantweasel:

As for the tool to make development faster, I'm not sure how and X11 server makes native development faster for OS X, unless they mean porting unix based, X11 apps to OS X, which is already covered...

mathias

I figure they are talking about things like MatLab.
Ideally you would like an Aqua app but at least now there is a working x11 version on the mac.

Michael

absmiths · Jan 24, 2003, 02:11 PM

Originally posted by mmurray:
I figure they are talking about things like MatLab.
Ideally you would like an Aqua app but at least now there is a working x11 version on the mac.

Michael

While that is true, that is not a new option. The only difference is that the actual app can run on the Mac - but it has always been possible to run connected to any X11 Server (including a Mac).

sambeau · Jan 26, 2003, 08:45 PM

OK so you're clevere than they are. But I recon their online magazine is probably more interesting than one you would write..

Why does Unix enthusiast always seem to == pedant.
Is it that the very nature of a life spent in a command line environment leads to it..?
probably..

sad

gadster · Jan 28, 2003, 04:36 AM

Originally posted by malbicho:
We should get used to this kind of crap.
i've been using Unix systems for years now, and in these years i've been told and had to listen piles and piles of things like this article...and i heard them mainly from people being unix sys-admins. This is just sad, but at least i do not expect much from people writing articles

Now your'e a Mac using Unix person? Woah, prepare to be amazed at the FUD.

DaGuy · 11:26 AM

The article could have been better written. Nevertheless, It all seems pretty harmless given that the correct interpretation can be easily derived.

rantweasel · Jan 29, 2003, 05:10 PM

Originally posted by sambeau:
Why does Unix enthusiast always seem to == pedant.

Actually, if I was a superhero, I'd be Captain Pedantic...

thesearcher · Feb 1, 2003, 08:00 PM

Originally posted by int69h:
... whatever Digital is calling their OS today, ...

'They' call it HP/UX on Itanic. Actually HP probably doesn't, but some do.

int69h · Feb 2, 2003, 07:17 AM

I was actually referring to what was once called OSF/1.

thesearcher · Feb 2, 2003, 11:58 AM

That's what I mean. HP/UX on Itanic is the latest version of 'digital' Unix. OSF/Tru64 etc. are all as dead as OS9, or soon will be.

Gee4orce · Feb 4, 2003, 02:10 AM

Actually, Mac OS X isn't UNIX, it's UNIX-like.

Cat -> Pidgeons

Kristoff · Feb 4, 2003, 02:07 PM

Originally posted by Gee4orce:
Actually, Mac OS X isn't UNIX, it's UNIX-like.

Cat -> Pidgeons

That's like saying BSD and Solaris aren't UNIX

UNIX is as UNIX does.

int69h · Feb 4, 2003, 03:20 PM

That's like saying BSD and Solaris aren't UNIX

Solaris is UNIX, BSD is umm well BSD.

What is UNIX?

absmiths · Feb 5, 2003, 02:00 PM

Originally posted by int69h:
Solaris is UNIX, BSD is umm well BSD.

What is UNIX?

Someone needs to tell Apple all that - their Mac OS X page features phrases like:

Unix based!
state-of-the art BSD UNIX implementation!
The power of UNIX!
With Unix at its core...

Notice the complete absence of the phrase Unix Like.

You want to talk about pedantic, just discuss what unix means with a unix fanatic.

thesearcher · 07:27 PM

As far as the OpenGroup [website] is concerned, Unix and Unix-like are equivalent. As for the Apple references, I've seen M$ refer to it using terms like that too. It could be argued the word has become so commonplace that a challenge wouldn't hold up in court.

int69h · Feb 5, 2003, 03:22 PM

As far as the OpenGroup is concerned, Unix and Unix-like are equivalent.

Do you speak for the OpenGroup, or have any evidence to back that statement up?

Mac OS X doesn't support SVR4 streams, and they are just one of the criteria for obtaining UNIX certification.

It could be argued the word has become so commonplace that a challenge wouldn't hold up in court.

That may very well be, but currently UNIX is still a registered trademark of the OpenGroup.

I refer to FreeBSD, Linux, and Mac OS X as UNIX all of the time because I get tired of adding "like" to my sentence. Is it correct? No.

thesearcher · Feb 5, 2003, 06:59 PM

Originally posted by int69h:
Do you speak for the OpenGroup, or have any evidence to back that statement up?

Neither. But I saw that on one of their pages once, I just can't remember which one.

I refer to FreeBSD, Linux, and Mac OS X as UNIX all of the time because I get tired of adding "like" to my sentence. Is it correct? No.

Agreed. But I'm quite sure they don't like the "like" either.