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Monkeymike · Jan 24, 2003, 02:06 PM

I overheard this guy talking about his Dell laptop. He had recently decided to upgrade windows and went out a bought the upgrade from Office Depot or something. When he finished installing the laptops monitor wouldn't work anymore. He was concerned and called Dell only to find out from them that they install software in their computers that shuts down the monitor drivers if the operating system is upgraded with a copy that is not sold by Dell!!!

Can you believe that people put up with that? Does that sound correct to you guys.

He said that he had to download the new drivers and was still having problems..........

Jerommeke · Jan 24, 2003, 02:49 PM

well I got a struggelt oo. I got a HP notebook, and I just restored it with the restore discs supplied with the machine. After that Windows XP uses the standard driver for my keyboard, but 'strange' signs such as *, @, =, ", etc. aren't on the right place. I have searched everywhere but I see no way of changing it...

milf · Jan 24, 2003, 02:53 PM

I love my Powerbook!

shiff · Jan 24, 2003, 03:09 PM

Sorry to hear about his bad luck, but in my 5 years experience with purchasing many Dell laptop, desktops, and servers; I have never ever had any issue like that. It could be possible that there were driver issues, but that is not Dells fault.

We apple users do not have those problems because our hardware and our software are put together by the same place and are meant to run together.

As with Dell, yes, the machines should still work, but if you buy a machine with Windows2000, and lets say months later, you buy XP to upgrade, there is a possibility that something will not work because of a driver issue. The problem with the monitor going black might not be a video driver issue. There are many things it could be.

dfiler · Jan 24, 2003, 03:29 PM

Originally posted by shiff:
Sorry to hear about his bad luck, but in my 5 years experience with purchasing many Dell laptop, desktops, and servers; I have never ever had any issue like that. It could be possible that there were driver issues, but that is not Dells fault.

Driver issues? Muaaa haaa haaaaa

Sorry I couldn't resist. The whole concept of 'drivers' is bad. While we'll always need hardware support, good hardware/software architectures and APIs would make user-initiated driver installation a thing of the past.

While the MacOS isn't perfect, its almost never neccessary to install drivers for mission critical components like keyboard, mouse, HD, and display. Sure, you may not get all the features without custom drivers, but at least you'll be able to config things.

I remember plugging a voodoo3 into my powercomuting powerbase 180... much to my surprise, it worked even before I installed the drivers. Same thing with my radeon 8500. Same thing with my 3rd party mouse and keyboard and tablet and printer and...

Down with driver installation! (whenever possible)

Things should just work if the plug fits. That's the mac way.
It means that the programmers and engineers have to work twice as hard... but hey, it gives me a line of work.

shiff · Jan 24, 2003, 04:16 PM

Totally Agree with you, but Apple does have drivers.. They are all just bundled in the OS.

mitchell_pgh · Jan 24, 2003, 04:52 PM

Originally posted by shiff:
Totally Agree with you, but Apple does have drivers.. They are all just bundled in the OS.

Also, when you get an upgrade, much of the time it includes new drivers etc.

I hate Windows because if you buy anything 3rd party (and not by a big name) drivers are always a major problem. (I'm talking about the companies that don't make mac versions and only update when it's forced upon them)

Hi I'm Ben · Jan 24, 2003, 05:00 PM

This thread is full of ignorant misconception. I love it.

iNub · Jan 24, 2003, 05:22 PM

Ignorant misconception would be to blame Microsoft for the driver issues, which I haven't read yet.

Ignorant misconception would also be defending Windows on a Mac message board and being surprised when you get flamed.

shiff · Jan 24, 2003, 05:36 PM

No one here is defending Microsoft at all and so far; the only semi flame I have read is the guy who posted about misconceptions. What are the misconceptions. The views posted here are correct and not misconceptions.

dfiler · Jan 24, 2003, 05:39 PM

Originally posted by Hi I'm Ben:
This thread is full of ignorant misconception. I love it.

Misconceptions?
Care to elaborate?

I will make the bold assertion that nobody has posted a misconception in this thread.

dfiler · Jan 24, 2003, 05:41 PM

Originally posted by shiff:
Totally Agree with you, but Apple does have drivers.. They are all just bundled in the OS.

Exactly. I assumed everyone knew that.

ApeInTheShell · Jan 24, 2003, 11:01 PM

i agree. The pc still does not have the bare necessities of plug and play like the macintosh has.
It would be dell's fault if the monitor driver's did not work because as the original poster said that dell installs the software for you.
This is a factory box not a jacked up laptop with all the fancy hello kitty add-on's.

shiff · Jan 24, 2003, 11:07 PM

The original poster said he bought the upgrade from Office Depot or something and that it was not bought from Dell nor did Dell do the upgrade.

That is one reason I like Apple more though..
Things just do work. Not to many discussions like this one about a mac; which was the idea behind what the poster said..

Millennium · Jan 25, 2003, 12:05 AM

Originally posted by shiff:
Totally Agree with you, but Apple does have drivers.. They are all just bundled in the OS.

Some, yes.

The point is that Apple has standardized the hardware/software interfaces to a remarkable degree, just as they have done for user interface. In the past, people who didn't "get" plug-and-play would say that this was a Bad Thing, because third parties couldn't "optimize", but that's not really true. Third parties can do whatever they need to optimize and enhance performance, as long as they include some way for their hardware to work through the standard interfaces as well. There is no tradeoff involved, just good design practices.

What this all means is that most hardware will work, at least minimally, without the need for additional driver software. You might not get things like, say, 3-D acceleration, without a driver. But a video card will display video. A mouse will move the pointer around the screen. Speakers will play sound. And so on, and so forth. That's real plug-and-play at work.

Xeo · Jan 25, 2003, 12:57 AM

Originally posted by Millennium:
You might not get things like, say, 3-D acceleration, without a driver. But a video card will display video.

Exactly. I love how when I bought my new video card, I was looking at the display that IT was producing while I was installing the drivers for it.

Everything should at *least* just work. If it says Mac compatible, than it is Mac compatible. If it says Windows compatible, it might only be Windows compatible once you install the drivers.

Of course, if you buy something that says Windows compatible and it still just works in your Mac, then you're just lucky.

C.J. Moof · Jan 25, 2003, 12:18 PM

Originally posted by Xeo:

Of course, if you buy something that says Windows compatible and it still just works in your Mac, then you're just lucky.

Like the $20 CompUSA combo USB/Firewire card I put in my PM 7500? The card is made to OHCI specs, the computer is running 9.1- it just works.

I spent more time clearing a space to move monitor to so I could open the case than I did getting the card to work.

SMacTech · Jan 25, 2003, 02:22 PM

Originally posted by Monkeymike:
He was concerned and called Dell only to find out from them that they install software in their computers that shuts down the monitor drivers if the operating system is upgraded with a copy that is not sold by Dell!!!

Pure BS here folks. You can install anything you want on a Dell, there is no restrictions. Dell will not support installation from anything but their own restore CDs.
I admin about 60 Dells and never encountered a problem with installing retail OS upgrades or complete reinstallation without Dell's CD installs.

asmujica · Jan 25, 2003, 04:21 PM

I have a dell p600 that I wanted to install xp onto. Dells firmware did not allow you to do that. They blatantly stated that they would not release a new version of the firmware so I could install it on that machine.....

Dell machines are simply pieces of crap meant to take advantage of the ignorant.

Eriamjh · Jan 26, 2003, 08:28 AM

Dell doesn't want you to upgrade your OS, hey want you to buy a new machine.

dfiler · Jan 26, 2003, 10:30 AM

Originally posted by SMacTech:
Pure BS here folks.

Uh, did you just call the original post BS?

Monkeymike only passed on what Dell support claimed was the problem. This seems like a valid gripe even if the info was a miscomunication or a flat out lie by Dell.

Spirit_VW · Jan 26, 2003, 03:49 PM

Originally posted by Millennium:

What this all means is that most hardware will work, at least minimally, without the need for additional driver software. You might not get things like, say, 3-D acceleration, without a driver. But a video card will display video. A mouse will move the pointer around the screen. Speakers will play sound. And so on, and so forth. That's real plug-and-play at work.

Reminds me of the time when I was setting up a PC (a Dell Dimension w/ 300mhz P2), and ran into a problem - the Dell, previously, had been running at 1024x768. It was being hooked up to an older monitor that maxed out at 800x600. When I tried to boot, the screen kept shutting off when Windows (98 in this case) loaded, trying to display at 1024x768. It's been a while, but I'm pretty sure that when Windows loaded, the screen would shut off. To fix this, I had to boot Windows in Safe Mode, go into the registry editor, look for screen resolution setting (since the Properties for the display were only changing what resolution Safe Mode was using), change it to 800x600, and reboot. It finally worked. Maybe there was another way to fix this, and maybe newer versions of Windows don't exhibit this behavior, but good grief it was a PAIN.

Conversely, when I hook my Power Mac up to an 800x600 screen/projector setup at CompUSA when I'm presenting a Mac class, my Mac boots and displays at 800x600, even though I use 1024x768 at home and never touched the screen res setting. When I take it home and plug it back in to my monitor, it goes back to 1024x768. Much, much nicer.

sja777 · Jan 26, 2003, 03:56 PM

Of course, if you purchase a laptop from Apple you can only install system upgrades provided by Apple.

DeathMan · Jan 26, 2003, 06:30 PM

Yeah, except 2 things:

1) you can install debian, or yellow dog linux.

2) Mac users generally like to install a new apple os. Its exciting. Not something we dread. How many people do we know that dread upgrading from win2k to xp? how many dread going from 10.1 to 10.2?

Hi I'm Ben · Jan 26, 2003, 06:48 PM

Originally posted by DeathMan:
Yeah, except 2 things:

1) you can install debian, or yellow dog linux.

2) Mac users generally like to install a new apple os. Its exciting. Not something we dread. How many people do we know that dread upgrading from win2k to xp? how many dread going from 10.1 to 10.2?

win2k and xp are two different things.

apple users are so PC stupid it makes me sick.
Same goes with PC users against mac users though.

If you want to compare.. lots of people were happy when they upgraded from Windows ME to Windows XP.. which would have been the upgrade for 90% of PC owners upgrading to XP from a more recent operating system.

I think most of you need to put "Hi I am PC retarded! I make stupid assumptions based off the one PC I used at work" in your signature.

Moose · Jan 26, 2003, 07:24 PM

Originally posted by iNub:
Ignorant misconception would also be defending Windows on a Mac message board and being surprised when you get flamed.

That's right. I'd forgotten. Once you fire up MacNN Forums, truth goes out the window, and you have to put your Apple Fanboy shirt on.

Originally posted by ApeInTheShell:
i agree. The pc still does not have the bare necessities of plug and play like the macintosh has.

Completely and utterly false. I'm not even going to bother explaining how this hasn't been the case for years. Yes, it used to be asstastic. But it's much, much better now. If you plug new hardware into your computer, which would you rather have happen? A dialog box come up on the screen telling you that new hardware has been found, and then the drivers being installed, or you being prompted to insert the driver installation media? Or just having it silently not work until you install the drivers yourself? Which is more intuitive?

Originally posted by Millennium:
What this all means is that most hardware will work, at least minimally, without the need for additional driver software. You might not get things like, say, 3-D acceleration, without a driver. But a video card will display video. A mouse will move the pointer around the screen. Speakers will play sound. And so on, and so forth. That's real plug-and-play at work.

Windows does this. And has for years. Windows 3.1 did everything except the sound, for chrissakes. Stop acting like this is something novel that only Mac OS does.

Originally posted by Xeo:
Exactly. I love how when I bought my new video card, I was looking at the display that IT was producing while I was installing the drivers for it.

Yes. The operating system was using one of the standard VESA display modes. This happens in Windows, too.

I love my PowerBook G4. I love Mac OS X. Both are fully worth the price I paid for them. But seriously--spreading misinformation is just retarded. You guys appear to have the mental capacity to become fully informed. Why don't you?

Don Pickett · Jan 26, 2003, 07:32 PM

Originally posted by Moose:
asstastic

Great word!

starman · Jan 27, 2003, 06:57 AM

their computers that shuts down the monitor drivers if the operating system is upgraded with a copy that is not sold by Dell!!!

Total horsesh*t.

Mike (Dell owner)

SMacTech · Jan 27, 2003, 07:39 AM

Originally posted by dfiler:
Uh, did you just call the original post BS?

Yes, I did. In all of the Dells I have worked with (about 100 of them) over the last 8 years, there was never a restriction of putting any Windows OS or Linux OS on that was not purchased from Dell.
If some Dell tech support person is saying this to Dell customers, it is pure bull-crap, because it isn't true.

Drizzt · Jan 27, 2003, 08:12 AM

Sorry to burst the bubble.. but there are some thruth AND misconception

Windows has gone miles with plug-and-play (instead of plug-and-pray) with Windows XP. It is quite better.. but you often still need frigging drivers for some hardware!

We had a Intel D845GLAD board here. There was drivers provided for it to make it work under Windows XP (because WindowsXP new nothing about this board). I installed them all.. to see that they didn't work quite well.. when they worked at all! (Sound driver never worked).

I had to download about 40MB of drivers on the 'net to make the frigging AIO motherboard work!

I know that this isn't always the case.. but it still happens too often for me

I like it when I plug a card, plug the peripheral, boot the machine and everything works

Spliffdaddy · Jan 27, 2003, 08:43 AM

Strangely, that Intel motherboard you mention is designed expressly FOR WindowsXP. There's a nice big XP logo right beside the specs.

http://www.intel.com/design/motherbd/ad/

This should have been a simple upgrade.

Drizzt · Jan 27, 2003, 08:45 AM

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
Strangely, that Intel motherboard you mention is designed expressly FOR WindowsXP. There's a nice big XP logo right beside the specs.

http://www.intel.com/design/motherbd/ad/

This should have been a simple upgrade.

I had to install the driver to get the Ethernet card to work.. those on the CD worked (fortunately).

Than I Windows Updated, but there was no drivers on Windows Update for the card

drmcnutt · Jan 27, 2003, 11:03 AM

Originally posted by Drizzt:
Sorry to burst the bubble.. but there are some thruth AND misconception

Windows has gone miles with plug-and-play (instead of plug-and-pray) with Windows XP. It is quite better.. but you often still need frigging drivers for some hardware!....
....
I like it when I plug a card, plug the peripheral, boot the machine and everything works

There is also the misperception that OSX is free of those "troublesome" drivers which isn't the case either. One of the most common questions here regarding performance hits in OSX is if HP printer drivers are installed. Apparently this causes conflicts with OSX and drags down performance (I have no personal experience with this).

Currently I am trying to get a D-link ethernet card (came with PC/Mac drivers) to work with my G4. I used the CD (driver for OS9) and also loaded drivers from the net(OSX version). Installed the drivers and the computer still doesn't communicate with the hardware. A $10 problem of course, but to those who spread the "It just works" rhetoric out there, apparently it doesn't always, just like the other guys.

DRM

starman · Jan 27, 2003, 11:37 AM

How can people think that OS X is driverless? If a video card company decides to create a new type of graphics board, how do you think OS X is going to deal with it without drivers? I write printer driver, and I've dealt with them with OS X. Trust me, drivers HAVE to be written. I think that OS X just hides it better.

Mike

Drizzt · Jan 27, 2003, 11:40 AM

Originally posted by starman:
How can people think that OS X is driverless? If a video card company decides to create a new type of graphics board, how do you think OS X is going to deal with it without drivers? I write printer driver, and I've dealt with them with OS X. Trust me, drivers HAVE to be written. I think that OS X just hides it better.

Mike

They still are less of a problem than those with Windows.. I think anyone would agree here..

Spliffdaddy · Jan 27, 2003, 11:45 AM

Originally posted by Drizzt:
They still are less of a problem than those with Windows.. I think anyone would agree here..

Well, Windows users don't have to download 14.5MB of updated driver files along with a .5MB "iTunes update" - and hope one of them supports their portable audio device.

Drizzt · Jan 27, 2003, 12:15 PM

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
Well, Windows users don't have to download 14.5MB of updated driver files along with a .5MB "iTunes update" - and hope one of them supports their portable audio device.

No, but they have to download 40MB of drivers for Ethernet, Audio and Video along with 120MB of updates for a OS that the installer is 40MB (talking about Win98).

starman · Jan 27, 2003, 01:08 PM

Originally posted by Drizzt:
No, but they have to download 40MB of drivers for Ethernet, Audio and Video along with 120MB of updates for a OS that the installer is 40MB (talking about Win98).

Lies.

40MB of drivers for Ethernet? Try 300k.

Mike

Drizzt · Jan 27, 2003, 01:11 PM

Originally posted by starman:
Lies.

40MB of drivers for Ethernet? Try 300k.

Mike

Go have a look on Intel's or Compaq's web site, add up the Video, Audio and Ethernet drivers.. and come back after.

Usually it's 300k, not with Intel/Compaq (and probably others)

starman · Jan 27, 2003, 01:19 PM

Originally posted by Drizzt:
Go have a look on Intel's or Compaq's web site, add up the Video, Audio and Ethernet drivers.. and come back after.

Usually it's 300k, not with Intel/Compaq (and probably others)

You said "Ethernet", not "Ethernet, Video, Audio".

Any why would you be downloading video drivers for Intel? You download video drivers from the make of your video board. MY Intel mobo doesn't have built-in video, I'm using an ATI board. Either way, it still doesn't add up to 40MB.

300k Ethernet
600k Video
40k monitor
1.8 MB Audio

Either way, I'm running an Intel mobo at work right now. Sorry, but the installer FLOPPIES that came with the system have everything the Win98 CDs don't. I know this for a FACT because I build up/break down test machines on a regular basis.

40MB my ass.

Mike

Drizzt · Jan 27, 2003, 01:37 PM

Originally posted by starman:
You said "Ethernet", not "Ethernet, Video, Audio".

Any why would you be downloading video drivers for Intel? You download video drivers from the make of your video board. MY Intel mobo doesn't have built-in video, I'm using an ATI board. Either way, it still doesn't add up to 40MB.

300k Ethernet
600k Video
40k monitor
1.8 MB Audio

Either way, I'm running an Intel mobo at work right now. Sorry, but the installer FLOPPIES that came with the system have everything the Win98 CDs don't. I know this for a FACT because I build up/break down test machines on a regular basis.

40MB my ass.

Mike

I had to download about 40MB of drivers on the 'net to make the frigging AIO motherboard work!

This it what I said.. where do you see 40MB for Ethernet Only?

Look.. I've been a computer technician for 4 or 5 years and I've seen hundreds of machines.. and I remmember than I had to put a ethernet driver on 11 floppies because there was nothing else on the frigging compaq website.

Do your homeworks and comeback after. Go have a look for the Intel D845GLAD Mobo drivers and come back... you'll see it's quite more than 1 MB

starman · 02:36 PM

Originally posted by Drizzt:
This it what I said.. where do you see 40MB for Ethernet Only?

Look.. I've been a computer technician for 4 or 5 years and I've seen hundreds of machines.. and I remmember than I had to put a ethernet driver on 11 floppies because there was nothing else on the frigging compaq website.

Do your homeworks and comeback after. Go have a look for the Intel D845GLAD Mobo drivers and come back... you'll see it's quite more than 1 MB

Oh, now you're adding mobo drivers to the mix.

Damn, how about adding keyboard, mouse, processor, hard drive, floppy drive, CD-ROM, and the operating system itself while you're adding things to every post.

I have two Intel 845's here now. The drivers for the mobos are on the CD and they're WELL below 40MB. However, I don't have to use them since the 9x/NT/2K/XP installers see the mobo just fine. Who's downloading drivers for these???

I've been doing computer work for almost 20 years. I build up and break down machines all the time. I have drawers full of driver floppies and burned CDs. If you need to make 11 floppies for an Ethernet driver, then the installer obviously had more than one model on it. EDIT: Or, the driver came with tech support apps, but how large was the driver ITSELF? No Ethernet driver should be 12MB!

I don't have to do my homework. This is what I do.

Mike

malbicho · Jan 27, 2003, 02:25 PM

Originally posted by dfiler:
Driver issues? Muaaa haaa haaaaa

Sorry I couldn't resist. The whole concept of 'drivers' is bad. While we'll always need hardware support, good hardware/software architectures and APIs would make user-initiated driver installation a thing of the past.

While the MacOS isn't perfect, its almost never neccessary to install drivers for mission critical components like keyboard, mouse, HD, and display. Sure, you may not get all the features without custom drivers, but at least you'll be able to config things.

I remember plugging a voodoo3 into my powercomuting powerbase 180... much to my surprise, it worked even before I installed the drivers. Same thing with my radeon 8500. Same thing with my 3rd party mouse and keyboard and tablet and printer and...

Down with driver installation! (whenever possible)
Things should just work if the plug fits. That's the mac way.
It means that the programmers and engineers have to work twice as hard... but hey, it gives me a line of work.

Well, there was a guy talking about misconception, maybe i can understand why.
Maybe people should be aware of how an operating system works. The fact that the standard kernel includes a genric support for frame buffer devices DOES NOT mean it does not need drivers.
Drivers are essentially modules used by the kernel as a software interface with the hardware (roughly). Every system has a genric support for frame buffer devices, ps2 or usb keybords etc. etc.

I think that people too often misunderstand this generic support with "no need for drivers". this is a total misconception.

Drizzt · Jan 27, 2003, 02:41 PM

Originally posted by starman:
Oh, now you're adding mobo drivers to the mix.

Damn, how about adding keyboard, mouse, processor, hard drive, floppy drive, CD-ROM, and the operating system itself while you're adding things to every post.

I have two Intel 845's here now. The drivers for the mobos are on the CD and they're WELL below 40MB. However, I don't have to use them since the 9x/NT/2K/XP installers see the mobo just fine. Who's downloading drivers for these???

I've been doing computer work for almost 20 years. I build up and break down machines all the time. I have drawers full of driver floppies and burned CDs. If you need to make 11 floppies for an Ethernet driver, then the installer obviously had more than one model on it. EDIT: Or, the driver came with tech support apps, but how large was the driver ITSELF? No Ethernet driver should be 12MB!

I don't have to do my homework. This is what I do.

Mike

Like I said.. like I quoted.. I was talking about a AIO Board..

I never ever saw a Ethernet Card that could do audio, video, hold a CPu and memory.. AIO Board = All In One Board = the ****ing motherboard!

****.. have a look at Intel's web site! The video driver is more than 6MB itself!

Yes, drivers are usually small.. but it's not always true.. stop arguing if you don't want to take a look.. or else shut the hell up

Fuzzle · Jan 27, 2003, 03:33 PM

This thread is crap.

Yes, both OS's do have drivers.
Yes, there are devices that aren't supported by both OS's.
Yes, both OS's have standard Hardware API's.

This is a very misinformed thread.

Hi I'm Ben · Jan 27, 2003, 05:09 PM

Hi my Mac is pretty. It never crashes because Macs don't crash. My friend Bill has a PC, it's slow. PCs suck because Bills PC is slow. So is the one at the library, I get on that and it won't let me do anything. My mac is awesome. It plays Mp3s. I can also put a picture in my desktop. My friend erik can't even figure out how to do either one of those on his PC because they don't work good and when he plugged in his mouse his WHOLE computer crashed because it was a Kensington Mouse and not a Micro$oft mouse and only MS mice work right with windows. When i plugged my new mouse into my mac it programmed all 5 buttons to the settings I wanted to without me even installing the drivers. It's very intuitive. Mac is Best.

dfiler · 06:31 PM

Originally posted by malbicho:
Well, there was a guy talking about misconception, maybe i can understand why.
Maybe people should be aware of how an operating system works. The fact that the standard kernel includes a genric support for frame buffer devices DOES NOT mean it does not need drivers.
Drivers are essentially modules used by the kernel as a software interface with the hardware (roughly). Every system has a genric support for frame buffer devices, ps2 or usb keybords etc. etc.

I think that people too often misunderstand this generic support with "no need for drivers". this is a total misconception.

Go back and read my post carefully. You will then see that I understand completely. I have more than one degree in CS and write software for a living. I also build and maintain redhat servers with months of uptime for scores of users. So nyeah

I think you'll find that most MacNNers have a good grasp on the concept of 'drivers'. We're just demanding true plug-n-play. A well architected peripheral API would ensure basic functionality of upgrades and peripherals with no additional software.

I've never installed the drivers for my 3rd party mouse yet all 5 buttons and the scroll wheel just work. This is what we're talking about. I didn't have to install a driver just like I didn't have to install a task scheduler.

Eventually, there will be no need for users to have even heard of a 'driver'. Technologies like ZeroConfig and hot-plugable, self-negotiating hardware will mean that if the plug fits, it will work. (or you're within wireless range) I think my home theater is getting lonely in the next room. Maybe it just needs an airport card and rendevous to become truley sentient?

starman · Jan 27, 2003, 09:46 PM

I think you'll find that most MacNNers have a good grasp on the concept of 'drivers'. We're just demanding true plug-n-play. A well architected peripheral API would ensure basic functionality of upgrades and peripherals with no additional software.

You are talking about boards made for that specific platform, I assume. The endian problem always gets in the way.

MIke

mikemako · Jan 27, 2003, 10:29 PM

i would just like to say Thank You. this thread is hilarious.

Keep It Up.

Jasoco · Jan 28, 2003, 11:38 AM

I love OS X. Aside from the Intellimouse drivers I haven't had to install any other drivers for anything I have bought.

My Digital camera worked right away.

My LaCie FireWire HD worked right away.

My Imation SuperDisk worked right away.

My Cable Modem even works without drivers!

The Mouse works without drivers. It just doesn't have the extra functions.

My LinkSys Wireless Access Point Router works without drivers.

All the stuff I have already had the drivers included! I didn't have to insert a single CD or download a single file to get any of it to work. THAT is why I love OS X.