[jeronimo]

I use the Scrapbook funcion on MS Internet Explorer 5.2 a lot, and I couldn't find a similar function on Safari... did I miss something or did Apple miss something?

[gorickey]

Originally posted by jeronimo:
I use the Scrapbook funcion on MS Internet Explorer 5.2 a lot, and I couldn't find a similar function on Safari... did I miss something or did Apple miss something?

My god, I've been saying this for months now! It's something ALL the browsers are missing and need to implement and expand on (you just can't copy IE's program)...it sure is handy though, I've missed it dearly since using Chimera default.

[ApeInTheShell]

Huh,

it's possible but i think they want this browser to be simple. Extra features might bloat it like omni web, netscape, and internet explorer.

If they do implement a form of scrapbook there should be a valid reason why they did it.

Afterall, if they left out bookmarks in favor of some of IE features there would be alot of angry mac users.

[voodoo]

What is this "scrapbook" feature so often named? I have never used such a thing in IE, no wonder since I don't even know what it is or what it does.

[LeeG]

Scrapbook is one KILLER feature of IE, its a "snapshot" feature where it saves a copy of the HTML rendered page in an easy to access list - kinda like a bookmark but its the page you are looking at actually, not a hyperlink - great for online receipts.

Lee

[gorickey]

Scrapbook kicks ass!!

Here is the description taken from Mactopia.com:

Internet Scrapbook

With the Internet Scrapbook feature, users will no longer need to print a copy of a Web page when they aren't sure it will still be there the next time they want to refer to it. Because online links are often discontinued and online information is frequently updated, users are typically instructed to print out important tracking information such as receipts and articles. At a time when e-commerce and online research are becoming ubiquitous, it is ironic that users have been relying on hard copies of Web pages. Internet Explorer 5's new Internet Scrapbook makes it easy to capture a complete Web page and store it for future reference.

[Terri]

Originally posted by voodoo:
What is this "scrapbook" feature so often named? I have never used such a thing in IE, no wonder since I don't even know what it is or what it does.

In IE under the view menu turn in "Explorer Bar."

Now you have a very nice toolbar on the left side of the window that has a scrapbook in it and other things as well. I personally use the Favorites part of it all the time. You can drag a URL from the address field over the Favorites and it then opens up and you can drop the URL in the bookmark folder of your choice. Once you let go it collapses again.

I really want to see something like this in Safari, but not as bad as I want to see IE type autofill for forms.

[voodoo]

Hey! Sounds neat, I didn't know that. Sure, it would be nice to see in Safari.

[Big Mac]

Yeah, scrapbook is one great feature. It's much better than saving web archives with Save, since access to the feature is much quicker. None of the other browsers seem to have caught on to this MS innovation(!) -- see, it's not always an oxy moron.

[Miniryu]

Originally posted by Big Mac:
Yeah, scrapbook is one great feature. It's much better than saving web archives with Save, since access to the feature is much quicker. None of the other browsers seem to have caught on to this MS innovation(!) -- see, it's not always an oxy moron.

Somehow I get the impression that I am the only one who does this little trick: command-p to print the page, and then instead of hitting the "print" button, click the one that says "save to PDF..." This will save the exact image that would have been printed to a PDF file. I find this to be more convenient than the Scrapbook because #1: the PDFs are easily stored online or burned to a disk. They can later be retrieved and printed from even a Windows or linux machine. #2: You don't need to use IE in order to view the saved page or recipt. I don't know about you, but I avoid relying on MS products as often as possible.

[Simon Mundy]

I hear you, Miniryu, but it's why thousands (tens of thousands?) of users use iPhoto, iTunes and iCal - it's much easier and more convenient to use software that's geared toward automating a task.

I'm a big fan of Scrapbook, too, but the one thing I found was that it was a big PITA to transfer it across from one Mac OS X install to another (if I was doing a clean install, for example, and wanted to preserve my old Explorer settings).

I would much prefer Safari to allow this feature, but to save it wherever I liked and a simple double-click would open the archived bundle in Safari and show me the page as it was captured, rather than it being stored within a proprietary XML file like it is presently in Internet Explorer.

It needn't be a 'bloat' feature - quite the opposite, It's actually a bit of a killer feature, I would say. If Apple could work out a way that stores these files in an open-source kind of way, then that would be extra nifty.

[AKcrab]

Originally posted by Simon Mundy:
It needn't be a 'bloat' feature - quite the opposite, It's actually a bit of a killer feature, I would say. If Apple could work out a way that stores these files in an open-source kind of way, then that would be extra nifty.

I don't know... Sounds like a second cache, with all the issues associated with a cache.

[LeeG]

Yeah, print-to-PDF is a nice idea, but honestly, M$'s implementation of this is VERY nice, its easy to access the stored pages with one-click on the scrapbook tab, and you can rename/organize them like bookmarks.

Since the move to safari I have been saving my e-receipts as PDFs in a folder, but I would welcome scrapbook in safari, if it could be implemented with the pages saved as PDFs (thus platform independent/easily transportable) even better...I hope apple's listening -

PDF-based Scrapbook!!


Lee

[TC]

The thing is that it isn't just a screenshot, it still has all the live html elements so you can click on links in your snapshot. You also still have access to the source code and images.

As a web designer I use snapshot all the time to save away designs of websites which I like. That way I can see a design even if the site changes it at a later date.

The print/save as pdf is just not as convenient as being able to hit one button and it does it for you.

For the guy who thinks they are a pain to move a round, they are all saved in ~/Library/Preferences/Explorer/Internet Scrapbook. You can double click on them to open them in Explorer. There was an app on classic which would convert them to .zip files containing all the images inside.

Maybe Apple could use packages for these so you can access the contents if you need to?

[LeeG]

Yeah, I forgot the 'useability' of an html rendered page versus a PDF- you are correct! Another nice feature of scrapbook. If apple implemented this (and made it REALLY easy like the bookmarks implement) and AUTOFILL! I would be in HEAVEN.

Granted, this is all from someone who used chimera for the first time this week and I am slowly getting hooked - It definitely feels faster than safari - purely subjective though -- web pages seem to just "pop up" fully rendered - nice. safari has a habit of building the page in front of you - either way, whatever, it all boils down to faster, slick looking web browsers in OSX - choice is a great thing!

Lee

[jeronimo]

Do you guys really use the AutoFill????
Huh!!!

[Sven G]

I too love the IE scrapbook - very practical and intuitive at the same time!

... But rather than make it a Safari-only feature, it would be much better (and "revolutionary"!), IMO, if Apple made it a system-wide feature - à la Address Book, - and thus available from within any appropriate application and/or component: just imagine being able to take "snapshots" of any (for example - in addition to web sites, online PDFs, etc., - even email/fax messages!) document and save them in a central, standardised and easily accessible (for example, in ~/Documents/Snapshots) location...

[Peter]

Originally posted by jeronimo:
Do you guys really use the AutoFill????
Huh!!!

yes of couse ... every form click autofill done Not so fussed about scrapbook but I would like a more customizable toolbar

[Terri]

Originally posted by jeronimo:
Do you guys really use the AutoFill????
Huh!!!

Every day of the week many times a day.

Part of what I do for a living involves filling out web forms all day long.

Netscape has autofill as well, but IE does it the way that I need.

But the one thing that Netscape does that IE doesn't is auto fill the user ID/Password fileds for sites that use something besides htaccess to control access and also can remember mutiple user ID/Passwords for sites that do use htacess to control accesss.

[Judge_Fire]

Originally posted by Sven G:
IMO, if Apple made it a system-wide feature - à la Address Book, - and thus available from within any appropriate application and/or component

My thoughts exactly,

those of us who lived in the OS pre-X days might recall how the litl' scrapbook app could store pics, sounds, video and even QD3D models.

Unfortunately, the litl' app wasn't very well connected. Address Book kinda paves the way for central storage facilities, Scrapbook could extend on this idea.

OS 9 may be dead, but pieces of it might, in the dark of night, crawl back...

J

[LeeG]

OOhhh, very interesting. The old school scrapbook "hello" is notoriously absent from OS X - perhaps it was yet another apple idea WAY ahead of its time. Sure those days you could store text, graphics, sounds, and (I think it included quicktime) movies, but it was a SEPRATE APP that had to be used by itself. In other words, it was not connected to the other paint/music/movie apps. And the sounds, pictures, and movies we had then sucked.

Now we have great music, video, and digital photography to arrange, and to USE.

In a way, iLife is like a digital scrapbook. Because our new found digital music/video stuff rocks so hard, we have MUCH MORE OF IT, and we need separate scrapbooks for each genre of file.

But these scrapbooks are becoming interoperable, feeding off each others strengths.

Next up, I think the larger picture needs to be addressed with regard to digital hub, and the digital scrapbook apps. The next frontier for digital hub is without question the consumer local area network. People who live in a digitally connected HOME should have several (>1) computers to "share" stuff between. The feeling that one is 'on the local net' and not just on their own terminal is one where apple can clearly shine. Rendezvous IS part of the KEY. Apple can make their digital hub apps act in a networked fashion without the user having to configure local area networking. It Just Works (TM) So you open itunes, and you see your sister just added a new CD (...which she bought legally to support the benevolent record companies... ) and there it is. You didn't have to "connect" to any network, or "log in" or "set up sharing" You just have network media aware apps that just do it. Thats what people want - ease of use (no brainer) software that's intuitive, creative, and solves problems you didn't know you'd ever have, so your work just looks better, and is done sooner. Media throughout the home - welcome to your digital life. Now Jobs just has to make the coolest computer -- television hardware/software bridge that has ever existed, and truly realize accessability of digital media. I already listen to MP3's off of my stereo system via iPod, Not far off from that - streaming DiVX to your TV/Stereo in 5.1 surround. Add EyeTV technology, and now not only does mac stream to tv, tv streams to mac, and interacts with all of your other media.

iCal may suck now, but it could easily be the part of a bigger picture, with plans to mature the program significantly, and further integrate with address book, and iApps. Forming a kind of "household schedule". Maybe a kids version of a program to access the calendar too, apple needs to make some kick ass kids software, in house. iLearn?

Well, at least thats how I see it. We'll see how it all pans out...


Lee


PS- Autofill ROCKS.

[dfiler]

Scrapbook? What a horrible idea! No seriously...

Scrapbook is an ugly hack and substitute for a feature that every other program on the face of the planet implements correctly. Brace yourselves... its called 'Save'. That's right, all we need is a non-broken 'save' feature. It should be accessible through, you guessed it, the file menu.

Bookmarks are quite appropriately named, as is the save feature. When you bookmark something, you are just marking its location. However, 'save' is just that, saving an object for future use. These two features cover the both types of functionality, being able to return to a page on the webserver by reaching for the page's bookmark. Or, previously saved documents can be viewed, with their contents exactly the same as when they were saved.

Scrapbook = bad
Save or Bookmark = good

[kcmac]

Thanks dfiler. I never tried that before.

[dfiler]

Originally posted by kcmac:
Thanks dfiler. I never tried that before.

Heheh. Thanks, but I didn't suggest anything to try.

I just pointed out that IE's Scrapbook feature was only neccessary because 'Save' was broken.

[LeeG]

dfiler-

Call it whatever you want, if its simply 'save', then I want a save to drawer feature, so I click a tab, and all web pages I have saved appear, organized like bookmarks with one click to view them. I do not want File>Open>navigate to saved file or <switch to finder and double click>. A convenient way of saving web pages and accessing them easily from within the app is all I want from a well implemented web-scrapbook.

Lee

[dfiler]

Originally posted by LeeG:
dfiler-

Call it whatever you want, if its simply 'save', then I want a save to drawer feature, so I click a tab, and all web pages I have saved appear, organized like bookmarks with one click to view them. I do not want File>Open>navigate to saved file or <switch to finder and double click>. A convenient way of saving web pages and accessing them easily from within the app is all I want from a well implemented web-scrapbook.

Lee

That's one way to manage documents. Keep in mind that this advocates replacing the filesystem and our File, Open, Close, Save, Save-As metaphor.

Specialized file management, especially of documents, is a very mature interface design topic. It has been studied and toyed with for decades. I would agree that a supplemenetery ways to access recent files is convenient when handled at the application level. However, obscuring the well-thought-out file metaphor would be bad.

Users would have a much harder time if every app required learning a new way to manage and store their data. The file system and files/folders/desktop metaphor provides us with a unified way to handle user data. By forcing users to choose a save location, they have a good grasp on where and how the data is stored. It is stored in a manner similar to every single other program. It can be recalled in the same method used by all other programs. They can send the file via email because they actually know where it is stored.

iTunes is a very notable exception. It is one of the first document based apps from apple having a custom file management system, abstracting users from where and how the data is stored. However, the files are still represented as objects inside the iTunes window. You can manipulate the files as if you were in the finder.

Much thought has been put into the types of apps which should try to hide file location and management from the user. While it is easy to express what I would personally prefer. I wouldn't advocate the replacement of File->Open,Close,Save without thourough justification.

For the drawer idea that you suggest, here's a close alternative that doesn't break current interaction techniques. Chose Open from the file menu or hit command-O. This brings up a sheet showing the default save folder. A 'Web Pages' folder in Documents would be an excellent folder to be created by default. Thus, by invoking the 'Open' command, users are given a list of all files in their 'Web Pages' folder. Saved web pages would default to this location. Users wouldn't have to learn a new storage paradigm in order to work with web pages. They could treat them like any other document. If a drawer were truly a good idea for document management, than it should be included in all document based applications.