[dissident]

I've tried to adapt, but after all this time I must still say it stinks!
The more stuff you have in it, the longer it takes to find what your looking for, and with the icons moving around while you open and close apps, things don't get better. One of the worst things about it is that when you don't have it hidden apps don't know it's there and when you have auto-hide on it pops upp when you're about to scroll a bar och click a button close to the edge (when you have it on the right or left of the screen). Having a lot of folders in the dock is almost useless, since you dont see the names. minimized windows are also useless since you cant see the content with the tiny snap shot. The bouncing is awful. I say kill the dock and do something innovative with the top menu bar instead or something. I hate windows but the windows xp bar is far better than the dock!

[Emotionally Fragile Luke]

I love it. I think it is the best thing about OSX.

Try using the windows toolbar for a while, then bîtch.

[MrNo]

Did u just switch from windows? Dock is great much better then WinXP toolbar

[Nonsuch]

Ah, the Wayback Machine has struck again ...

[Pepi Picklefoot]

Whoa...the Dock is not the best idea in the world but it's 100x better than the Windows XP bar.

Stop trolling.

The task bar has 1 flaw and that overshadows any of its benefits. And here it is:

The Windows Taskbar tries to do waaaaay too much (so does the Dock but I'll get back to this after my rant). It's got the Start menu which is supposed to be the end-all navigation tool...and sucks at it! It docks every possible frickin' window you've got open which forces people keep a small amount of windows open or suffer the wrath of a convoluted Taskbar. It houses favorite apps (like the OS X Dock) and it handles what is commonly known as control strip modules or docklings or menulings to OS X users.

How can they cram all of this in one little bar? I dunno, but it sure does suck!

Now for the Dock...

Problem number 1) It also tries to do too much...but way less than the Windows Taskbar.

2) People misuse it. The Dock isn't a place to put *all* your apps. It's a place to put your favorite apps...preferably those that have dynamic dock icon badges (Mail) and dock menus (iTunes).

Remedy to 1) Apple has got to drop this minimize-to-dock nonsense. Get rid of that completely. Minimizing windows to the Dock shifts icons way too often and recuces the Dock size when it's full from one edge of the screen to the other.

Minimize-in-place was a way better idea. It had some problems but it was still better than minimizing to the Dock.

Remedy to 2) People have to wisen up. You can do whatever you want with the Dock. You can even *gasp* not use it if you really don't like it (with some hacks or workarounds).

The Dock should only be a place to store favorite apps a place to display launched apps. Nothing more. I don't know what this minimizing window business came from but I think it came from Jobs' lust for the genie effect.

The fun is over Stevie...you can lose the minimize-to-dock feature.

With a name like dissident and a first post troll, I doubt you're actually interested in hearing our responses and I doubt you're even coming back...thank god.

[spiznet]

What about one dock only for Apps, another Dock (on another wall) for minimized windows?)

[malvolio]

I propose a new forum rule - before you can post a rant about some topic such as the Dock, you have to prove that you actually know how to use it.

[unfaded]

*yawn* Another "the dock sucks" thread? Thanks for your input, now go away.

[Gatorzx2]

Honestly, the dock is really great.

Thats my opinion....

[SirCastor]

I find the most productive thing which made the Dock experience greatly better, (and I have yet to understand why Apple hasn't made this an option yet) is to anchor the dock to the left hand side of the screen. This way, regardless of whatever you open, your standard Dock stuff stays in precisely the place where it belongs. The only thing that moves that is standard is the trash can. since documents are dynamic, and opening new applications is dynamic, only new items are added to the right side of the dock. it only grows one direction, and the standard icons you have placed in there retain their original position.

[xtal]

Interesting first post, dissident.

No one says you have to use the dock. Just put all your programs in TigerLaunch and switch around using CMD-tab or something...

[IUJHJSDHE]

I don't keep the dock on autohide, and I have it on the left of the screen not the bottem. I like it a lot

[freak_in_pekin]

Originally posted by Pepi Picklefoot:
Minimize-in-place was a way better idea. It had some problems but it was still better than minimizing to the Dock.

I agree with this. There are hacks to use minimize-in-place in Jaguar and while they're not perfect they're a lot better than minimize-to-dock...and a ton better than Windows' taskbar.

[TC]

Kelly is that you?

Dock doesn't suck but it isn't perfect, for starters the folders should be spring loaded.

What I would really like to see is more options for customising it.
I would love it if we could have multiple docks one for each side and one at the bottom and we can choose what goes in there. Allow us to see the open windows in the dock as well, not just the minimized windows.

I would set up a dock at the bottom with Applications, one on the right with folders and one on the left with windows of the current app + minimized windows.

Yes this would take up lots of space if you don't use the dock minimized but you can always customize to suit your taste.

[dissident]

Originally posted by malvolio:
I propose a new forum rule - before you can post a rant about some topic such as the Dock, you have to prove that you actually know how to use it.

Explain.

[khufuu]

As with most things, both the task bar and the dock suffer from the 'too much of a good thing' problem.

People keep trying to cram EVERYTHING onto the dock. I admit that I suffer from this a wee bit myself.

So...that being said, if you don't put ALL of your apps in the dock how do you launch them? You put in an Apps folder onto your dock. You then zoom through this folder (and any sub-folders) to find your app. Sounds amazingly like the 'Start' button in windows to me.

Either way has it's benefits and it's detractions. If you don't like them, find 3rd party utilities to do things the way you like them.

[dissident]

Originally posted by Pepi Picklefoot:
Remedy to 2) People have to wisen up. You can do whatever you want with the Dock. You can even *gasp* not use it if you really don't like it (with some hacks or workarounds).

I've hardly ever used the xp toolbar, just wanted to get som quick strong reactions. geez...don't get so offended!

I don't think you should have to use hacks or workarounds to make a central finder feature not being in the way.

[::maroma::]

Originally posted by malvolio:
I propose a new forum rule - before you can post a rant about some topic such as the Dock, you have to prove that you actually know how to use it.

Or how about a rule that says, "If you have nothing to say that is of a constructive nature, then save it for some other board."

Why is it that every kid who has a personaly problem with something (the Dock for instance) feels the overwhelming urge to post their rants here? Can someone tell me what good it does ANYONE to post things like "I hate the dock! It sucks. The end." What can anyone else say but "Yah! Me too!" or "I disagree, I like it!"? Nothing of substance. No constructive criticism. Nothing. Just a bunch of useless banter about what you like and what you don't. It clogs up the forums with pointless threads.

What good will it do you to tell everyone that you hate the Dock? What good will it do anyone else? Do you think that someone's going to say "Hey! You're right! I've never noticed it before, but the Dock DOES suck! Thank you so much for opening my eyes!!"?

Personally, I don't give a sh!t what other people's tastes are. If you have a legitimate question or criticism (CONSTRUCTIVE criticism) of something, then by all means post away. But if it's just to say "I hate <insert product or feature here>!!!!" then what is the use?

[rambo47]

There's a thread over at Ars Technica about desktop pictures. Take a look at how many of the WinXP users are employing an OS X Dock hack. Even the Wintel crowd loves it!

[mitchell_pgh]

For the most part, everything that I need to launch every day (or even every other day) is in the dock (25 apps + apps, documents and pictures folder)

I think my dock is rather full, but I like it the way it is. I know what everything is, and how it works.

You need to prioratize your dock... not just dump everything into it.

P.S. When I want something that isn't in the doc, I just click on the apps folder and select the application...

[Terri]

For me the Dock needs a few things.

I need to be able to split the Dock up into 3 parts in 3 different places on my screens, apps, windows, folders and documents.

I'm using Windowshade, ASM and Fruit menu so right now about the only thing I'm using it for is a floating app switcher/launcher, just like the tear off one from 9.

The one thing that really bugs me right now is I can't position it on the left side of my right monitor. We should be able to drag it anyplace that we want.

[KidRed]

The dock could be much better.
Contexual menu additions-

*hide app
*show app
*hide others
*show all
*get info
(maybe even show cpu %)

and contextual menu folder browsing needs to speed up a lot more to make that a useful way to navigate.

Windowshade needs to be native, as I'd rather not run haxies. I couldn't live without ASM, but the above additions to the dock would make it easier to do.

[malvolio]

Originally posted by dissident:
Explain.

Two things that imediately come to mind:
- you can turn off Dock icon bouncing in the Dock prefs;
-each Dock icon's contextual menu gives you easy access to all your open windows.

[Gul Banana]

Originally posted by dissident:
I've hardly ever used the xp toolbar, just wanted to get som quick strong reactions.

I think that says it all. No point in responding to a troll, whether they realise they're trolling or not.

[iamnid]

Nobody is forcing you to put all of your crap in the dock. You can always put shortcuts on the desktop and use the finder to navigate to launch your programs... the way we used to do it in OS 9.

[sushiism]

coming from windows (8 years) and working in macos9 in the design labs i find i work best with the dock.
" 2) People misuse it. The Dock isn't a place to put *all* your apps. It's a place to put your favorite apps...preferably those that have dynamic dock icon badges (Mail) and dock menus (iTunes)."
very true sire, i keep trying to tell people this but they just shove everything there ¬_¬ christ thats just quite quite crazy, i mean i have:
mail,ichat,itunes,system pref down there and thats it, then a little icon with my about 8 most used apps. i dont want things like photoshop down there that i'll accidenly press and have to force quit. the dock is wonderful and the windows taskbar is a complete joke i mean once you get like 30 windows up then windows/quicklaunch icons become the same really O_O plus it shows all windows at once, very dumb, should jsut have running apps like osx which is godlike in comparrison

[OwlBoy]

I find myself trying to use it on OS 9 machines.

I love it.

-Owl

[tikki]

Dock + Minimize In Place + Launchbar.

The dock as an end all solution for organization is flawed, but just keeping my consistently used apps in it (ie. Web, Mail, AIM, Word) and using Launchar to launch programs not used nearly as much works wonders. Also, using Minimize In Place to mininimize my applications rather than sending them to the dock rocks.

[midwinter]

Originally posted by dissident:
The more stuff you have in it, the longer it takes to find what your looking for,

The obvious solution here is not to put so much stuff in it, but you're right. There should be a way to group apps in the dock so that they can be launched via a contextual menu. You might try using some of the dock dividers floating around (anyone want to post a link and instructions for how to install them? They help me keep my apps grouped.

and with the icons moving around while you open and close apps, things don't get better.

Simple solution: either turn off the magnification or make it so that you only get a slight movement in response to a mouseover. I keep magnification turned off. I realize that you've probably done this because you have a lot of apps in there, but if you thin it out a little (and perhaps supplement with some aliases on the desktop), you'll have less trouble out of it.

One of the worst things about it is that when you don't have it hidden apps don't know it's there

That's a problem with the app, not with the dock. But you're right. It is annoying.

and when you have auto-hide on it pops upp when you're about to scroll a bar och click a button close to the edge (when you have it on the right or left of the screen).

The auto-hide feature of the dock could use some more rethinking because of this. I'd like to see a preferences for always hide and auto-hide. Simple solution: don't auto-hide it. This is not to say that it ought not be re-thought, though.

Having a lot of folders in the dock is almost useless, since you dont see the names.

If possible, use nested folders in the dock. At the moment, I only have two folders in my dock (documents and one other), but each of them contains dozens of other folders, and it's very easy for me to navigate to what I'm looking for.

minimized windows are also useless since you cant see the content with the tiny snap shot.

Command+H will hide the frontmost app. Just click on the dock icon to un-hide it. I use it rather than minimize. You can also use unsanity's windowshade to bring back the older OS 9 functionality. I have a hard time imagining out this function could be improved without making it more complex.

The bouncing is awful.

Yes. Yes, it is. There should be far more preferences to control this. At the very least, we should have the option of simply changing the color of the black triangle, or of halo-ing the icon itself.

I say kill the dock and do something innovative with the top menu bar instead or something. I hate windows but the windows xp bar is far better than the dock!

I disagree. A button labeled "start" that you have to click to turn off the computer, and which contains loads and loads of hierarchical menus, is in no way superior to a very clear visual representation of your applications.

Cheers
Scott

[skyman]

Originally posted by malvolio:
I propose a new forum rule - before you can post a rant about some topic such as the Dock, you have to prove that you actually know how to use it.

Now that was funny!

p.s. I agree!

[milhous]

I've taken some of your advice and cleaned out my dock. And I've gotta say that the desktop looks a lot cleaner and certainly much simpler. Now I don't feel as overwhelmed as seeing a slew of apps at the bottom that I don't even use all of the time.

I suppose to some, the best approach to using the dock is to use it in conjunction with other means such as dock folder listings, desktop aliases, and third-party solutions.

[ccrider]

Download dividers here.

Put them somewhere safe in your home folder (I put them in a folder within my documents folder). Select them all, and drag them to the right side of your dock (where documents go), and let go - They'll pop over to the apps section.

Now, just put them between groups of apps, helping you distinguish between utilities, etc.

Works great for me...

[JKT]

Originally posted by KidRed:
The dock could be much better.
Contexual menu additions-

*hide app
*show app
*hide others
*show all
*get info
(maybe even show cpu %)

and contextual menu folder browsing needs to speed up a lot more to make that a useful way to navigate.

Windowshade needs to be native, as I'd rather not run haxies. I couldn't live without ASM, but the above additions to the dock would make it easier to do.

This is partly already possible and built into the OS, but for some reason Apple chose not to activate it.

Get Hide From Dock which is an AppleScript application to activate the Hide/Hide Others options in the Dock contextual menus.

[clarkgoble]

If you run ASM it'll let you hide apps as well. After I got used to the dock I don't use it that much. But I do like the Sys9 styled bring all app windows to the front mode. (In that mode if you click on the application icon all its windows are brought to the front - very handy for some tasks)

About the only complaint I have with the dock is the minimized view. First off the icons are too small to be useful, severely limiting its function. Second you can't quit a window/application that is minimized. You have to first maximize it and then close it. This is very annoying in my opinion.

On the other hand I can't think of too many other options beyond a hide window. And that has too many GUI flaws itself. OSX 10.2 nearly had that minimize in place feature. However it too had many flaws which is why it was removed at the last minute. Hopefully 10.3 comes up with a solution to the minimization problem. I've racked my brain and I simply can't figure out a solution.

BTW - anyone who hasn't used them - the dock dividers are very useful. I actually just made my own. There is a tip for it over in OSX Hints on how to do it. (Basically just paste a custom bar as a small application's icon)

The only other problem I have with the dock is that if you drag a folder to it, right clicking on the folder pauses while it updates the directory to list as a context menu. I have a folder which I put aliases to all my commonly used applications. Yet the pause before it displays is very annoying. I wish they'd fix that.

[GENERAL_SMILEY]

...launchbar.

Don't make me say it again.

[Cipher13]

I think the Dock is horrible, to this day.

However - I'll take it anyday over XP's taskbar. That thing is a monstrosity.

I like Control Strip + Pop-up folders + Application Manager. All stock with OS9.

Awesome combo.

[RevEvs]

The dock is ok, but nothing special.

revs

[JKT]

Originally posted by clarkgoble:
If you run ASM it'll let you hide apps as well. After I got used to the dock I don't use it that much. But I do like the Sys9 styled bring all app windows to the front mode. (In that mode if you click on the application icon all its windows are brought to the front - very handy for some tasks)

About the only complaint I have with the dock is the minimized view. First off the icons are too small to be useful, severely limiting its function. Second you can't quit a window/application that is minimized. You have to first maximize it and then close it. This is very annoying in my opinion.

On the other hand I can't think of too many other options beyond a hide window. And that has too many GUI flaws itself. OSX 10.2 nearly had that minimize in place feature. However it too had many flaws which is why it was removed at the last minute. Hopefully 10.3 comes up with a solution to the minimization problem. I've racked my brain and I simply can't figure out a solution.

I personally have no problem with a combination of minimising windows and hiding apps and think the Dock works very well (there are of course limitations - the inability to close minimised windows as you mention, lack of SLF menus etc). Then again, I absolutely detest WindowShading and thought it was one of the worst features of the Mac (I do, however, like the ability to make windows transparent that WindowShade X offers and wish Apple would include that in the OS).

However, one possible improvement that I can think of would be to have an option for each application's minimised windows to bunch into a pile - clicking the pile would spring a Finder-window-like menu (offering icon/list view with resizable icons) to allow you quick selection of the window you want. Obviously this would require the speed of contextual menus in the Dock to be greatly improved, but it would reduce the complaints of the "my dock is to small" variety.

[Mediaman_12]

Originally posted by JKT:
However, one possible improvement that I can think of would be to have an option for each application's minimised windows to bunch into a pile

If you click a Application icon it will give you a selectable list of that applications windows.

[JKT]

Originally posted by Mediaman_12:
If you click a Application icon it will give you a selectable list of that applications windows.

...which aren't grouped into those that are minimised and those that aren't and don't give any indication as to which window is which (if they have the same title - like many web pages can). It's half there, but doesn't offer the separation of minimised versus non-minimised that the right side of the Dock does.

[dissident]

Originally posted by malvolio:
Two things that imediately come to mind:
- you can turn off Dock icon bouncing in the Dock prefs;
-each Dock icon's contextual menu gives you easy access to all your open windows.

They still bounce when an when apps have alert messages.

[dissident]

Midwinter,

great reply! Although with the apps moving around, I meant when you quit and launch apps that aren't in the dock as favorit apps. These apps disappear when you quit them and that makes a bunch of other apps in the dock to move in one direction. Some apps take while to disappear form the dock and this can be very annoying when you are about to drop a file on an app or something.

[SMacTech]

Originally posted by dissident:
They still bounce when an when apps have alert messages.

Try Dock Detox or something like that. I turned that annoying dock bouncing off a long time ago.
Oh, and the dock is great for me, especially when I have to use XP Pro all day long, I hate the task bar, now that really sucks.

[THE MAC GOD]

Dockfun is the solution to your problem.. it quickly and easily makes multiple copies of the dock... you can make each dock for different things (entertainment, apps, docs, etc)... Its badass

[midwinter]

Originally posted by dissident:
Midwinter,

great reply! Although with the apps moving around, I meant when you quit and launch apps that aren't in the dock as favorit apps. These apps disappear when you quit them and that makes a bunch of other apps in the dock to move in one direction. Some apps take while to disappear form the dock and this can be very annoying when you are about to drop a file on an app or something.

Thanks. The only solution for this that I've found is that I stick even apps that I don't use very often in there. On my iBook (12" screen), I've got fourteen apps in my dock, an alias to my hard drive, a document, two folders, and the trash in there now. Two of the apps I hardly ever use.

I suppose it all boils down to making good decisions about what you put in there (doesn't everything boil down to that, in some way or other ?). I actually misspoke when i said that I have magnify turned off; I don't. I just have it set so that the apps move up by *about* a quarter-inch (what, 10mm or so?)...that way the apps move enough to give me a visual response, but not enough to move away from the pointer.

Anyway, at the very least, try the dock dividers. They really work well. You might also try Dragthing. I used it religiously prior to OS X, and before I switched I used a windows feature in Office that was remarkably similar. I suspect that that's why I was able to transition to the dock so easily...it was just an OS implementation of a technology I'd been using for a while. Not as full-featured (yet), but perfectly usable.

If only the REST of OS X were as responsive as the dock....

Cheers
Scott

[KidRed]

Originally posted by JKT:
This is partly already possible and built into the OS, but for some reason Apple chose not to activate it.

Get Hide From Dock which is an AppleScript application to activate the Hide/Hide Others options in the Dock contextual menus.

Ah, really? There are a lot of things that Apple hides it seems. Thanks for the find.