[kenwedin]

I've been using Macs since about System 5.3 and have owned them since System 6.0. The switch from System 6 to System 7 was almost as revolutionary as going from OS 9 to OS X. About the only significant difference between System 7 and System 8/OS 8 was HFS+ formatting (that saved a lot of disk space) and desktop pictures, as far as I can remember.

What do you all envision for OS 11 and the Macs (especially PowerBooks) that will run it? Let your imaginations soar.

More than a decade ago, a friend and I imagined that by now screens would be roll-up or fold-up plexi-plastic screens, but we've always been unable to see beyond the keyboard limitations, remembering that keyboard entry/input is faster than writing with a stylus (or even Morse Code).

As for the machines, I've long thought it ridiculous that we still have moving parts (i.e., the hard disk). I look forward to having Flash memory in the 100 GB range, which someone will surely eventually make possible, cutting down on weight and size as well as some speed restrictions.

The world will open up for us when Apple ditches IBM/Motorola and uses Intel, which would encourage more Windows users to adopt the Mac OS and developers to adapt their applications for it. Of course this is an old argument. Even if Intel chips were slower or generated too much heat, at least the Mac market share would soar, putting us in the same world as Windows and Linux.

However, what I can't envision at all is what OS 11 will be like. I have a feeling it will be as insignificant a change as the System 7 to OS 8 step, or even OS 8 to OS 9, which in both cases seemed to happen only because they ran out of incremental numbers.

Let me know what you think. Hopefully, at the very least, they'll have sorting by "kind" for columns view sometime in the future, but this hardly takes much imagination.

What kind of iApps will come out by the time OS 11 is released?

[iOliverC]

Mac OS 11 will not be out for a very long time. I seem to remember Woz or Steve saying OS X will be here for atleast 10 years.

[spcargt]

Well I bet Apple is going to hold on to the X for as long as they can. Possibly even making future versions roman numerals just to keep that X. OS XI...maybe.

As for revolutionary, I don't know. I sure hope so but who says 11 won't be the same as 7 to 8 was? All we can do is speculate, but this is what I think.

11 would have to compete with Windows' ability to render the OS with DirectX, allowing for more 3d objects within the OS itself. At least, that's what they're working on now. with that in mind, it would be really exciting to see what Apple would come up with. You'd also have to take into account the unix/linux community and see what they come up with in that time span as well.

Personally, I originally wanted to see Apple switch to the x86 but now I don't want them to. Their main source of income is with the hardware and frankly they'd have to start offering cheaper machines to tap into the low-end market while still having to significantly lower their top of the line machines by roughly half their current price just to be competitive. But i'll stop there on that issue.

I, too, am surprised that we are still using moveable parts. a 100GB flash would probably be equivalent to what a 40GB drive is today. Meaning, we'd need a lot more than 100GB

And about those screens. I've seen somewhere on TV these grey sheets that contain little balls inside. One side of the ball is white while the other side is grey. They're magnitized to flip to one side or the other, creating text or images. Like pixels. Now that I can see as a future screen...but the keyboard issue remains. We currently are accustomed to using the keyboard and can be very efficient with the keyboard and mouse combo. There are ideas like what Tom Cruise uses in Minority Report, but wouldn't your arms get tired after a while? In the end, if we were to change to something else...there would be a lot of getting used to it and a lot of others complaining about it and remembering the old days.

[mitchell_pgh]

I feel that the term "Complete Integration" comes to mind when I think about the future of the Mac OS.

I don't think Apple has any intention of keeping all of the iApps as separate applications, but rather all interact with one another. This is what iLife is about, but when you integrate Quicktime and a few other programs, you start to get this interesting hybrid application.

- I see video in iChat (as do many people)
- I see iMovie integration with your TV (record shows)
- I see iTunes expanding web radio
- I see a sound iApp (for basic sound editing)
- I see an open source Office application with full iLife integration

The next major phase of apple will be the home. Apple needs to make the Macintosh integrate into our homes... Rendezvous is a step in the right direction.

[schalliol]

Interesting stuff.

One side note. OS 8 did not include HFS+, that didn't come through until OS 8.1. The deal with 8 is that they had to get something out. The real OS 8 planned was actually something about like OS X and the marketing team really blew it. So, rather than calling what we know as Mac OS 8 Mac OS 7, they made that jump. OS 8 started to add more functionality to the finder and made it a "prettier" OS.

As for next OSes, I think that we will continue to embrace 10 for quite some time. 10.2 was the first real mainstream release of the OS because it finally had enough features and reliability for it to be used by average Joe. However, there still is a ways to go on this front and Apple needs to vastly improve the performance of certain functions, especially with relation to the finder. I would imagine that 10.3 would not be substantially different than 10.2, but would include a more substantial update to iChat, should one not be released before then. Then each incrimental release will provide some extra functionality and improve the reliability and performance of the app.

There could be a jump to 10.5 if there are substantial improvements, but I don't see that happening for awhile. I'd say 11 is WAY out there and I doubt even Apple knows what it will contain. From a marketing perspective, OS 10 is nice because of the round number and the X. They can do a lot with that. If the users get restless and unsatisfied with the OS as it is, 11 may be born sooner than they would create it.

[SirCastor]

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:

- I see video in iChat (as do many people)
- I see iMovie integration with your TV (record shows)
- I see iTunes expanding web radio
- I see a sound iApp (for basic sound editing)
- I see an open source Office application with full iLife integration

I think we all want to see this kind of integration, but I don't think we will. Not for the lack of technology or attempts by Apple, but the squeeze is coming in with terms of media and DRM. It is the biggest road block in our way to having this kind of functionality.

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally posted by SirCastor:
I think we all want to see this kind of integration, but I don't think we will. Not for the lack of technology or attempts by Apple, but the squeeze is coming in with terms of media and DRM. It is the biggest road block in our way to having this kind of functionality.

Very true. Everyone is trying to get in on the $$$'s and they aren't going to give in...

[teszeract]

OS XI

[schalliol]

Well, 10.2.4 isn't much different anyway. (announced about 30 min ago)

[SupahCoolX]

I don't think they meant actually calling it version "10" for 10 years. They meant the current UNIX-based OSX platform in general (just as the "Classic" OS was around for many years). One could argue that Jaguar could have been called version 11 because of all the new features, apps, etc. (and the fact that a lot of new software requires it).
Anyway, naming conventions aside...
I envision the next major OS update (whatever they call it) as having the sort of integration seen with iLife and such. Various bits of data will be stored in some general format, and can then be accessed by any other app. We have some of that now with the iTunes library in iMovie, Address book info in Safari's bookmarks organizer, iChat status in Mail, and so on. I think this idea will be extended to other fields, and will be the Next Big Thing? for the MacOS.

[cutterjohn]

Originally posted by kenwedin:
The world will open up for us when Apple ditches IBM/Motorola and uses Intel, which would encourage more Windows users to adopt the Mac OS and developers to adapt their applications for it. Of course this is an old argument. Even if Intel chips were slower or generated too much heat, at least the Mac market share would soar, putting us in the same world as Windows and Linux.

uh, exactly how would using the same POS processor architecture encourage people to switch?!

Hell, the ONLY reason I bought more macs(after 10 years of x86 hell) was because they did NOT use the POS x86 architecture and OSX. The very LAST thing that I want is some hacked/kludged to hell POS x86 architecture based machine that is still backwards compatible with an 8088 and all the cruft that that entails, not to mention the crap power utilization.

Apple moves to Intel, I move to Sun Blades(UltraSPARC III)/Solaris. And actually I'd rather move to a MIPs SGI/IRIX, but SGIs are somewhat pricey.

[Webscreamer]

Originally posted by iOliverC:
Mac OS 11 will not be out for a very long time. I seem to remember Woz or Steve saying OS X will be here for atleast 10 years.

I think they ment the core system, but they will change the name(example: OS 11)

[greenG4]

If they REALLY wanted the "X" to lasta a long time they should have started with OS X v1.0 or something. We would then be on OS X v2.4.

[Hi I'm Mike]

I see everything going xml and it will be totally cool.. using scripts and everything make the computer do vurtually anything. you are starting to see it happen now and it will start taking over. i really think java and xml and everything are the best place for os x to move forward. sorry i had to say it somewhere.

[iEvolve]

Originally posted by greenG4:
If they REALLY wanted the "X" to lasta a long time they should have started with OS X v1.0 or something. We would then be on OS X v2.4.

That's a joke, right?

[lookmark]

It's incredibly hard to guess things like this, because technology itself is so unpredictable.

Here's my guesses, though:


WWDC 03
- further integration of Cocoa and Carbon APIS (Cocoa moved toward front end, Carbon toward back end)


10.3 | "Panther"
- advanced natural voice technology
- education-focused eBook Reader iApp
- enhanced Dock and Finder
- introduction of smart MIME-based metadata system
- speed improvements using Quartz Extreme
- refreshed Aqua appearance

10.4 | ?
- ability to view files using metadata in new and interesting ways, e.g. a new kind of Browser window
- interface effects using Quartz Extreme
- more user-friendly UNIX
- consumer-friendly remote access
- comes bundled with Apple Office (Document, Spreadsheet, Keynote)

future major version of the OS
- shift from desktop metaphor to less flat, more three-dimensional metaphor (!)
- integrated voice recognition and voice control
- introduction of sophisicated AI to help users automate and work on tasks

And so on.

[docholiday]

i haven't really thought about things i want in terms of os 11 / os x upgrades.

The things I would like to see in the near future for the mac os:
- it should be snappier (it's stable already so now they should be working on speed)
- it should be able to force non-smp applications into exploiting the potential of dual/quad cpus
- it should make full use of it's native graphic capabilities (openGL in particular), proving that microsoft can shove their direct3d somewhere else
- it should remove the bottlenecks that make developers (eg. virtual pc) complain about their product being slow because of the os


hmm, seems like most of my comments were related to speed, which is a very good sign: It shows I am happy with the interface and the ease of use! Now if they get speed up to what it should be then, yeeaa baby.

[sniffer]

Originally posted by docholiday:
i haven't really thought about things i want in terms of os 11 / os x upgrades.

The things I would like to see in the near future for the mac os:
- it should be snappier (it's stable already so now they should be working on speed)
- it should be able to force non-smp applications into exploiting the potential of dual/quad cpus
- it should make full use of it's native graphic capabilities (openGL in particular), proving that microsoft can shove their direct3d somewhere else
- it should remove the bottlenecks that make developers (eg. virtual pc) complain about their product being slow because of the os


hmm, seems like most of my comments were related to speed, which is a very good sign: It shows I am happy with the interface and the ease of use! Now if they get speed up to what it should be then, yeeaa baby.

Agree about your view on d3d, but OS X make full use of OpenGL already.
The speed part is not the biggest issue for Apple in general since the hardware matures over time. No matter what, it's just a matter of time until the GUI speed is on pair with OS 9s instant.. Eh.. snappiness (sorry). But I do agree Apple should focus a bit more on other things than features in the comming updates. IMHO I think it would have been nice if Apple could focus a bit more on stability/bug tracing and speed. Not that I don't like new features, but lately I've in some degree felt like a beta a tester when new updates have arrived. But that's just my thought.

[Richard Edgar]

it should be able to force non-smp applications into exploiting the potential of dual/quad cpus

Would you like to explain how this can be achieved?

[Agent69]

As an oldtime Mac user, I would prefer if they called it System 10 or System X.

[docholiday]

Originally posted by Richard Edgar:
Would you like to explain how this can be achieved?

I think this could be achieved by having the operating system split the commands/instructions sent by programs and have both processors work on them - ie make the dual processors be used as ONE unit.

My idea might not be technically feasible ( i don't know) but that would speed up a lot of apps. I am assuming such a "feature" would also require a huge fsb.

[-Q-]

I'm just going to enjoy pointing at my G15 Mac and saying "this one goes to XI"

I have to agree with SirCastor. I think there may be a number of integration features planned, but until the legal system removes it's head from it's arse and stops the corporate ninnies at the MPAA and the RIAA, we'll never see 'em...

[Drizzt]

Here's what I'd like..

• File system as a database
• Documents as XML
• Applications as Services providing ways to interprete the XML Documents

That would mean.. no more apps, no more desktop. You have content, it's availlable to any apps out there and can be used anywhere, anytime.

Of course.. that would need a huge lot of developpement

An other nice thing would be a graphical interface to the unix pipelining. I mean.. doing things like "cat file.txt | grep 'something'" with applications like Word, Photoshop, Sarafi.. that would be quite Powerful..

[Superchicken]

what would I say should be done... make iPhoto not suck... the video iChat thing would be sweet... if not majorly used because honestly I know very few other mac users so unless they teamed up and released some big thing with AOL... anyway.

I'd also like to see an iNintendo... or something... either use an internal drive or a external one in a controler to run nintendo game cube games and develop a emultator for it. I mean Conextis got Viritual Game Station running well without any help from sony. And ninteno makes more of their cash from licencing the games so apple could make a bit on the controlers and there ya go!

Think about it what's the one major house hold appliance apple hasn't some how tied into? Obviously the TV and Sterio will come as those become more computer friendly. But the console is still kinda left in the cold... why? No one's thought of it. Wouldn't it be great to say... Macs don't suck for gamming... I can run Resident Evil on mine!

Granted this isn't likely but I think it's probably possible... I dout the gekko or the Ati card in there are more powerful than what's in our Macs...

other than that... the only iApp I might see comming would be uhh... acctually I can't think of any...

[BuonRotto]

Originally posted by Drizzt:
Here's what I'd like..

<snip list>

That would mean.. no more apps, no more desktop. You have content, it's availlable to any apps out there and can be used anywhere, anytime.

Of course.. that would need a huge lot of developpement

That, and an economic model.

[Detrius]

Originally posted by docholiday:
I think this could be achieved by having the operating system split the commands/instructions sent by programs and have both processors work on them - ie make the dual processors be used as ONE unit.

My idea might not be technically feasible ( i don't know) but that would speed up a lot of apps. I am assuming such a "feature" would also require a huge fsb.

The reason the question was asked is because it is NOT technically feasible. This involves an actual understanding of the way an algorithm works. If you want parallelism, talk to the coders.

Your idea about the huge fsb... well, processors already do this to some degree. It's called a superscalar architecture. This is where a processor gets multiple integer execution units and an out of order execution ability. It would be pointless to try to split this accross multiple processors because you make the out of order execution incredibly complex.

I'm going to stop here. Anyone that states this wish to begin with knows nothing about programming or processor architecture, so I'm already going into too much depth...

check out http://www.arstechnica.com

[ZackS]

Mac OS XI

[Richard Edgar]

The reason the question was asked is because it is NOT technically feasible. This involves an actual understanding of the way an algorithm works. If you want parallelism, talk to the coders.

Good to see someone understood

[docholiday]

Originally posted by Detrius:
...I'm going to stop here. Anyone that states this wish to begin with knows nothing about programming or processor architecture, so I'm already going into too much depth...

check out http://www.arstechnica.com

Thanx for clarifying that my "wish" is not very efficient/feasible...
while i do know programming, i am not very familiar with the way the algorithm is processed hardware-wise, nor do i know a whole lot about processor archtitecture.

[SOLIDAge]

i predict that in OS "11" ( or as i view it 10.3 since .2 was a HUGE update)...

Photoshop and InDesign will still be slow...
very slow

[Superchicken]

Originally posted by ZackS:
Mac OS XI

If apple ever does that... I think I might have to never move past Jaguar

[SPiNdustrious]

Originally posted by Drizzt:
Here's what I'd like..

• File system as a database
• Documents as XML
• Applications as Services providing ways to interprete the XML Documents

That would mean.. no more apps, no more desktop. You have content, it's availlable to any apps out there and can be used anywhere, anytime.

Of course.. that would need a huge lot of developpement

An other nice thing would be a graphical interface to the unix pipelining. I mean.. doing things like "cat file.txt | grep 'something'" with applications like Word, Photoshop, Sarafi.. that would be quite Powerful..

What a kick this would be!

The iLife Integration model is cute, but exists mostly for convenience's sake. It does not offer users extensible power and flexibilty.

An OS that can take UNIX's "good specialized tools that can work together" model from the command line to a fluid "Minority Report"-inspired interface would create a whole new computing paradigm.

If Apple could couple an OS like the one Drizzt suggested with a smashing interface, graphical or otherwise, with some exciting hardware, I would be one happy camper.

I think Apple needs to get its hardware in order. It's well designed and reliable, but it's certainly not as envelope-pushing as its industrial and software design.

Peter

[starman]

Originally posted by iOliverC:
Mac OS 11 will not be out for a very long time. I seem to remember Woz or Steve saying OS X will be here for atleast 10 years.

I think he said the technology will be around for 10 years, not OS X itself.

Mike

[CIA]

The Copland Project we be reborn as OS 11! Ha, in reallty, who knows what the future holds?

[Superchicken]

I wish I had been a mac user in the copland days...

[thePurpleGiant]

Originally posted by Drizzt:
[*]Applications as Services providing ways to interprete the XML Documents[/list]
That would mean.. no more apps, no more desktop. You have content, it's availlable to any apps out there and can be used anywhere, anytime.

Out of interest, were you around in the days of OpenDoc? ~1996 I believe it was. This is exactly the technology you described. It failed miserably because people could not come to grips with this concept. The concept was all well and good, but to the ordinary folk it just seemed to confuse issues.

[snotnose]

maybe apple will follow macromedia's new naming. OS X MX or OS X SX ?

[Keda]

Guys, 10.2 > 10.3 takes about a year. Each .x step is analogous to OS8 > OS9. Thats why it will take 10years to reach 11.0. We are now 2yrs in, so I'd guess 11 would be about 8yrs away.

Consider how big of a jump 10.1 > 10.2 is. I think each .x update will be as significant.

I don't know what we'll see, but I'm sure 10.3 will bring some big features and speed.

[Drizzt]

Originally posted by thePurpleGiant:
Out of interest, were you around in the days of OpenDoc? ~1996 I believe it was. This is exactly the technology you described. It failed miserably because people could not come to grips with this concept. The concept was all well and good, but to the ordinary folk it just seemed to confuse issues.

Yes I was, and OpenDoc failed mostly because the API where too difficult to use. The programmer had to think about every format that could come to be had in the application and program a case for it.

Now we have service to do things like that.. and it works!

[Synaptic]

I'd like to follow up on some comments about a three dimensional finder. I'm not quite sure how it would work but the interface presented by Th!nkmap, as an example, is truely amazing (see http://www.visualthesaurus.com for their 3D interface onto a thesaurus). Imaging a finder where files were linked by project, similarity, type, date etc. Now that would be a change worthy of a XI. Quartz Extreme would come into its own.

[Nebagakid]

It will be
Mac OS X v.11.0.1