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adamberti · Mar 10, 2003, 03:59 PM

Alright, Apple has yet another update for us...Java 1.4.1.

So with Apple's recent string of poor quality updates - IMHO - do we go ahead and just install this one? Is something like Java going to be a better update because its so widely used everywhere and not just proprietary Apple coding?

And for those of you who have installed it, how is it?

gorickey · Mar 10, 2003, 04:02 PM

Originally posted by adamberti:
Alright, Apple has yet another update for us...Java 1.4.1.

So with Apple's recent string of poor quality updates - IMHO - do we go ahead and just install this one? Is something like Java going to be a better update because its so widely used everywhere and not just proprietary Apple coding?

And for those of you who have installed it, how is it?

Where is it for starters?

**Software Update** ....nevermind.

gorickey · Mar 10, 2003, 04:26 PM

No big difference for me in Safari or Konfabulator...

adamberti · Mar 10, 2003, 04:37 PM

Originally posted by gorickey:
Where is it for starters?

**Software Update** ....nevermind.

I knew it! I read and reread my post several times, knowing I meant to add something but couldnt figure out what it was - "Where is it?"

Thanks for adding that gorickey

jasong · Mar 10, 2003, 04:40 PM

I think Konfabulator uses javascript, not Java. If so, then this update would provide no improvements to Konfabulator. It does however provide major improvements to OS X's Java capabilities.

-- Jason

aaanorton · Mar 10, 2003, 04:49 PM

Well, the videos here now work. They didn't this past Sat (2 days ago). All but the live cam now work for me. That may be something on their end.

absmiths · Mar 10, 2003, 04:49 PM

This update just adds additional support for JDK 1.4, it does not replace the JDK 1.3 that is on by default.

BTW, There is plenty of "proprietary Apple coding" in there.

G-mac · Mar 10, 2003, 04:55 PM

Don't notice much difference on my PB 550.

gorickey · Mar 10, 2003, 04:58 PM

Originally posted by absmiths:
This update just adds additional support for JDK 1.4, it does not replace the JDK 1.3 that is on by default.

BTW, There is plenty of "proprietary Apple coding" in there.

I now have the 1.3.1 Jave Plug-in and 1.4.1 Java-Cocoa Plug-in according to Safari v60.

JLL · Mar 10, 2003, 05:01 PM

Originally posted by absmiths:
This update just adds additional support for JDK 1.4, it does not replace the JDK 1.3 that is on by default.

1.4.1 is on by default (it wasn't in the DPs).

Dr_Doom · Mar 10, 2003, 05:11 PM

So how do you know which plug-in your browser is using? Is there any benefit to removing the older version of Java? If there is, how does one remove the older version?

Thanks,

Dr_Doom

jasong · Mar 10, 2003, 05:20 PM

The release notes (at least the release notes in the preview releases) state that the OS will figure out if it is better to use the 1.3 plugin or the 1.4.1 plugin. So I would imagine you are better off leaving both of them on your system.

-- Jason

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Mar 10, 2003, 05:34 PM

This is software and there is a thread here

http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.p...hreadid=150076

JLL · Mar 10, 2003, 05:42 PM

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
This is software and there is a thread here

http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.p...hreadid=150076

Java is a framework - not a software product.

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Mar 10, 2003, 05:59 PM

Originally posted by JLL:
Java is a framework - not a software product.

quadgrande · Mar 10, 2003, 06:04 PM

Supposedly integrates QE into Java apps. Limewire seems "snappier"

Really, folks, scrolling and column resize are faster.

Cool. Anything that helps limewire is a blessing.

TheMosco · Mar 10, 2003, 06:08 PM

Originally posted by quadgrande:
Supposedly integrates QE into Java apps. Limewire seems "snappier"

Really, folks, scrolling and column resize are faster.

Cool. Anything that helps limewire is a blessing.

wouldn't they technically have to recompile Limewire using 1.4.1 for you to notice any speed gains.

Terri · Mar 10, 2003, 06:16 PM

Originally posted by JLL:
Java is a framework - not a software product.

Damn and here all along I thought it was a desert topping.

Wait, it's a virtual machine AND a desert topping too that also can be used as a floor wax as well.

It's three, yes count them, three products in one, plus it will keep your computer smelling spring fresh even during that special time of the month.

JAVA, not just for running applets�

JeremyS · Mar 10, 2003, 06:45 PM

I was about to ask if Limewire got a good kick the ass with this update and actually moves!!

Im off to see if Limewire can run and not crawl.

Gul Banana · Mar 10, 2003, 08:03 PM

Originally posted by TheMosco:
wouldn't they technically have to recompile Limewire using 1.4.1 for you to notice any speed gains.

Nope. That's one of the good things about the way the Java VM works.

tkmd · Mar 10, 2003, 08:29 PM

I think, (off the top of my head) the only programs that specifically take advantage of 1.4 must specifically state that they need to use 1.4 - Safari and aquasition are the only two that come to mind. Otherwise the OS X java defaults to 1.3

So Limewire will need to be recompiled for 1.4 to feel any differences.

curmi · Mar 10, 2003, 08:56 PM

Originally posted by tkmd:
I think, (off the top of my head) the only programs that specifically take advantage of 1.4 must specifically state that they need to use 1.4 - Safari and aquasition are the only two that come to mind. Otherwise the OS X java defaults to 1.3

Applications run from the command line also default to use 1.4.

Earth Mk. II · Mar 10, 2003, 09:00 PM

hum.. all the CS computers here use 1.4.0.. Will compiling with 1.4.1 going to be a problem?

I don't think it would be - but If I can avoid compiling for a specific VM version, I'd like that.

G-mac · Mar 10, 2003, 10:01 PM

Limewire 2.8.6 does seem a little smoother - the column resizing, that is.

wtmcgee · Mar 10, 2003, 10:33 PM

i noticed on reboot that 1.3 and 1.4.1 were loading up. java is not my forte', so i have 2 questions;

1) is this supposed to happen?
2) if the answer is yes, why? is apple going to remove 1.3 at some point, or are both required, kind of like a 'classic' enviroment for older java apps? or is 1.4.1 backwards compatible?

(geez, that's more like 5 questions

)

Earth Mk. II · Mar 10, 2003, 11:04 PM

Originally posted by wtmcgee:
2) if the answer is yes, why? is apple going to remove 1.3 at some point, or are both required, kind of like a 'classic' enviroment for older java apps? or is 1.4.1 backwards compatible?

The 1.4.1 VM should be backwards compatable with older java classes.

I think apple kept 1.3 around for apps that depend on that version existing for whatever reason. It'll probably be gone in the future.

I Have Questions · Mar 10, 2003, 11:16 PM

My wife likes to play different games on games.yahoo.com and most of them say "Not compatible with Macintosh or Linux computers". What this really means is that they are dog slow. With this update, the games that run in a Java applet are quicker in Safari than on a PC. Good news for the wife!

rw · Mar 10, 2003, 11:49 PM

I use two Java applications -- Moneydance and Bag of Unusual Strategy Games. Both used to be dog slow. Now both take noticeably less than a lifetime to load and run at blazingly tolerable speeds.

(iMac 500 MHz, 640MB RAM, OS X 10.2.4)

JB72 · 12:03 AM

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
This is software and there is a thread here

http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.p...hreadid=150076

Errrrr. Mac OS X is software.

itai195 · Mar 10, 2003, 11:59 PM

Originally posted by wtmcgee:
i noticed on reboot that 1.3 and 1.4.1 were loading up. java is not my forte', so i have 2 questions;

1) is this supposed to happen?
2) if the answer is yes, why? is apple going to remove 1.3 at some point, or are both required, kind of like a 'classic' enviroment for older java apps? or is 1.4.1 backwards compatible?

(geez, that's more like 5 questions )

Yes, Apple's 1.4.1 release adds support for having multiple Java versions installed on one machine, so you should still have 1.3.1. Old Java apps packaged as OS X applications will still run in 1.3.1 until they are updated.

adamberti · Mar 11, 2003, 12:25 AM

Well I didnt see anyone complaining about this update yet, so I went ahead and installed it...Everything fine so far

The only difference I've noticed is using JAVA in Safari, some Java games before didnt work, and now they do. But they still do not in Camino - possibly because it uses its own Java code, whereas Safari uses system wide support - which is what was updated...

Jerommeke · Mar 11, 2003, 01:39 AM

safari is fast as hell in safari compared to the past slowliness

nickm · Mar 11, 2003, 02:32 AM

You shouldn't delete 1.3.1. 1.4 makes many significant changes; some apps may require 1.3.1 to work properly.

workerbee · Mar 11, 2003, 06:00 AM

Originally posted by Jerommeke:
safari is fast as hell in safari compared to the past slowliness

How did you manage to run Safari in Safari? And why is it faster?

clebin · Mar 11, 2003, 07:39 AM

I seem to be having a bit more luck with Pogo.com now. I can't remember the last time I tried it...

They do browser detection though, and say that because Safari is Nestscape you can't use this game. Why not use IE 5 for Mac? Oh, yippee, I will do.

Of course, if you change the user-agent on the Debug menu, the game works perfectly..

Chris

CatOne · Mar 11, 2003, 09:11 AM

Originally posted by tkmd:
I think, (off the top of my head) the only programs that specifically take advantage of 1.4 must specifically state that they need to use 1.4 - Safari and aquasition are the only two that come to mind. Otherwise the OS X java defaults to 1.3

So Limewire will need to be recompiled for 1.4 to feel any differences.

Again, no, it shouldn't work like this.

"compiling" java produces byte code. This byte code will run ANYWHERE with a supported Java version -- you can compile Java on a windows machine and take that EXACT output and run it on a Mac. You can also compile on JDK 1.3.x and then run it on JDK 1.4.x. So long as you don't use classes which have "disappeared" in JDK 1.4.x (I don't know that there are any) it will run just fine. It's just that your code will (obviously) not be using any of the new JDK 1.4.x APIs because the javac compiler didn't know they'd exist.

So... recompiling isn't necessary. All that really matters is which JVM that OS X decides to launch by default (and it probably wouldn't look inside the java classes to find this info -- it's more than likely a path issue).

Earth Mk. II · Mar 11, 2003, 09:45 AM

Well, more then likely, it's what an application is desgined to support.

in the case of web browsers, they may need to make some changes to have 1.4.1 work properly, so Apple defaults back to 1.3 in those cases.

in the case of an application bundle, it may be a configuration or class path thing.

I think it's just there so things that were working don't suddenly stop working.

Bohemia · Mar 11, 2003, 10:47 AM

My bank still won't let me pay my bills online, I get this error:

java.lang.ClassFormatError: Regningsbetaling (Bad magic number)

Never has worked, never will? Works great on the PC next to me.

Anyone having similar problems? Or, preferrably, a solution?

ShortcutToMoncton · Mar 11, 2003, 11:12 AM

Actually, Limewire is suddenly MUCH snappier for me. Honestly, I was using it last night, downloaded the update, and now this morning it seems to be quite faster. Take it for what it's worth.

greg

Dale Sorel · Mar 11, 2003, 11:35 AM

I can access my local library's catalog now. I couldn't do that before

SMacTech · Mar 11, 2003, 01:53 PM

Originally posted by Bohemia:
My bank still won't let me pay my bills online, I get this error:

java.lang.ClassFormatError: Regningsbetaling (Bad magic number)

Never has worked, never will? Works great on the PC next to me.

Anyone having similar problems? Or, preferrably, a solution?

Are you using Safari? Sites that don't work in Camino are working for me in Safari.

cenutrio · Mar 11, 2003, 01:54 PM

Hi guys,
I already solved my problems, but I wanted to share my experience.

OK, I installed the new update late yesterday via update in preference panels, after which, I turn off my computer and went home. When I started up my PBti 400/40GB/384 MB today, I could not surf the web or receive email. Not internet application worked, but I still could connect other computers in my network. I checked my network and internet settings, nothing appeared to be affected.

Basically, I deleted all files concerning the new Java upgrade and installed Java 1.4.1 again (I downloaded from apple.com in another computer and transfer it via network to my affected PBti).

After restart everything worked fine, I have not clue what went wrong, go figure.

I hope you guys avoid such messy problems

Bohemia · Mar 11, 2003, 03:21 PM

Originally posted by SMacTech:
Are you using Safari? Sites that don't work in Camino are working for me in Safari.

Nope. netscape 7/Mozilla 1.3b, the only mac browsers I know of that supports the security certificates they use... Hope Apple fixes it, I'd really like to use Safari for all this...

clebin · Mar 11, 2003, 03:39 PM

You'll notice a few differences in the Utilities/Java folder.

The Applet Launcher is now brushed metal, but the main window doesn't resize properly. More importantly, you can't drag an HTML file to its icon to launch an applet. You have to choose Open.. and navigate. Pretty stupid.

There's also some Plug-in settings which let you do useful things like launch the Java console when the plug-in is used. This is really good...

Chris

gorgonzola · Mar 11, 2003, 09:03 PM

FWIW, we classify Java as an OS component, not a separate software product. It's too highly integrated into the shipping system not to consider it such. So posting here about it is fine.

Superchicken · Mar 11, 2003, 09:24 PM

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:

The only reply you can give after saying something stupid and being corrected.. aside from admiting you were wrong that is.

asmodeus · Mar 11, 2003, 11:46 PM

Originally posted by CatOne:
So long as you don't use classes which have "disappeared" in JDK 1.4.x (I don't know that there are any) it will run just fine.

Some of the Apple specific ones aren't available when using 1.4. QuickTime for Java, JDirect, the old com.apple.mrj stuff (I think), etc.

Most Java applications in .app bundles specify the Java version to use in the Info.plist file. More info on all this is at http://developer.apple.com/java

.jar files default to 1.4, and I noticed that Eclipse 2.1 RC2 uses 1.4 as well.

piracy · Mar 12, 2003, 07:39 AM

Originally posted by Bohemia:
Anyone having similar problems? Or, preferrably, a solution?

Yeah. Tell your bank to conform to the Java spec, and to test on more platforms than just Windows. Remind them that then whole purpose of Java is to be able to deploy their products on mulitple platforms, not to just make little web applets for Windows users.

Morenix · Mar 12, 2003, 07:43 AM

Errrrr. Mac OS X is software.

BIG PIECE of software

clebin · Mar 12, 2003, 12:29 PM

Well, it's still slow as hell...

I tried Eclipse, a nice Java IDE,. Every mouse click includes a momentary pause. I'm willing to bet - after using JBuilder on my TiBook 500 and a fairly equivalent Thinkpad - that it doesn't run like that on Windows.

Another incentive to get a newer Mac... shame I've just been made redundant, really.

Chris