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Patton76 · Mar 18, 2003, 11:02 AM

From Looprumours:

It appears that Apple is going to upgrade MacOS X to version 10.3 codenamed "Panther," the next major revision of its operating system, this Fall. Improvements are said to be as follows:

System-wide metal interface

Support for 64-Bit architecture

QuickTime 6.5

iChat 2.0 with videoconferencing capabilities

Final Safari release 1.0 GM

Updated iApps (possible inclusion of iWorks?)

Enhanced Dock features

Overall system speed enhancements

Optimized for the new systems

aaanorton · Mar 18, 2003, 11:07 AM

I'd be surprised if Safari 1.0 didn't get released till Fall. It's possible, I guess, but that app seems somewhat fast-tracked to me.

voodoo · Mar 18, 2003, 11:13 AM

All metal interface... oh dear. How about designing something new and fresh if they want to get rid of Aqua? How about it.

techtrucker · Mar 18, 2003, 11:22 AM

I don't mind the metal appearance on some apps, system wide would be bad and would not agree with Apple's HIG:

"Mac OS X version 10.2 provides developers with a new �textured� window appearance (see Figure 5-4). This window style has been designed specifically for use by�and is therefore best suited to�applications that provide an interface for a digital peripheral, such as a camera, or an interface for managing data shared with digital peripherals, such as the Address Book application.

This appearance may also be appropriate for applications that strive to re-create a familiar physical device�the Calculator application, for example. Avoid using the textured window appearance in applications or utilities that are unrelated to digital peripherals or to the data associated with these devices.

Within an application, the textured window appearance should be limited to the primary application window. Supporting windows, such as preferences and other dialogs, should not use the textured window appearance. It is acceptable to have a mix of standard Aqua windows and textured windows within an application.

If a textured window has a drawer or a toolbar, they automatically inherit the textured appearance. Sheets, however, maintain the standard Aqua appearance.""

Patton76 · Mar 18, 2003, 11:28 AM

Originally posted by techtrucker:
I don't mind the metal appearance on some apps, system wide would be bad and would not agree with Apple's HIG:

Apple can off course always change their HIG for 10.3, since the current one is especially for 10.2.

I do agree that system wide metal would be a mistake.

I do kind of like it on some apps, but like always, less is more.

Terri · Mar 18, 2003, 11:33 AM

I just want a real neutral color theme. An updated platinum would be nice. At least metal is neutral.

WombatPredator · Mar 18, 2003, 11:42 AM

Wouldn't a system-wide metal appearance piss off all the graphic designers who rely on something neutral for color correction?

Terri · Mar 18, 2003, 11:52 AM

Originally posted by WombatPredator:
Wouldn't a system-wide metal appearance piss off all the graphic designers who rely on something neutral for color correction?

Well since we don't have one now even metal would be an improvement.

WombatPredator · Mar 18, 2003, 12:02 PM

Originally posted by Terri:
Well since we don't have one now even metal would be an improvement.

Wasn't the graphite button scheme supposed to resolve the problem with having big colorful globs of color on top of your Photoshop windows? I guess it didn't help, huh?

-Q- · Mar 18, 2003, 12:05 PM

All metal? Ew.

Like it was suggested earlier, a nice updated platinum scheme for those that want it and keep aqua around for the rest. And leave metal to the specific apps it's appropriate for.

:shakes head:

techtrucker · Mar 18, 2003, 12:27 PM

Like I said I do like the metal appearance, but picturing everything in metal (finder, etc) makes me ill. I hear Mail might be going metal...not so sure I like that idea...

Steve W

Terri · Mar 18, 2003, 12:28 PM

Originally posted by WombatPredator:
Wasn't the graphite button scheme supposed to resolve the problem with having big colorful globs of color on top of your Photoshop windows? I guess it didn't help, huh?

Graphite is better, but far from neutral, it's basically blue gray.

dfiler · Mar 18, 2003, 12:38 PM

Originally posted by WombatPredator:
Wouldn't a system-wide metal appearance piss off all the graphic designers who rely on something neutral for color correction?

Perhpaps. However, the brushed metal is actually pretty neutral in both luminance and color.

The bright white of aqua can be quite distracting when working on content with black backgrounds. The high contrast of platinum GUI stripes can also be visually heavy next to large areas of featureless content. Brushed metal can be distracting when placed next to work comprised of mostly white space...

For fun... go back and look at the pre-Platinum MacOS. It is far more distracting and visually obtrusive than brushed metal. Brushed metal has far lower contrast, providing a softer, less eye- catching look.

invisibleX · Mar 18, 2003, 12:39 PM

Anyone aware that this is likely to happen about the same time hell freezes over? Apple has done great things with Aqua, its far more likely they'll update the look and feel of Aqua than switch to metal.

stew · Mar 18, 2003, 12:48 PM

Originally posted by Terri:
I just want a real neutral color theme. An updated platinum would be nice. At least metal is neutral.

Except, of course, the three gumdrop buttons and the blue scrollbars...brushed metal is just as colorful as Aqua, don't kid yourselves. All it does is replace gray pintripes with gray brushstripes.

Terri · Mar 18, 2003, 12:59 PM

Originally posted by stew:
Except, of course, the three gumdrop buttons and the blue scrollbars...brushed metal is just as colorful as Aqua, don't kid yourselves. All it does is replace gray pintripes with gray brushstripes.

Well at least it isn't so damn bright.

While we are at it I would love to turn off the pulsing default buttons.

Here is annoying, it's Golive's FTP window. It either pulsing connect or disconnect.

I used to leave it open all the time under System 9, but under X it just pulses and pulses, your are getting sleepy�

mitchell_pgh · Mar 18, 2003, 01:02 PM

all metal = Bad
UI "bump" = Good

I'm a little tired of the pin stripes. I would rather see them just white...

pat++ · Mar 18, 2003, 01:03 PM

I hope this is not true. Brushed Metal sucks. It's like any other user interface. Aqua is unique, and a lot of people think about Aqua when you speak with them about OS X.

dfiler · Mar 18, 2003, 01:45 PM

Originally posted by stew:
Except, of course, the three gumdrop buttons and the blue scrollbars...brushed metal is just as colorful as Aqua, don't kid yourselves. All it does is replace gray pintripes with gray brushstripes.

Uhhh... maybe i'm missing something but... you have noticed the option to make the gumdrops and scroll-thumbs gray right?

'This car sucks! It doesn't have headlights!' (or maybe you should just turn them on)

While taste is in the mouth of the beholder, brushed metal has less contrast than do the Platinum or pre-Platinum MacOSes. Internal contrast that is. If you're editing aliased fonts on a white background, than this content would contrast less with Platinum and pre-Platinum than it would with brushed metal. However, there would also be less distinction between window content and the GUI.

Apple has done an excellent job of updating their GUI design to work unobtrusively with the predominent type of content presented in their GUIs. As anti-aliased text becomes the norm, widgets and GUI elements will need less contrast between adjacent pixels. That is, the widgets and windows will need to be redesigned if they are to have the same visual relationship with content that we've grown accustom to.

cpac · Mar 18, 2003, 01:46 PM

A few thoughts:

(1) this will never happen to the exclusion of Aqua - too much has been invested in Aqua to get rid of it entirely.

(2) this couldn't really be implemented as a "System Appearance" thing since there are basic differences in how metal and aqua work - not to mention the difference in toolbar items etc.

(3) if anything I'd guess they'd switch Sherlock, Mail, and and the Finder to metal thus giving the appearance of all-metal builds, but again this would be strange as there are very few (Backup and ???) metal apps that use a toolbar, and usually this switch requires at least some tweaking of icons and whatnot

More likely wold be an Aqua based adjustment - replaceing the white with a darker shade of grey or something - adding an appearance option akin to 9, but based on aqua rather than metal.

gorgonzola · Mar 18, 2003, 01:58 PM

Does LoopRumors have any credibility at all?

I'm really asking. I've never heard of them before, so I'm not sure whether this is even worth discussing.

If they have some credibility, though, my vote is that going all metal would be the worst thing ever. Gross. GROSS.

ckohler · Mar 18, 2003, 02:29 PM

Apple has been urging developers to make their apps look Aqua-esqe for years now. Most have spent an exorbitant amount of development time doing just that. I find it hard to believe Apple would risk pissing off developers by changing the whole look again.

Think of all the apps that look Aqua but actually use custom aqua-like widgets. Drive10 comes to mind. All of a sudden, they would stick out like a sore thumb.

Bobby · Mar 18, 2003, 02:43 PM

Originally posted by techtrucker:
Like I said I do like the metal appearance, but picturing everything in metal (finder, etc) makes me ill. I hear Mail might be going metal...not so sure I like that idea...

Steve W

I actually enabled Metalfizer to turn my Mail to Brushed Metal... It's one of the interface apps i feel should be metal...

pat++ · Mar 18, 2003, 03:02 PM

Originally posted by Bobby:
I actually enabled Metalfizer to turn my Mail to Brushed Metal... It's one of the interface apps i feel should be metal...

NO WAY.

Terri · Mar 18, 2003, 03:03 PM

What we need is themes.

Trying to have one look that everyone likes is like to find a color that everyone should paint their house.

pat++ · 03:54 PM

Originally posted by Terri:
What we need is themes.

Trying to have one look that everyone likes is like to find a color that everyone should paint their house.

I think themes are BAD. They just confuse the user : In many cases, users will have difficulties finding what they want if they use serveral machines with different themes.
I guess this a a good reason for Apple to stick with ONE appearance only (well in fact we have 2 now, and it's bad...)

VEGAN · Mar 18, 2003, 04:06 PM

Originally posted by Patton76:
From Looprumours:

It appears that Apple is going to upgrade MacOS X to version 10.3 codenamed "Panther," the next major revision of its operating system, this Fall. Improvements are said to be as follows:

System-wide metal interface

Support for 64-Bit architecture

QuickTime 6.5

iChat 2.0 with videoconferencing capabilities

Final Safari release 1.0 GM

Updated iApps (possible inclusion of iWorks?)

Enhanced Dock features

Overall system speed enhancements

Optimized for the new systems

What I'm the most afraid of is that the "Overall system speed enhancements" means really "Buy a faster machine coz it's not gonna get any faster on what you've got"!

VEGAN · Mar 18, 2003, 04:09 PM

Originally posted by pat++:
I think themes are BAD. They just confuse the user : In many cases, users will have difficulties finding what they want if they use serveral machines with different themes.
I guess this a a good reason for Apple to stick with ONE appearance only (well in fact we have 2 now, and it's bad...)

I disagree with you. I'm using the Milk theme and I love it for it's neutral colour. And I can't possibly see why any one would be "lost" if they had to use my Mac instead of their own. Granted, the colours look different but that pretty much all.

voodoo · Mar 18, 2003, 04:09 PM

Originally posted by gorgonzola:
Does LoopRumors have any credibility at all?

I'm really asking. I've never heard of them before, so I'm not sure whether this is even worth discussing.

If they have some credibility, though, my vote is that going all metal would be the worst thing ever. Gross. GROSS.

Yup. They may be craptacular, but they have delivered so far. Like 7/10 times.

Developer · Mar 18, 2003, 04:18 PM

I recently had a nightmare where all apps were metal. I think it was after I tried the Mellel word processor.

tikki · Mar 18, 2003, 04:24 PM

Originally posted by Bobby:
I actually enabled Metalfizer to turn my Mail to Brushed Metal... It's one of the interface apps i feel should be metal...

Ick. I like Mail because it is an Apple application with a true Aqua interface.

Adam Betts · Mar 18, 2003, 04:30 PM

Originally posted by Developer:
I recently had a nightmare where all apps were metal. I think it was after I tried the Mellel word processor.

I have the exact feeling! I totally love brushed metal but it's good for few, not all.

I'd really love to see a "mini" version of brushed metal for pro apps such as Photoshop, FCP, DVD Studio Pro, etc etc. It would rock so much.

Anomalous · Mar 18, 2003, 04:53 PM

I have seen on other rumors sites that Mail is going metal. I too prefer Aqua.

Fallout · Mar 18, 2003, 05:02 PM

Almost anything would be better than Aqua with those ****ing pinstripes.

OreoCookie · Mar 18, 2003, 05:03 PM

I prefer Aqua for most apps. Just imagine Nisus Writer for X in metal arrgghhhh. Ugly.

Some apps like Safari look better in metal IMHO (looks more minimalistic in Safari's case).

But all metal. Nooooo.

Even Mail.app in metal, I prefer it the way it is.

Keep it roughtly this way: Simple apps, consumer apps (iApps, etc.) in metal, more sophisticated apps in Aqua.

I really love Aqua. It's so pretty. Ok, you get used to it, but every once in a while I work with Windows and Linux and these GUIs are ugly. Then I come back home ...

Agasthya · Mar 18, 2003, 06:55 PM

Originally posted by gorgonzola:
Does LoopRumors have any credibility at all?

I'm really asking. I've never heard of them before, so I'm not sure whether this is even worth discussing.

If they have some credibility, though, my vote is that going all metal would be the worst thing ever. Gross. GROSS.

I don't think they have ever been right. They've basically predicted new iPods every week. They were also wrong on the specs of the new PMG4s and Displays. 0 credibility.

lookmark · Mar 18, 2003, 07:30 PM

Actually, Textured/Brushed Metal is considered part of Aqua. It's just a different "flavor", if you will. (Applied with increasingly willy-nilly HIG.)

The idea that Textured will "replace" Aqua doesn't make much sense. The question is whether Apple will revisit and refresh Aqua with some of the aspects from Brushed Metal.

I can see this. e.g. Aqua being updated with toned-down pinstripes... or even pinstripes replaced with a mix of light gray texture and glossy white.

It'll be a slow transition, though, so I wouldn't expect this to fully happen until at least 10.4. Most Mac users still aren't even using OS X yet; besides, anything less than a slow evolution of Aqua's look and feel would be interpreted as a surrender.

KidRed · Mar 18, 2003, 08:11 PM

Just wanted tos ay not *everyone* hates brushed metal. I just care about the 64bitness as it means well for the 970. Also, speed improvements hold well for older systems too.

Bi@tch · Mar 18, 2003, 08:28 PM

Anyone thinks that "system wide" may just mean that it'll be available for cocoa and carbon.

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Mar 18, 2003, 08:40 PM

Loop rumors has been wrong on everything from day one. Everything. Don't sweat about this one rumor.

Developer · Mar 18, 2003, 08:49 PM

Originally posted by Bi@tch:
Anyone thinks that "system wide" may just mean that it'll be available for cocoa and carbon.

It is already available for both Cocoa and Carbon, but Carbon applications require a rather heavy rewrite to support the native brushed metal. That's also the reason why Apple can't possibly switch "system wide" to brushed metal. Practically none of the currently existing Carbon apps could handle it.

Weezer · Mar 18, 2003, 09:05 PM

Originally posted by Fallout:
Almost anything would be better than Aqua with those ****ing pinstripes.

Why dont you just use smooth stripes?

techtrucker · Mar 19, 2003, 06:10 AM

Originally posted by Bobby:
I actually enabled Metalfizer to turn my Mail to Brushed Metal... It's one of the interface apps i feel should be metal...

Got a screenshot you can post? Would like to see what MetalMail looks like...

Steve W

Vanquish · Mar 19, 2003, 06:39 AM

who cares ? we have themes don't we ?

dfiler · Mar 19, 2003, 07:06 AM

Originally posted by Bi@tch:
Anyone thinks that "system wide" may just mean that it'll be available for cocoa and carbon.

Metalized windows are already available to carbon apps. Carbon apps can use NeXT interface builder files for their GUI. It could also mean that Apple's custom brushed metal implementation have been replaced by their standardized libraries.

Although, LoopRumors has about the same accuracy of any random poster on these fora.

squish · Mar 19, 2003, 08:13 AM

With Platinum we had window borders that were approx. 5 pixels wide.
WIth Aqua we have borderless windows, and apple made a big point about that.
But with Brushed Metal, the ****ing window borders are like 10 pixels wide.

what gives, apple. If I wanted a huge waste of space I would buy a PC.

dfiler · Mar 19, 2003, 09:35 AM

Originally posted by squish:
But with Brushed Metal, the ****ing window borders are like 10 pixels wide.

No they aren't. They are 0 pixels wide.

cpac · Mar 19, 2003, 09:49 AM

Originally posted by dfiler:
No they aren't. They are 0 pixels wide.

um?

last I checked they were there, and pretty damn big.

Liudger · Mar 19, 2003, 10:00 AM

Originally posted by cpac:
um?

last I checked they were there, and pretty damn big.

Safari has no border

Liudger · Mar 19, 2003, 10:05 AM

Maybe they are going to support thems like they did in OS 9?
You get the option to choose between aqua and metal

Why should they throw away all the work they did with aqua theme? And why shouldn't they fulfill the request of tons of users that want metal. They have all the gui elements designed. Only just the menubar needs to be designed in metal.