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alex_kac · Apr 6, 2003, 03:53 PM

Look at the new DVD Studio Pro UI. At least from the smallish screenshots, it looks like a mix between metal, Graphite, and Aqua. I might be wrong, of course since the screenshots were kinda small

But maybe that's what Apple is going for in Panther - a mix between metal and aqua that provides a unified UI again.

Just an idea

voodoo · Apr 6, 2003, 03:58 PM

FCP has always had a rather unorthodox UI. Fugly too.

MindFad · Apr 6, 2003, 04:09 PM

I thought the same thing when I saw the new FCP4 screens.

pat++ · Apr 6, 2003, 04:14 PM

It really sucks that they continue to use non standard GUI appearance. Come'on Apple. Eat your own dog food.

OreoCookie · Apr 6, 2003, 04:42 PM

I just hope this won't be the ?metalized' interface we heard of in all the rumors. It's ugly. Plain and simple. Look at Keynote and Mail. Beautiful, that's the way GUIs are supposed to be. Powerful, yet simple and fun to use!

macaddled · Apr 6, 2003, 05:00 PM

FCP really has its own interface ... there's no reason why it should look like Mail or Preview, after all. It accomplishes its goals very neatly and elegantly, IMHO. 4 looks to have only minor changes, UI wise. Looks like they got rid of the little yellow target windows on the left of the timeline, thank god.

sandsl · Apr 6, 2003, 05:02 PM

Apple isn't getting rid of Aqua. They spent alot of time and money designing Aqua to make it the master piece it is today. We'll see improvements to Aqua, but it will remain.

Brushed Metal is a new interface style, which could be changed but its more likely to remain the same or be improved slightly.

Pro Apps eg. Final Cut Pro and DVD Studio Pro have always had different UIs from the rest of the system, and I like the new design, certainly better than the last. Apple must have a good reason to use an unnorthodox UI in its pro apps otherwise it would use Aqua.

a holck · Apr 6, 2003, 05:32 PM

It does indeed look like It's a new system wide interface:
http://www.apple.com/dvdstudiopro/ne...-indexcall.jpg
Notice the standard toolbar, and checkboxes
Also notice the releasedate:
August
Panther should be released late august early september according to rumors.

CharlesS · Apr 6, 2003, 05:35 PM

Could be the return of Themes.

But it's probably just yet another app with a non-standard design.

alex_kac · Apr 6, 2003, 05:52 PM

They ARE apps in a non-standard design. If you notice, they all look the same. To me that's their new "Pro" theme.

So now they have:

Metal
Aqua
Pro

Pro is a mix between Metal and Aqua - I like it, personally.

The question is, is it indicative of where Apple is going with Panther? I said nothing of Apple getting rid of Aqua - if you look, Aqua still exists. Its just not as white as before...

And again, the key word is "indicative".

Chris Grande · Apr 6, 2003, 06:09 PM

Here is a closer look:

alex_kac · Apr 6, 2003, 06:14 PM

One possibility, looking at that photo more - is that Graphite in Panther may mak much more of a difference than it does now. Whereas now it just colors the widgets grey, in Panther it may tone down ALL the areas.

The tabs are grey, the popup menu, window title, etc...

Socially Awkward Solo · Apr 6, 2003, 06:42 PM

ugly, Apple can do better then that for 10.3

sandsl · Apr 6, 2003, 07:06 PM

Originally posted by alex_kac:
One possibility, looking at that photo more - is that Graphite in Panther may mak much more of a difference than it does now. Whereas now it just colors the widgets grey, in Panther it may tone down ALL the areas.

The tabs are grey, the popup menu, window title, etc...

Possible, and I'd quite like the option.

ugly, Apple can do better then that for 10.3

I don't think its that ugly...don't make up your mind before you've used or seen it in action people!

a holck · Apr 6, 2003, 07:20 PM

Well it seems like Livetype of FCP has the same graphite interface and it's available from June. So it's all a big hack.

Look at this Screenshot:
http://a208.g.akamai.net/7/208/51/ad...ce04042003.jpg

Blue Apple menu!

alex_kac · Apr 6, 2003, 07:23 PM

I never said the screenshots were of Panther.

YES, the UI in these pro apps are custom. That is NOT the point.

The point is not the technical aspects of what is or not - its the artistic aspect. Are these new Pro UIs <b>indicative</B> of where the Panther designers are going?

We've heard the rumors of an all metal interface. That may be so. But its also possible that its not metal - just a mix or something entirely different. But the question is - are we seeing a piece of that now?

For example, OS 9 never had a metal interface. Yet QuickTime/iTunes had a custom skin that gave it metal. It still does. But now, OS X.2 has metal built in.

LeeG · Apr 6, 2003, 07:45 PM

They are finally "Aquafying" the previously functional but ugly FCP interface - at least thats how I see it.

This prog looks professional, and the UI is not distracting, but it just seems to look like it belongs with other OSX apps more than before...

my $0.02

Lee

BuonRotto · Apr 6, 2003, 08:01 PM

Since the appearance of all these things except their color (well, and the pinstriping in the title bars) is identical to Aqua, It might suggest a new theming approach option for 10.3. Like the iApps though, it might have some (poorly defined?) UI guidelines for its implementation instead, say for "pro" apps. I bet that would make Adobe happy for the new appearance if irked with another one to hack together. (I bet Adobe doesn't take full advantage of IB which would make the change much easier to make.)

I think Apple is more interested in making theming something more purposeful than arbitrary, even if they haven't done a convincing job of that yet.

LightWaver-67 · Apr 6, 2003, 08:28 PM

They look different because they ARE different...!

What do I mean...? FCP existed as a different application BEFORE Apple bought the company (I forget the details) and they did what they could at the time to "Brand" it as an Apple product without touching the UI (much) to 'get it out the door' to the masses. This-time around, they took it a bit further into the UI and made an effort to give an Aqua-esque flava? to the UI... but not to disturb too-much of the UI that most users were accostomed to. I love the mid-level-compromise.

I can't WAIT to upgrade...! DVD Studio Pro looks like they tried to keep consistent with the efforts they made to FCP.

I'm sure if they "Started From Scratch"... they'd look more Aqua-like... but they had to work with existing code, UI, and so-on.

DeathMan · Apr 6, 2003, 08:41 PM

I would love to see this as an option. I would use it. Aqua can seem too bright at times (go into high contrast mode for a while (ctr-opt-8) for a while, and switch back and you'll see the difference. Its pretty bright.

I think this theme looks good (although I'd like to see a high quality screenshot of things) but I think its a keeper and should be an option. I don't love the brushed metal interface, but I can accept it. I would much rather see this developed further and brought in as a system wide interface.

Its exactly what the anti-aqua people are asking for. Neutral, not too bright, etc, but it is definately aquaesque. It has pro written all over it.

SupahCoolX · Apr 6, 2003, 08:51 PM

I think you're all reading way too much into this. They're just making a dull, neutral gray color for pros who are sensitive to color balance and such in their work. That's why they're using this custom look to these Pro apps. I highly doubt we'll see something this dull as a standard, consumer GUI.

undotwa · Apr 6, 2003, 09:07 PM

I dub this interface: Dark Aqua.

Aqua (Standard App)
Dark Aqua (Professional App)
Metal Aqua ('Lifestyle' App whatever that is)

Nebagakid · Apr 6, 2003, 09:58 PM

Well, in those Quick Tour movies, the menu bar is not at the top of the screen, but attachted to the top of the windows of the program it sorta looks like....ugh...windows

seriously, take a look!

BuonRotto · Apr 6, 2003, 10:27 PM

All the screenshots show the menu bar at the top of the screen, typical OS X menubar pinstripes and all.

On second thought, I think the idea is just to make the older apps look more metal-like. Look at the screenshot for Compressor:

Looks like brushed metal.

Superchicken · Apr 6, 2003, 10:48 PM

Personally I'd like to see apple use this sorta design as the new platinum. I like Aqua but to be perfectly honest it doesn't really feel right to me to be using Aqua for things like Photoshop. I'd love to see an option to seperately toggle different UIs for each app... never gona happen of course but it'd be nice.... oh well I'll live... besides I'd rather they use their time fixing up the OS's edges instead of worrying about theams and junk.

By the way the new apps look freakin sweet.

DBvader · Apr 7, 2003, 12:15 AM

i like aqua the way it is. i think if apple switches ui looks so fast, people would just see it is a gimmick.

Socially Awkward Solo · Apr 7, 2003, 02:10 AM

You guys do know that ALL of these apps Apple bought and ported themselves right?

JLL · Apr 7, 2003, 02:39 AM

Originally posted by BuonRotto:
Looks like brushed metal.

But notice that instead of brushed metal it's just gray.

Sven G · 05:40 AM

Originally posted by Chris Grande:
Here is a closer look:

Here (DVD Studio Pro 2), BTW, is probably the first example of left-aligned "real" (pseudo-)Aqua tabs in an Apple product: this would be coherent, for example, with the "new" style of the tabs in Safari, if it became an option at the system level. (Personally, I think the centered ones look better, however.)

Of course, the best thing would be to have at least some basic customisability for the whole GUI behaviour, together with some basic themes (such as the ones previously described in this thread).

Also, I think the individual windows and palettes in these new screenshots should be "dockable" (in the traditional, Windows meaning) into a single, full-screen window with several, resizable internal panes (see also Maxon's Cinema 4D app); this would (optionally) make things look a little more organised an save some screen real estate wasted by window widgets and title bars: just another GUI behaviour that should (IMHO) - similarly to tabs - be available for all apps to which it can be applied...

Michel Fortin · Apr 7, 2003, 05:35 AM

Originally posted by Chris Grande:
Here is a closer look:

What is this? The menu bar is two times the height of the window title bar!

JLL · Apr 7, 2003, 05:45 AM

Originally posted by Sven G:
Here (DVD Studio Pro 2), BTW, is probably the first example of left-aligned "real" (pseudo-)Aqua tabs in an Apple product

No, the existing DVD Studio Pro also has left aligned tabs.

LightWaver-67 · Apr 7, 2003, 05:51 AM

Originally posted by JLL:
No, the existing DVD Studio Pro also has left aligned tabs.

Again... keep in mind... FCP and DVDSP were NOT initially created by Apple and the UI layout and metaphors had NOTHING to do with Apple's UI philosophy.

They are just-now starting to slowly address these issues.

Heck... Look at Shake's UI... they haven't TOUCHED that one yet. It's so un-Mac-like... but I bet in the next couple releases, it'll look remarkably more live FCP & DVDSP... which also may look more like Aqua or BrushedMetal or 'something' Apple-based.

There will be synergy at some-point, but it's a matter of prioritizing resources & efforts against making a profit. Give it time. It'll look Mac-like soon.

JLL · Apr 7, 2003, 05:59 AM

Originally posted by LightWaver-67:
Again... keep in mind... FCP and DVDSP were NOT initially created by Apple and the UI layout and metaphors had NOTHING to do with Apple's UI philosophy.

I know - I just answered Sven.

BTW. DVDSP was created by Apple, but the programmers came from Astarte - AFAIK it was not an Astarte product.

With regards to Aqua and the new apps, I noticed that the new Compressor has a brushed metal like interface, but with a plain grey surface.

LightWaver-67 · Apr 7, 2003, 06:30 AM

Originally posted by JLL:
I know - I just answered Sven.

BTW. DVDSP was created by Apple, but the programmers came from Astarte - AFAIK it was not an Astarte product.

With regards to Aqua and the new apps, I noticed that the new Compressor has a brushed metal like interface, but with a plain grey surface.

Interesting... I did not know Apple built DVDSP... I thought they ported it... but what do I know...?

Either way... I kinda DIG the hybrid "Graphaqua" or "Aquite" look to the new apps. I hope the "Pro" apps keep that 'neutral' look. I like it.

Zimphire · Apr 7, 2003, 06:40 AM

The problem with Aqua as we know it now is, if it hasn't already, it will become dated. Aqua will change soon, or in the near future.

Sven G · 07:55 AM

Originally posted by JLL:
No, the existing DVD Studio Pro also has left aligned tabs.

Yes, but they are in the "classic" Final Cut Pro style, as can be seen here (version 1.5 above, and 2.0 below):

What I really meant is that in DVD Studio Pro 2 the tabs look like the "real" Aqua ones, but are left-aligned: probably, it only derives from the adaptation of the previous interface (see above) - but, again, who knows, maybe there could be some GUI news (see more customisation) coming from Apple...

dfiler · Apr 7, 2003, 07:33 AM

Originally posted by LightWaver-67:
Again... keep in mind... FCP and DVDSP were NOT initially created by Apple and the UI layout and metaphors had NOTHING to do with Apple's UI philosophy.

They are just-now starting to slowly address these issues.
...
There will be synergy at some-point, but it's a matter of prioritizing resources & efforts against making a profit. Give it time. It'll look Mac-like soon.

This first point can not be stressed enough. Apple did not set out to design a different interface. They inherited a different interface when they bought these programs (companies).

Yet I�m not convinced that we will ever see FCP and Shake ever aqua-fied or metalized. Once software has established a professional user-base, interface changes can be met with considerable resistance. While a revised interface might be more consistent and theoretically more efficient, users would have to re-learn how to do things. Or perhaps, more accurately, they would have to forget their current habits.

Video professionals who have spent 12 hours a day, 7 days a week using the current interface, have little desire for an �improved� interface. Quark is an excellent example of this phenomenon. Its interface is generally ridiculed but well understood by the entire publishing industry. I�m not saying that FCP and Shake have bad interfaces, only that, professional-level application-GUIs have considerable momentum.

- - e r i k - - · Apr 7, 2003, 07:48 AM

Nothing to see here people.

This is just an aquafization of the previous functional interfaces of FCP and DVD-studio pro, which I have nothing against.

What bothers me though is that there's no coherency in Shake 3 and Logic, the two other apps in their pro lineup.

Shake 3 has a downright ugly shade of gray, and the tabs still look like poop.

However that's nothing compared to Logic, which uses bastardized gum-drop buttons in a multitude of colors. The audio-market have a complete shitload of crap GUI-history in both apps and plugins though, only rivaled by themed MP3-players.

My hope would be that under Apple, these things would be sorted out. but alas.

Custom interfaces: Just say NO!

Lew · Apr 7, 2003, 07:59 AM

Originally posted by Michel Fortin:
What is this? The menu bar is two times the height of the window title bar!

Looks like a palette rather than a normal window. Compare these 2 images (bear in mind though that the second image has been scaled up slightly) and you'll see that a palette's title bar is about half the depth of the menu bar.

- - e r i k - - · Apr 7, 2003, 08:03 AM

Originally posted by GFive:
Looks like a palette rather than a normal window. Compare these 2 images (bear in mind though that the second image has been scaled up slightly) and you'll see that a palette's title bar is about half the depth of the menu bar.

This is normal behaviour of Pro-apps. Window titlebars are pallette-sized to minimize the space the actual GUI takes up. All titlebars in FCP are like this.

SubGeniux · Apr 7, 2003, 09:16 AM

Shakes interface is a dream to use,but nowhere near as good as combustion, or any of the other Discreet compositing software. I don't know, but I've worked in films n tv for years doing compositing and animation, and generaly, most of the programs have had a customised interface different to what the OS is. This usually works for us cause of colour registration and other reasons. Take for example Softimage XSI, it's, for me, the best 3d animation packahge ever created, fart better than Maya, and miles ahead in interface design, Infact, Aquafying a program like XSI would hinder it, Maya is one of the best around, but the interface is hindered by Aqua, in my opinion.

Take a look at After Effects,great app, but lowsy interface, then have a try of cumbustion, the darkened grey interface realy help. It has to be seen to be believed.

anyhoo, that's just my view fro using these programs in a production environment

sub

SubGeniux · Apr 7, 2003, 09:20 AM

damn, look at my typos from my last post, all in the wrong places too. lol

Em, I think Aqua(stripes) is gorgeous for an OS, I really would prefer Apple to tidy it up, enhance the performance underneath and be creative in what it puts in, the whole shopping idea in the OS would be a mistake, if I want to buy anything, I'll use safari, why not just give us bookmarks?

OreoCookie · Apr 7, 2003, 03:53 PM

I don't mind the integration of ?buy this' as long as it remains clear what will be charged for and what not.

I think the idea of a music download is great, at least from the stuff I have read all over the net (being able to burn the music to CD, listen to it on the iPod).

clarkgoble · Apr 7, 2003, 05:39 PM

I hope that's not the interface. I hated that grey "platinum" look that Sys8 and Sys9 had. The one thing I loved about OSX over older versions of Windows or the Mac was that it *doesn't* have grey regions everywhere for no apparent reason. I'm no fan of brushed metal, but at least it has some texture instead of plain grey.

Everytime I run a classic app I remember what I hated about that whole period of the Mac OS.

Michael_Jackson · Apr 7, 2003, 06:41 PM

One thing that I noticed is that the widget things (close, minimise, maximise) seem to have a "flat" look to them, especially when compared to those currently implemented in the Jaguar UI.

Adam Betts · Apr 7, 2003, 07:25 PM

Originally posted by Michael_Jackson:
One thing that I noticed is that the widget things (close, minimise, maximise) seem to have a "flat" look to them, especially when compared to those currently implemented in the Jaguar UI.

Yeah I noticed that too. I like it better than the "ball" one we currently have in Jaguar.

iconizer · Apr 7, 2003, 09:40 PM

Hey, that looks like a Windows attempt to make something in aqua style...

I hope they're not going to use that for something else... And I don't think they'll do... Studio Pro has always been a little ugly.

wes

allap · Apr 7, 2003, 11:07 PM

I don't see the point in changing the UI. Aqua and Brushed are both really nice, tried and true interfaces (it doesn't get old like most themes do). Except the rounded edges on the title bar, god i hate those!!!

SubGeniux · Apr 8, 2003, 07:17 AM

yeah, I know what you mean. I love the sriped Aqua look, it just seems perfect for me, a good balance of colour and design. Going back to OS 9 is funny cause it looks and feels so clunky compared to X, even the brushed metal look is a bit too much for me. Have any if you tried using Safari with the striped aqua look? It feels so much leaner and cleaner. Then again, I think the option could be there for people who like to tinker. I'm pretty much happy with the look of X though, would like to see them keep the current interface but maybe refine it a bit more (less ball shaped widgets on the title bar), and do lots of enhancements underneath.

sub

ShotgunEd · Apr 8, 2003, 07:29 AM

I'd think the pro theme would be pretty cool. Like a T1000esque liquid metal.