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JB72 · Apr 17, 2003, 12:19 AM

Just FYI, some guy guy hacked the X server to use OpenGL as a graphics driver.

970 · Apr 17, 2003, 12:24 AM

Awesome...but Linux is still butt-ugly.

Alot of the time I think Linux fell down the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down.

superblue · Apr 17, 2003, 12:31 AM

TransluXent?!?!!? Bit of a mouthful!

Stratus Fear · Apr 17, 2003, 12:52 AM

Originally posted by 970:
Awesome...but Linux is still butt-ugly.

Alot of the time I think Linux fell down the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down.

Linux holds functionality over form. Although, if you look around, you can find a decent looking window manager for XWindows.

moki · Apr 17, 2003, 01:22 AM

Originally posted by JB72:
Just FYI, some guy guy hacked the X server to use OpenGL as a graphics driver.

Like many OSS projects, this one is not complete, and also isn't directly analogous to QE -- looks interesting, though.

It also has no buffer management currently, so once your card runs out of VRAM, I'm sure things get ugly quick.

RooneyX · Apr 17, 2003, 02:36 AM

But Linux is snappy anyway.

JB72 · Apr 17, 2003, 08:36 PM

Originally posted by moki:
...and also isn't directly analogous to QE

How do you mean?

ink · Apr 18, 2003, 12:33 PM

Originally posted by 970:
Awesome...but Linux is still butt-ugly.

Alot of the time I think Linux fell down the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down.

Meh.

Linux is beautiful, if you want it to be. It can be fast instead of beautiful, if you want it to be also.

"It's what's on the INSIDE that counts..."

sniffer · Apr 18, 2003, 02:52 PM

Originally posted by ink:

"It's what's on the INSIDE that counts..."

LOL.. Yeah, but for an OS the GUI have a finger in the game also.

Athens · Apr 19, 2003, 01:33 AM

I like to point out LINUX isnt ugly, it depends on what GUI you install such as Gnome or KDE. Whats missing is something nice like the Finder.

Remove the finder, Gnome or KDE and what you have is all the same, command line DOS like system.

Jasoco · Apr 19, 2003, 03:24 AM

Linux takes too much work and smarts.

I tried many times to get many distros to install to no avail. I got it installed once, but when I logged in (No matter what WM I used) I was stuck in a Virtual Resolution of 1024x768, but the screen was at 800x600. I hate that. It's the dumbest idea I can think of. So I tried to find someplace in all the confusing menus to find a control panel to change the resolution to a real 800x600 or 1024x768, but it was nowhere to be found.

I give up.

The reall geeks can have Linux. I'll be a mini-geek and just use my OS X box.. uh.. dome.

Coxy · Apr 19, 2003, 09:06 AM

Originally posted by Athens:
I like to point out LINUX isnt ugly, it depends on what GUI you install such as Gnome or KDE. Whats missing is something nice like the Finder.

Remove the finder, Gnome or KDE and what you have is all the same, command line DOS like system.

The Finder is not a window manager.

Besides, you should face facts. Gnome and KDE aren't all that bad (especially not when compared to other *nix X servers), but every single app is universally ugly and shoddy.

When the bunches of idiots actually get together and enforce some standardisation in UI and app behaviour, let me know.

DaedalusDX · Apr 19, 2003, 11:53 AM

Originally posted by Coxy:
The Finder is not a window manager.

Besides, you should face facts. Gnome and KDE aren't all that bad (especially not when compared to other *nix X servers), but every single app is universally ugly and shoddy.

When the bunches of idiots actually get together and enforce some standardisation in UI and app behaviour, let me know.

I guess the point is that Mac OS X has one that Linux has always lacked... consistency.

It does make sense though... a large open source project like that with lots of influence from lots of programmers all over the world... its great in many ways, but consistency is lacking.

Mac OS, on the other hand, was developed by one company and under (relatively) strict UI guidelines that got hammered out really early in the process. So we can copy and paste between apps without any hassle... Mac OS X apps all behave basically the same... and we get stuff like Quartz Extreme which is polished and optimized enough for everyday use.

Linux is great for what it is though. Its definitely a testament on the virtues of open source.

On the other hand, Mac OS X shows the benefits of some closed source (all the goodies with Quartz, the UI in general, etc).

K++ · Apr 19, 2003, 01:49 PM

Gnome and KDE are butt ugly, one tried to be windows XP, and the other tries to be a slightly better looking windows 95. The problem is I despise both OSes and Linux is designed to not be easy to use. You have to fight against it in order to make it so. For example The windowing system is not part of the OS, its a application that is made by a third party. The drivers are rarely made by device manuafacturers they are made by hackers in thier spare time.

So you can neither assume all the features of device Z to work, You have a windowing system that can be run a myriad of ways, either from startx or as a init script with an annoying login manager, and on top of it all, you have help documentation that both sucks and changes from distribution to distribution. LInux is and always will be a tinkerers OS.

PS. Making it pretty is not worth the trouble you must invest. Trust me, I install from scratch then configure, configure, configure, till it looks presentable, then add the bells and whistles.

JB72 · Apr 19, 2003, 05:07 PM

I agree with K++. I've given in to the Linux temptation a few times and found it not worth my efforts, which were substantial. The OS fights against you. It takes too much time to get it right, and it's too easy to have it go bad. I see very little reason to use Linux on the desktop at this point. Still, I'm glad it's out there for those who want it.

mdc · Apr 19, 2003, 05:24 PM

Originally posted by JB72:
It takes too much time to get it right

too true. i tried a couple of distros but linux just got to me.

i have always wanted to try and get away from windows, just to see if it is actually possible, and mac OS is the only OS i have been able to do it with.

JB72 · Apr 20, 2003, 02:09 AM

Originally posted by mdc:
i have always wanted to try and get away from windows, just to see if it is actually possible, and mac OS is the only OS i have been able to do it with.

A couple of years ago I got the server bug (my DSL got me started) so I put together a cheap PC. I tried a whole bunch of distros, but each one had quirks I wasn't able to live with. Installing software was mostly a nightmare. Finally I snapped and went out and bought a refurb iMac, slapped the the then new 10.0 on it, and it's served me almost flawlessly ever since.

Linux really needs to get it's stuff together. There needs to be some kind of real set of desktop standards.

Mac OS X is just the only OS I can deal with for any length of time. I can't stand OS 9 either.

Sven G · Apr 20, 2003, 02:16 AM

Originally posted by DaedalusDX:
I guess the point is that Mac OS X has one that Linux has always lacked... consistency.

... Hmmm, hmmm...

... Those "fishy" metal apps haven't seen Aqua for a long time!...

Consistency in OS X should indeed be a much more "fresh", and "fully automatic" (see the character above) thing!

Of course, it's still better than Linux on this front, in general - but KDE (and also GNOME), in particular, IMO, is getting better and better, and has many "power user" features that OS X should get ASAP...

asmodeus · Apr 20, 2003, 03:16 AM

Originally posted by Coxy:
When the bunches of idiots actually get together and enforce some standardisation in UI and app behaviour, let me know.

http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gup/hig/1.0/.

On my PC I rarely have any trouble with Redhat, though I'd be using FreeBSD if it properly supported the digital output on my Soundblaster Live.

Still, I rarely touch it as a desktop, I use OS X for that. Pretty much the only thing I use it for is music and Java development (until Eclipse on OSX is improved).

Coxy · Apr 20, 2003, 08:00 AM

*Enforce*.
That's right, enforce.

I have **NEVER** seen an X program that was nice to use, good on the eyes and comparable as far as control and UI goes with the vast majority Mac OS applications.

For some things, you're better off using Windows.
Oh well.

Sven G · Apr 20, 2003, 12:30 PM

Originally posted by Coxy:
I have **NEVER** seen an X program that was nice to use, good on the eyes and comparable as far as control and UI goes with the vast majority Mac OS applications.

Exaggerated...

foobars · Apr 20, 2003, 01:42 PM

nevermind...

Jasoco · Apr 20, 2003, 02:34 PM

Originally posted by Sven G:
Exaggerated...

You got that right.

I'd like to see an example of what an attractive eye-pleasing app DOES look like.