[badtz]

When I go to sleep.....

I usually turn off my Mac .....

then turn it on again when I wake up [and leave it on all day].....


is it better to do this? or to put it to sleep when I go to sleep instead?

would it save electricity? etc. etc.

thanks for any info.

[MindFad]

Sleep is practically like turning it off anyhow. I think only a very tiny, tiny amount of juice is used while it's asleep. And the more you turn it on and off, the more wear-and-tear, I hear. I've had my dual-800 technically "on" for about 17 months now. Sometimes it's on for a few days if I'm rendering/downloading stuff, but I usually only put it to sleep when I'm not using it for more than a few hours (like going to bed, or being out all day).

[SSharon]

on a similar note, is it bad to leave my g4 running for over a month straight without ever restarting it?

[MindFad]

If it needs to be on for web serving and such, then it's doing its purpose. If you're just letting it sit there and do nothing, it's probably time to put 'er to sleep every now and then.

[WJMoore]

I agree with MindFad and so does Apple. See my post in the iMac forum: http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.p...=2#post1364040

[badtz]

Is there anyway for the mac to know to put the HD to sleep when there's no activity?

I set my display to sleep after 15 minutes ....

& the HD to "never" because when I leave it on N amount of minutes .... it'll disconnect whatever I'm downloading @ the moment .

Is there anyway for it to auto-detect when there's no more activity, and THEN go to sleep?

[WJMoore]

The hard disk does go to sleep (spins down) when there is no activity if you have, "Put the hard disk to sleep when possible", checked in the Energy Saver preference pane. This will not cause you to loose any connections.

On the other hand if you are actually talking about the Put the computer to sleep option, which I suspect you might be, then no there is no way of making it stay awake if you are downloading etc. Apps can stop it gong to sleep if they are written to do so, I think DVD Player and iCal alerts do this.

Wesley

[Cipher13]

Keeping it on and running is better than sleeping, and sleeping is better than shutting down.

However, keeping a machine running uses more power, of course.

In the case of CRT iMacs (slot loaders especially), I would recommend against deep sleeping, due to the analogue board problems...

[ngrundy]

Sleep is good. Your body only turns itself off once you sleep every other time.

I just let my powerbook sleep it wakes in 3 seconds or so compared to the 3mins it takes to boot at times. If all the hardware in a computer was hotswapable then Shutdown would almost be useless, just sleep and restart.

Something worth noting is that a computer draws the most power when it turns on as it takes more power to do things like spin a disks up than to keep it spinning.

[SSharon]

thanks for the nice quote from the apple pdf. I do let it sleep when no apps are using the HD, but lets say its sleeping and a login remotely, does it wake up? If the HD spins down can it still have all the web stuff running? What if I let it run SETI that can keep its entire data set in ram and just hog cpu so will that effect sleep at all aside from every 10 hours when it wants a new data set? thanks.

[ngrundy]

when a system is asleep it's not doing anything. There is power to the RAM to keep the contents in it and power to the USB subsystem to get a keyboard keypress so it knows when to wake up.

if i remember the documentation on the PowerBooks it takes less than 1watt of energy when asleep. from the sleep state the cpu takes about 5 miliseconds to come back to full power. Also in the laptops the cpus have a 'light sleep' mode. after a few seconds of inactivity the cpu will go into a sleep mode and takes about 2 usec to come back to full operating mode.

[Mediaman_12]

It depends where your Mac is, and how tolerable you are to lights at night.
I would love to just have my G4 just 'sleep' instead of shutting it down at night (mmmm instant on!), but the giant pulsating LED on both the G4 and the monitor illuminated my entire bedroom making it impossible to sleep.

[ngrundy]

Originally posted by Mediaman_12:
It depends where your Mac is, and how tolerable you are to lights at night.
I would love to just have my G4 just 'sleep' instead of shutting it down at night (mmmm instant on!), but the giant pulsating LED on both the G4 and the monitor illuminated my entire bedroom making it impossible to sleep.

It's amazing what a post-it note can fix

[snerdini]

The only time I ever shut my machines down anymore is when I leave for an extended vacation (more than a couple of days). Any other time, I just sleep...even my iBook. I let it sleep during the day while I'm at work - and I usually still have about 95% battery when I get home. It's just way too convenient to be able to open the lid and go!

[sgrup]

is there a way of waking up from sleep when trying to access the computer remotely, ssh say - i keep my office desktop on (not on sleep) because i want to be able to access it from home, but i'd rather have it sleep if possible sometimes because it's getting a bit old now

s

[Rainy Day]

is there a way of waking up from sleep when trying to access the computer remotely

No, that's not possible. Unlike a ring on the telephone line, which can be used as a trigger to wake a sleeping computer, network activity is constantly going on. The CPU has to be active to look for calls to it's IP address for that SSH connection.

Your best bet it to allow the HD to spin down (i.e. check the box for "Put the hard disk to sleep when possible.") The CPU will spin the HD back up again as soon as it's needed.

The HD, being a mechanical device, is the most likely part of your computer to fail with age (assuming a clean power line). It also accounts for a percentage of your Mac's power budget.

Also check the "Use separate time to put the display to sleep," and set the value to something relatively low (yet convenient for you). This will save some power too, although a lot more for a CRT than an LCD. If you have a CRT, this will reduce power use substantially and would even help keep the CPU cooler (if the CRT and CPU are in the same box, like in the an iMac). The display shouldn't wake when you're accessing your computer remotely, even though the HD will. This is because the display isn't needed, whereas the HD is. A CRT is probably the next likely part to fail too, so this is wise.

[Cadaver]

Just my 2¢...

My PowerBook G4 technically hasn't been "off" since I bought it in December. It's either sleeping, or it's in use.

I've restarted it for software, and I've left it in sleep for a few days at a time, but otherwise it's never actually been powered down and left that way.

[KP*]

Originally posted by Mediaman_12:
I would love to just have my G4 just 'sleep' instead of shutting it down at night (mmmm instant on!), but the giant pulsating LED on both the G4 and the monitor illuminated my entire bedroom making it impossible to sleep.

Thank you! I'm glad to know I'm not the only one with this exact problem! I mentioned it on another forum and people acted like I was crazy (someone even suggested "put a piece of electrical tape over the light" -- obviously a PC user -- like I'm going to deface my beautiful 23" monitor, or the tower). I like to leave it on sleep, though, so if the light is really driving me crazy I lean a book or something against it (a Post-It is no match for its brightness). Sometimes I wake up with an eye twitch and a headache from having it pulsing all night, though.

[badtz]

if you checck the "spin down HD whenever possible" ....


would it spin down during long downloads?

If i remember, I've tried this once, and it disconnected me from my downloads that I had going while i was asleep ....

????

[Seamus]

Oh yeah? Well how many SETI units can you crunch while in sleep mode? Viva perpetual uptimes!

[Rainy Day]

if you check the "spin down HD whenever possible" .... would it spin down during long downloads?

No.

Besides, it'll automatically spin back up again when needed.

[philm]

Hold on, no-one has mentioned the mysterious 'cron jobs' which supposedly happen in the middle of the night. I recall that if you routinely shut off overnight, these never happen and this is A Bad Thing. That's why people write software like MacJanitor to allow you to run these scripts when the computer is awake.

Phil

[coolmacdude]

Originally posted by philm:
Hold on, no-one has mentioned the mysterious 'cron jobs' which supposedly happen in the middle of the night. I recall that if you routinely shut off overnight, these never happen and this is A Bad Thing. That's why people write software like MacJanitor to allow you to run these scripts when the computer is awake.
Phil

Of course, you can also change the schedule so they happen at another time.

[SoBayJake]

is there a way of waking up from sleep when trying to access the computer remotely

No, that's not possible. Unlike a ring on the telephone line, which can be used as a trigger to wake a sleeping computer, network activity is constantly going on. The CPU has to be active to look for calls to it's IP address for that SSH connection.

Actually, you can wake your Mac from the network. Check out: http://www.macosxhints.com/article.p...20220095929695

I was able to set this up last night, even though I am behind a NAT/firewall/router. For now, I just forward anything received on a specific port to the broadcast address, wait a few seconds, and then SSH into my iMac.

I run a free dynamic IP client so I don't have to worry about the IP address changing on me.

[Rainy Day]

Actually, you can wake your Mac from the network. Check out: http://www.macosxhints.com/article.p...20220095929695

I hadn't realized Apple was implementing this in its newer Macs. Glad to see they are, even if it's still undocumented, as that means they might begin supporting it (overtly) in a future OS release.

Thanks for the link!

Edit: After doing a little Googling, i found that this already is supported in the OS. If your Mac supports this feature (which mine does not), then you'll see "Wake for network administrator access" under "Wake Options" in your Engery Saver System Preference.

It also appears that the generic name for this is "Wake on LAN," that it originated from Intel, and is on its way to becoming part of the standard for the US government's Energy Star program. Here are some links for additional reading:

• How does "Wake for network administrator access" work?
• WakeUp (Good info, plus a link for a Mac application)
• Wake up to Wake-on-LAN A whitepaper from IBM

[Old Toad]

Here's one vote for turning it off. When not in use I like to have it disconnected from power source (by surge protectors) just to be on the safe side. Call me conservative.

[badtz]

if i still want my downloads to be active throughout the night ....

what setting should i put for the "put the computer to sleep when it is inactive for ...." ???


should I put it to "NEVER"? and check the "put hard drive to sleep when possible" ??

[badtz]

[::maroma::]

Originally posted by KP*:
Thank you! I'm glad to know I'm not the only one with this exact problem! I mentioned it on another forum and people acted like I was crazy (someone even suggested "put a piece of electrical tape over the light" -- obviously a PC user -- like I'm going to deface my beautiful 23" monitor, or the tower). I like to leave it on sleep, though, so if the light is really driving me crazy I lean a book or something against it (a Post-It is no match for its brightness). Sometimes I wake up with an eye twitch and a headache from having it pulsing all night, though.

There has GOT to be a way for you to block those lights, while not "defacing" your Mac. I mean us Mac users are supposed to be the creative ones, right? Where electrical tape would work, I admit that it would be ugly. But I'm sure if you thought about it for a bit, you could solve it elegently.

Come to think of it, there might be a decent market out there for something like this. Making small "covers" for your tower and monitor lights. Personally, those lights don't bother me, but it sounds like there are those out there who could use something like this.

[KP*]

Originally posted by ::maroma:::
Come to think of it, there might be a decent market out there for something like this. Making small "covers" for your tower and monitor lights. Personally, those lights don't bother me, but it sounds like there are those out there who could use something like this.

I'm all for buying superfluous things to beautify my Mac, and if it was done well and looked cool I'd consider that. But it seems like the simplest solution would be a hack to stop the pulsating during sleep. Having the buttons glow steadily at the dimmest level of the pulse would be fine. But I have no idea how difficult it would be to program something like that.

[mike one]

leave it on all the time.

i admin 4 macs running 10.1 and 10.2
each machine has has an individual uptime of at least 45 days. including a laptop.
my ibook is always on, always, uptimes of 30 days are normal, except i tend to install a lot of crap the "requires" a restart.

from a time saving perspective it is better to leave a computer on, don't have to horse around waiting for it to start.
most problems can be solved with a re-login, should any arise, only in worse cases is a restart/shutdown necessary...

[Rainy Day]

it seems like the simplest solution would be a hack to stop the pulsating during sleep... But I have no idea how difficult it would be to program something like that.

I suspect the code would have to vary from one Mac model to the next and so would not be very easy to do. Just a guess, however.

[Nebagakid]

Originally posted by KP*:
Thank you! I'm glad to know I'm not the only one with this exact problem! I mentioned it on another forum and people acted like I was crazy (someone even suggested "put a piece of electrical tape over the light" -- obviously a PC user -- like I'm going to deface my beautiful 23" monitor, or the tower). I like to leave it on sleep, though, so if the light is really driving me crazy I lean a book or something against it (a Post-It is no match for its brightness). Sometimes I wake up with an eye twitch and a headache from having it pulsing all night, though.

For me, it is not problem, i just close my eyes, granted, i am about 13 feet away from it, and it is a calming light, a little fast for my breathing to sync into it, but i dont mind it at all... just use your natural electrical tape:
your eye lids


also, i sleep it at night, leave it running all day, and sleep it at night...my monitor is on all day (it is an old one that cannnot be controlled by the computer, so telling it to go to sleep doesn't really work, it needs to turn off!) (i web serve and stuff in case i leave work at home!)

I have not seen any problem with this and I must be doing this for 3 years now?

[badtz]

should I choose NEVER, for this setting ...

put the computer to sleep when it is inactive for ...


???

[if i want overnight downloads to continue] .....

[Rainy Day]

should I choose NEVER, for this setting ...

put the computer to sleep when it is inactive for ... ???

[if i want overnight downloads to continue] .....

As i've said previously, if a download is in progress, i don't believe the system will sleep on you.

But you could test this out so very easily: Set the sleep time to something like five minutes, begin a download you know will take at least that long, walk away for five minutes, and when you come back if it's still running, you'll know what to do.

[tooki]

Originally posted by Old Toad:
Here's one vote for turning it off. When not in use I like to have it disconnected from power source (by surge protectors) just to be on the safe side. Call me conservative.

Bad idea.

Unless you're actually unplugging it, even if the surge strip is turned off, it's not disconnecting all the conductors (hot, neutral, and ground). A lightning strike (which no surge protector can protect against -- you need a lightning arrestor for that!) can easily jump the small gap in the switch, so you're not protected against those by turning off the strip.

So to completely protect against lightning and surges, you must unplug the machine.

But both turning off at the surge strip and unplugging have a negative side effect: they cause your PRAM battery to be drained more quickly. Macs that are plugged into powered outlets continuously usually have their batteries last about 5 years. Macs that are disconnected from AC power most of the time have their batteries last half that.



As for whether to shut down or sleep... well, I like to have my systems available quickly, so I just have my PowerBook sleep, and my Blue G3 just dims its screen and spins down the drives (since I use it as a server). Since the Blue G3 doesn't support deep sleep anyway, the energy savings from dimming/spinning down are the same as when putting it to sleep. On newer systems (AGP Macs, basically) that support deep sleep, the power savings of sleep are significant; since those can be woken up over the network, there's no real reason to not use sleep. (In fact, deep sleep uses only slightly more power than shutting down.)

tooki

[Rainy Day]

Some folks live in areas with a lot of atmospheric electrical activity and, even with high quality surge suppressors, unplugging may be a good idea for that reason alone. (You should also unplug the surge suppressor, to protect it as well).

Even if the power is unplugged, however, you may have ethernet, firewire, USB or SCSI cables which may be attached to devices which are not unplugged, or you may have phone lines, which also could bring in a lightning strike. Having the power unplugged with an ethernet cable or phone line plugged in could actually cause more damage, if hit, because your computer is not grounded.

But the points raised about PRAM batteries are good ones. The bottom line is everyone's circumstances are different, so there is no single answer which is right for everyone.

[elmer]

Originally posted by philm:
Hold on, no-one has mentioned the mysterious 'cron jobs' which supposedly happen in the middle of the night. I recall that if you routinely shut off overnight, these never happen and this is A Bad Thing. That's why people write software like MacJanitor to allow you to run these scripts when the computer is awake.

Phil

So... I'm still confused. Obviously shutting off causes you to miss cron jobs. But does sleeping also cause you to miss cron jobs, or will the cron job wake the computer briefly?

[Ric_D]

Sleeping will mean that the cron jobs will be missed.

Originally posted by elmer:
So... I'm still confused. Obviously shutting off causes you to miss cron jobs. But does sleeping also cause you to miss cron jobs, or will the cron job wake the computer briefly?

[Rainy Day]

Sleeping will mean that the cron jobs will be missed.

That's what anacron is for. Available as a Fink package.