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JKT · Jul 2, 2003, 08:27 AM

Having seen the various screenshots of how Apple has implemented labels in Panther, I have just the one quibble - when selecting icons with a label in icon view, the label colour forms a halo around the outside of the highlighted icon text. To me, especially when it comes to the blue label (or grey label if using the graphite appearance), it seems pretty hard to distinguish what colour label has been added. Wouldn't it have been better if instead of just highlighting the icon label, Apple (also) used a coloured selection background in place of the grey box that currently surrounds selected icons?

Unselected icons:

Selected icons:

eno · Jul 2, 2003, 08:34 AM

Totally agreed with you man.

Not only are Panther's labels unclear, they're ugly too.

sahara · Jul 2, 2003, 09:12 AM

My problem is that they are only available in icon and column view. The only view I'd ever use them in is list view. Doesn't this bother anyone else? (Yes, already sent feedback.)

mitchell_pgh · Jul 2, 2003, 09:30 AM

Good point... Don't have panther so can't check this out for myself...

It would be nice to see the color when highlighted...

Terri · Jul 2, 2003, 09:32 AM

Originally posted by sahara:
My problem is that they are only available in icon and column view. The only view I'd ever use them in is list view. Doesn't this bother anyone else? (Yes, already sent feedback.)

WTF!!!

Yeah that would make them useless for me too.

I also do not like the fact that the menu only shows the color, but not what the color means. I do not see anyway of assigning text to the label so how would I know what the owner of the computer is using the color for.

Hopefully the Labels from Unsanity will continue working.

bewebste · Jul 2, 2003, 09:42 AM

It might be possible to highlight the box, as long as all that color didn't interfere visually with being able to see the icon itself. It could look quite strange with some icons that have holes in them.

The way it highlights the name in blue inside the label color is a little strange. Maybe this won't be so bad if they can get the box thing to work. However, I do see the reason for highlighting the label, because it is now possible to have a column view without any icons displayed, so the label is the only place to highlight. Highlighting it in the other views makes sense from the viewpoint of consistency.

As for the list view not highlighting, I'm sure that this was simply a case of not having time to implement it before the show. It'll be there in final.

mfessenden · Jul 2, 2003, 10:08 AM

Why can't the color of the folder icon change, like it used to? This doesn't seem to be much of an improvement.

JKT · Jul 2, 2003, 10:25 AM

Originally posted by mfessenden:
Why can't the color of the folder icon change, like it used to? This doesn't seem to be much of an improvement.

Because that had problems when it came to custom icons with custom colours that matched or were similar to those of the labels - it just made them plain ugly. IMO, the Jaguar approach is much better, less ugly, but has the one problem I've indicated (lack of label colour in list view notwithstanding).

Actually, one other problem - why are we limited to so few colour/labels, surely Apple could have expanded our options more?

Nonsuch · Jul 2, 2003, 10:30 AM

Originally posted by JKT:
Because that had problems when it came to custom icons with custom colours that matched or were similar to those of the labels - it just made them plain ugly.

I agree. However, Apple could've simply chosen to badge the icon with the label color; would've looked a lot nicer and been useful in list view.

JKT · Jul 2, 2003, 10:37 AM

Originally posted by Nonsuch:
I agree. However, Apple could've simply chosen to badge the icon with the label color; would've looked a lot nicer and been useful in list view.

Again, that may have problems - what if the badge covers an aspect of the icon that a user or developer wants to be visible (e.g. a logo)? I guess Apple could supply icon guidelines saying keep the bottom right corner free or something, but...

RooneyX · Jul 2, 2003, 11:18 AM

Labels X should keep working in Panther.

chabig · Jul 2, 2003, 11:30 AM

My problem is that they are only available in icon and column view. The only view I'd ever use them in is list view. Doesn't this bother anyone else? (Yes, already sent feedback.)

In OS 9, you could display the label by setting the view options. I have no doubt that Panther behaves the same way.

Chris

Wevah · Jul 2, 2003, 05:06 PM

Slightly OT: I like having icons darken on selection better than having the weird gray round-rect behind them instead...

moonmonkey · Jul 2, 2003, 07:22 PM

I disagree about coloring the background, surely that would make all icons look square, the point of having a modern icon implimentation is that we can have icons any shape we want.

Im sure labels in list view will make it into the final, it is the only view which labels are realy usefull.

I also wish when you changed the file name, the round label didn't change to the old square text input field, I like the roundness, it sets it appart from other OS's.

alex_kac · Jul 3, 2003, 05:32 PM

Has anybody tried to see if it IS in the list view in Finder, just that you have to enable that column?

clarkgoble · Jul 3, 2003, 05:52 PM

It looks like that feature hadn't finished being integrated into the Finder yet when the developer release was given out. I'm very confident it will be in the final version. Remember folks this is a preview. It is a work still under progress.

OwlBoy · Jul 3, 2003, 05:55 PM

I also hate the highlighting scheme, and the Label implementation. I think this is one thing they dont need to "modernize" it was great how it was.

-Owl

himself · Jul 4, 2003, 12:06 AM

Originally posted by Wevah:
�I like having icons darken on selection better than having the weird gray round-rect behind them instead...

I agree. If anything, the rounded rectangle surrounding a selected item/icon should be how labels are implemented. So when viewing a labeled item (unselected), the text can be labled (as is now under Panther). When selected, the background surrounding the icon displays the label color.

If anything, I would just prefer the original labels implementation (ala OS9). Yeah, it might make some custom icons a little uglier, but that's something we had to deal with in OS 9 anyway. It's either that, or deal with labels that aren't as clear.

Kissargi · Jul 4, 2003, 04:47 PM

Id rather see labels like they were in os9. I dont see why they changed it

Adam Betts · Jul 4, 2003, 05:08 PM

Originally posted by Kissargi:
Id rather see labels like they were in os9. I dont see why they changed it

Please read all of the posts here before posting. JKT provided an excellent reasons why Apple avoided that behavior.

Personally, I really like the new square box when selecting an icon. It's much more usable.

gralem · Jul 5, 2003, 10:00 PM

Originally posted by eno:
Totally agreed with you man.

Not only are Panther's labels unclear, they're ugly too.

Don't even effing start! You have your stupid labels. Stop using OS9 and SHUT UP!

---gralem

Alex Duffield · Jul 5, 2003, 10:36 PM

Originally posted by Terri:
WTF!!!

Yeah that would make them useless for me too.

I also do not like the fact that the menu only shows the color, but not what the color means. I do not see anyway of assigning text to the label so how would I know what the owner of the computer is using the color for.

Hopefully the Labels from Unsanity will continue working.

I always felt that the text that went with a label in OS9 was a bit of a problem. The text itself was changeable on a system to system basis, so if I labeled a file red on my system that would mean (IMPORTANT) but on a co workers system they assigned red to mean (CRAP) so now we are both working on the server, and he sees a bunch of files that are showing up (to him) as CRAP but I had labeled them as IMPORTANT on my system....

I am glad labels are back, but am quite happy that the text assignment is no longer available.

tooki · Jul 6, 2003, 04:08 AM

Originally posted by Adam Betts:
Please read all of the posts here before posting. JKT provided an excellent reasons why Apple avoided that behavior.
...

... and maybe kissargi, like me, disagrees with JKT!

I want OS 9-like labels back, that color the icon as well as the text, and without that goofy, pedestrian square behind the icon.

And yes, labels will need to work properly in list view.

I'm sorry that I don't agree with you OS X apologists -- the Mac didn't gain its following with the Mac OS X interface, it was with the classic Mac OS interface. It wasn't perfect, but it obviously did a lot of things right, and OS X should carry those good things on, not do them half-assed like so many of the OS 9 features that have been ported over so far.

tooki

Terri · Jul 6, 2003, 08:31 AM

I agree that Labels were far better in 9 then how I see them working in X.

I do like seeing that they change the highlight color of the name since that solves the problem of them not showing up with image preview turned on, but without being able to assign text to the color then how I am suppose to know what the color means?

Hopefully the Labels from Unsanity will continue working.

Judge_Fire · Jul 6, 2003, 05:34 PM

Originally posted by Terri:
(snip) but without being able to assign text to the color then how I am suppose to know what the color means?(/snip)

True. I've always used labels as keywords, to indicate item status, for example 'to be fixed', or 'finished'. These words did of course appear in the OS 9 list view as their own column and have been there hidden in the OS X Finder so far. (Go Unsanity, go!)

I hope OS X will someday take file metadata forward, beyond just color labels. This Panther preview gave us a view on a seriously neutered, IMHO misunderstood implementation of Labels

If OS manufacturers won't, maybe the file formats will have to evolve to do it in-file, like EXIF data in images, or the headers in MP3 files already do. Which will be a huge mess for some time and still doesn't solve file-system level items', like folders', metadata needs.

J