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:haripu: · Jul 7, 2003, 03:24 PM

I just watched a german language tv program, where apple had a presentation of the new G5 systems.

After the program the apple germany representative, Mr. Niederl�nder, took part in a chat session (still is, at the moment btw.).

asked, when panther will be released he answered: "End of the year" and then "It looks like it is going to be december".

Well, it's official. Well, almost.

-Q- · Jul 7, 2003, 03:37 PM

Interesting timing. With all the reports of a relatively stable Panther in DP1, I'm surprised it'll take so long to get out. I wonder what the delay is?

Boochie · Jul 7, 2003, 03:43 PM

They need to remove all the ugly metal interfaces from it.

Originally posted by -Q-:
Interesting timing. With all the reports of a relatively stable Panther in DP1, I'm surprised it'll take so long to get out. I wonder what the delay is?

entrox · Jul 7, 2003, 04:28 PM

The longer it takes the better it will be. I'm fine with Jaguar, so there's no need to hurry from my point of view. I'd rather be blown away by stability, speed and innovation in December then having a rushed product in August/September.

kcmac · Jul 7, 2003, 04:33 PM

As hard as it will be to wait, I am with entrox on this one. Jaguar works great for me but I should not have looked at the screenshots.

Damn that Expose will be nice. And the finder. And.....

mike one · Jul 7, 2003, 04:50 PM

Originally posted by entrox:
The longer it takes the better it will be. I'm fine with Jaguar, so there's no need to hurry from my point of view. I'd rather be blown away by stability, speed and innovation in December then having a rushed product in August/September.

totally with you on this one....
don't know if i'll upgrade my ibook600, lots of nice features. we'll have to wait and see what the speed freaks say about this upgrade.

Zadian · Jul 7, 2003, 05:02 PM

The other thing Mr. Niederl�nder (Apple Produktmanager for Germany) said was, that Panther will cost the same as Jaguar (about 160 EUR with taxes).

The TV show was "neues..." on 3SAT.

frawgz · Jul 7, 2003, 05:11 PM

But didn't Steve Jobs already tell us the official price ($129 US) along with release date September?

InBeforetheLock · Jul 7, 2003, 05:30 PM

Jobs said "end of the year" during the keynote. So December is probably it.

7Macfreak · Jul 7, 2003, 05:53 PM

i think the interface is still very incomplete and they're gonna redo the GUI some more than what we have in DP1

The Jackalope · Jul 7, 2003, 05:59 PM

Originally posted by InBeforetheLock:
Jobs said "end of the year" during the keynote. So December is probably it.

Yeah, when SJ said "by the end of the year", I immediately took that as "11:59 PM on December 31st, 2003". This IS Apple we're talking about after all.

SupahCoolX · Jul 7, 2003, 06:36 PM

Originally posted by Boochie:
They need to remove all the ugly metal interfaces from it.

They have to take out all that debug code too. Har har har.

nickm · Jul 7, 2003, 06:40 PM

Of course Panther will cost at least as much as Jaguar. The question is, will there be an upgrade price for Jaguar owners?

(I'm not holding my breath, but it would definitely make me feel better about paying full price for Jaguar.)

wtmcgee · Jul 7, 2003, 07:08 PM

i'd rather have a very polished, near perfect 10.3 when they release it than a rushed out the door buggy version that has to be patched up to work well.

december is fine with me, as long as they continue to update 10.2 until then with some bug fixes and speed bumps, etc. (mainly get the UI to be consistent - see iTunes v. iMovie v. iPhoto to see what i'm talking about. look at the close/minimize/zoom buttons on all 3)

snerdini · Jul 7, 2003, 07:27 PM

Originally posted by entrox:
The longer it takes the better it will be. I'm fine with Jaguar, so there's no need to hurry from my point of view. I'd rather be blown away by stability, speed and innovation in December then having a rushed product in August/September.

Exactly.

beb · Jul 7, 2003, 09:12 PM

If it's an $129.00 upgrade then they ought to include a free one-year subscription to .mac or a QuickTime Pro license along with it. they ought to give a QuickTime Pro license to every .mac member.

clarkgoble · Jul 7, 2003, 09:42 PM

A December date may strongly suggest that there are features to Panther that weren't stable or finished enough to include in DP1. That bodes well for those of us hoping for a new file system and the equivalent of "smart playlists" in the Finder. (As the new left hand pane certainly suggests is coming...)

snerdini · Jul 7, 2003, 11:04 PM

Originally posted by clarkgoble:
A December date may strongly suggest that there are features to Panther that weren't stable or finished enough to include in DP1. That bodes well for those of us hoping for a new file system and the equivalent of "smart playlists" in the Finder. (As the new left hand pane certainly suggests is coming...)

Jeez I hope so. I would love it if we got "smart folders" in the Finder. Best idea...ever.

lookmark · Jul 7, 2003, 11:28 PM

I've got a hunch that "smart playlists" for the Finder and extended metadata aren't coming until 10.4.

Just a hunch.

It'll take at least three months just to smooth out the bugs and wrinkles in Panther. I'd love to see another neat feature or two added in for the final release, but I'm not expecting any major new ones different from those announced at WWDC.

DeathMan · Jul 8, 2003, 02:34 AM

Originally posted by nickm:
Of course Panther will cost at least as much as Jaguar. The question is, will there be an upgrade price for Jaguar owners?

(I'm not holding my breath, but it would definitely make me feel better about paying full price for Jaguar.)

There are still people bent out of shape about paying full price for Jaguar? Sweet Mother of Mystery. Jaguar is the BOMB! Go back to 10.1, and see if you don't think Jag was worth the cash.

i think the interface is still very incomplete and they're gonna redo the GUI some more than what we have in DP1

Please let this be true.

If it's an $129.00 upgrade then they ought to include a free one-year subscription to .mac or a QuickTime Pro license along with it. they ought to give a QuickTime Pro license to every .mac member.

I wouldn't mind this, but I got FCP, which comes with Quicktime Pro. The thing about Apple doing the free QTP thing would be people complaining that they don't want or need it, and want something else, instead.

I like the discount on Panther with a .Mac account. Or some discounted music or something...back on track, though.

Smart folders would r0x0r.

Tsilou B. · Jul 8, 2003, 02:51 AM

Originally posted by mike one:
totally with you on this one....
don't know if i'll upgrade my ibook600, lots of nice features. we'll have to wait and see what the speed freaks say about this upgrade.

I have seen Panther on a 500MHz iBook and it really seems faster than Jaguar. I guess it's because menus are so much faster in Panther.
Expose worked great. Doesn't look as good or smooth as on a Quartz Extreme machine, but it is absolutely usable. There was not one application that was slower than on Jaguar.

moonmonkey · Jul 8, 2003, 05:13 AM

Originally posted by 7Macfreak:
i think the interface is still very incomplete and they're gonna redo the GUI some more than what we have in DP1

I think losts of the icons will be re-done, they just kept the new ones out of the preview.

I have now reverted back to Jaguar and I realy miss Resume and user switching. They are the best features so far in my opinion.

step · Jul 8, 2003, 06:01 AM

yeah, i'll wait 'til december and pay full price for it, but i'd sure look kinder on apple if they updated jaguar's mail app with the 'sending stuff to pc's' bug fix, that they've apparently solved, and already rolled into panther mail!
That'd be just dandy, thanks

The Placid Casual · Jul 8, 2003, 06:08 AM

Assuming Panther does ship in December, this means G5 owner will have had their machines for possibly 4 months...

I see them/me having to pay a full figure for 10.3, with no cheaper upgrade option offered...

I have delivery a date in the first week of September for my G5 Dualie, I then have my .Mac subscription renewal in October, and QT Pro to pay too...

What are the chances I will have to pay a further �100 for Panther a mere 2 months later?!

Could be worse I suppose, as I will be elligible for a HE discount by then, but that is kind of not the point.

Fall Break · Jul 8, 2003, 07:59 AM

Apple are probably timing it so that G5 owners will pay for the upgrade rather than getting it free, or discounted, more revenue for them.

mitchell_pgh · Jul 8, 2003, 08:19 AM

I think the main reason some people were bent out of shape about the Jaguar price wasn't that they had to pay $129, but that they had $129 only a month or so after purchasing a new computer. It confused a bunch of people, and confusion tends to lead to anger.

The Placid Casual · Jul 8, 2003, 08:36 AM

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
confusion tends to lead to anger.

...anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering.

absmiths · Jul 8, 2003, 10:56 AM

Originally posted by moonmonkey:
I think losts of the icons will be re-done, they just kept the new ones out of the preview.

I have now reverted back to Jaguar and I realy miss Resume and user switching. They are the best features so far in my opinion.

What is Resume? I tried Panther on the PowerBook and I couldn't use Expose (it just screwed up the screen) and User Switching caused a panic about every third time.

-Q- · Jul 8, 2003, 11:11 AM

Originally posted by wtmcgee:
december is fine with me, as long as they continue to update 10.2 until then with some bug fixes and speed bumps, etc. (mainly get the UI to be consistent - see iTunes v. iMovie v. iPhoto to see what i'm talking about. look at the close/minimize/zoom buttons on all 3)

Now that Panther has been officially announced, I don't think there will be any further development of Jag other than prepping it for the new G5 machines. I'd be very surprised to see another bug fix come out after 10.2.7. I'm sure most of their OS dev team is busting hump trying to get Panther out.

Jonesy · Jul 9, 2003, 10:08 AM

MacBidouille and MacRumors say that Panther will be released at MacExpo in Paris in September. I hope it's true as long as it is ready by then.

KidRed · Jul 9, 2003, 10:30 AM

Originally posted by DeathMan:
There are still people bent out of shape about paying full price for Jaguar? Sweet Mother of Mystery. Jaguar is the BOMB! Go back to 10.1, and see if you don't think Jag was worth the cash.

The problem is because of the whole "X" thing. Bad move for Apple as every paid upgrad will be a .x release. By nature most past upgrade were full number releases, 7, 8, 9, X, etc. So people see 10.3 as 9.2 which was free, or 8.1, etc.

So I guess Apple will have paid upgrade on 10.4, 10.5, 10.6 and so on.

KidRed · Jul 9, 2003, 10:35 AM

December?

MacBidouille has received reports that Panther will be made available in its final form at Jobs' Keynote at Apple Expo (Paris, France) on September 16th, 2003.

JLL · Jul 9, 2003, 11:27 AM

Originally posted by KidRed:
The problem is because of the whole "X" thing. Bad move for Apple as every paid upgrad will be a .x release. By nature most past upgrade were full number releases, 7, 8, 9, X, etc.

Um, 7.6, and 8.5?

JLL · Jul 9, 2003, 11:28 AM

Originally posted by KidRed:
December?

MacBidouille has received reports that Panther will be made available in its final form at Jobs' Keynote at Apple Expo (Paris, France) on September 16th, 2003.

I don't think so - I have a feeling that the release date will be announced in Paris.

Sven G · Jul 9, 2003, 01:13 PM

BTW, I just read on an Italian Mac site that Adobe Photoshop 8 might be presented at the next SMAU expo in Milan in October (link): not all that likely, but who knows...

KidRed · Jul 9, 2003, 01:35 PM

Originally posted by JLL:
Um, 7.6, and 8.5?

Um, routinely thru that numbered increment? 7.1, 7.2, 7.3, 7.4, etc? No.

-Q- · Jul 9, 2003, 01:41 PM

Originally posted by KidRed:
The problem is because of the whole "X" thing. Bad move for Apple as every paid upgrad will be a .x release. By nature most past upgrade were full number releases, 7, 8, 9, X, etc. So people see 10.3 as 9.2 which was free, or 8.1, etc.

And Apple has changed that paradigm. For the mac, at least, point releases are full versions and point.point releases are the maintenance updates. It'll take time but people will become accustomed to it.