[allformac]

Ok guys, I need some help here with trying to understand a little more about Mac OSX.

I've read a few opinion articles regarding Mac OSX vs. Windows.

Some authors have brough up the topic that the Mac OS is more of a "windows-centric" interface while Windows is more "application centric".

What does this exactly mean?

And what user interface model is more productive?

I'm just curious because I'm a new Mac Os user and just want to know everything I can about my system.

Thanks

[cpac]

well, I can't be sure what whoever said that meant, but my guess would be (1) that you got it backwards - and the reason I think this is:

Windows is more "window centric" in that each application opens its own window. The menus for that application are contained in that window. Closing an applications window quits the application.

Mac OS is more "application centric" in that closing all the windows for an application doesn't necessarily quit that application. The menu for an application always appears in the menu bar, not in the individual windows of an app.

As to which is better, take a guess at most of the opinions you'll find here.... Some might say Windows is better because you can have several applications with their menus visible at once. Others will say such behavior is disorienting and confusing and that having a single menu bar is far superior.

I personally prefer the Mac way of doing things, and am more productive on a Mac, but really I think you can get used to either (or even both).

[Sage]

Yup, cpac hit the nail on the head. In Windows, everything gets its own menubar, while in Mac OS, there is one ever-present and ever-changing menubar.

I personally prefer the Mac OS way, of course... it's much easier to work with the windows, arrange them how you like, etc.

[Chuckit]

Originally posted by cpac:
well, I can't be sure what whoever said that meant, but my guess would be (1) that you got it backwards

It could be that he was talking about the windowing scheme. In Windows, each program is its own window, so a click on a window brings the whole program to front; meanwhile, in Mac OS X, a click on a window brings only that window to front and leaves the last window you had in front -- even if it belonged to another application -- right behind it, ahead of the application's other windows.

Just an alternate guess.

[DBvader]

yeah, when i switched that was one thing i loved. in the Mac OS youre using applications, and the OS is in the background, in windows, the OS is ever present. youre using the programs in a OS thats always there. OSX is out of your way, so all youre concentrating on is what youre doing

[JLL]

Originally posted by Chuckit:
It could be that he was talking about the windowing scheme. In Windows, each program is its own window, so a click on a window brings the whole program to front; meanwhile, in Mac OS X, a click on a window brings only that window to front and leaves the last window you had in front -- even if it belonged to another application -- right behind it, ahead of the application's other windows.

Just an alternate guess.

That's 100% correct - this is why Mac OS X is called windows (or document) centric.

[natan]

Originally posted by DBvader:
yeah, when i switched that was one thing i loved. in the Mac OS youre using applications, and the OS is in the background, in windows, the OS is ever present. youre using the programs in a OS thats always there. OSX is out of your way, so all youre concentrating on is what youre doing

This is merely the way you choose to interact with Windows, and the way you choose to interact with OS X.

I've seen Mac users who maximize their browsers/Word windows to full screen, install taskbars, etc.

And I've seen Windows users who don't maximize anything, and use their OS in a "windows centric" manner.

I think it's up to the user, of either OS, how he/she wants to interact with it.

[Sven G]

OTOH, the OS X Dock still appears to be rather "application-centric" (with, for example, open, non-minimized windows only available as pop-up menus from their respective app's icon), while the Windows Taskbar lists all open windows, regardless of their belonging to this or that app, or their being minimized or not (a good thing, at least as an option, IMO): the situation is indeed not so clear as to which OS is more "window-centric"...

[decursive]

if you're really bored, there's a good summary of it somewhere in here:

http://daringfireball.net/2003/05/th...ckthrough.html

Visually, the Windows paradigm is much more window-centric than it is application-centric. (Hence the name “Windows”, I suppose.) The whole idea behind the Windows paradigm is simply that you have a bunch of windows on screen (or minimized into the taskbar). Compare and contrast to the Mac paradigm, which is that you have a bunch of apps running, and the apps have windows. On the Mac, you get a list of running applications — on OS 9, in the top-right application menu; on OS X, in the Dock — whereas on Windows, you get a list of open windows.

[DeathMan]

Originally posted by natan:
This is merely the way you choose to interact with Windows, and the way you choose to interact with OS X.

I've seen Mac users who maximize their browsers/Word windows to full screen, install taskbars, etc.

And I've seen Windows users who don't maximize anything, and use their OS in a "windows centric" manner.

I think it's up to the user, of either OS, how he/she wants to interact with it.

The real issue here is which direction the OS naturally takes you. Windows *wants* you to work with maximized windows. I feel this discourages interoperability between applications. Try to drag an image from Internet Explorer into Photoshop. It can be done, I think, but its a big pain in the butt.

Even when we went to OS X, I didn't like how when you click on a Photoshop window, it doesn't bring all the other Photoshop windows to the front. This is a good thing, and I see that, because it encourages you to work between apps. I can have an illustrator window open, and pull a photoshop window forward without covering my illustrator window with the other 10 photoshop windows I have open.

I need more RAM.

[wataru]

I HATE how Windows is app-centric. You have to have two instances of apps open in order to see two docs at the same time without completely blocking the background.

My rabid PC-loving friend doesn't see what's wrong with that.

[natan]

Originally posted by wataru:
I HATE how Windows is app-centric. You have to open two instances of apps open in order to see two docs at the same time without completely blocking the background.

My rabid PC-loving friend doesn't see what's wrong with that.

True. The Windows "container paradigm" is one of the lamest GUI progressions of all time. Yuck.

[BuonRotto]

A more pedantic person, like me , would say the debate is between a document-centric OS and an application-centric OS.

The Mac OS is document-centric. A window = a document, or in the case of OS X, a window is also an index (most metal apps like iTunes, iPhoto, the Panther Finder, Safari, etc.).

Windows is application-centric. A window= an application, with more windows inside. This called MDI, Multiple Document Interface, or parent-child windows. link

Apple's philosophy (for lack of abetter term) is that applications (their term) perform specific functions -- apply data and tools in a certain way. Therefore, if a document needs a certain tool, it goes to that application. You would have several or many applications to use on a single document, and the Mac OS makes this interoperability easier by allowing windows to interleave, and promoting drag-and-drop and cut-and-paste among apps. The Dock or app switcher is meant to perform the inverse function: handle applications since the rest of the screen is suited for handling individual documents.

The Windows philosophy is that the user works with a document in an program (their term) until they are finished. Therefore, a program can have many different types of tools, many functions, even if it means that the tools among the programs are independent and redundant. That's why a Windows program will completely cover others; it assumes other programs are necessary for the task. Since programs take over most of the screen space, the taskbar is designed to perform to reveal the other stuff. This has been modified since then, as the Mac OS has also been modified. The EOL objects in Windows are an attempt to make cut-and-paste among programs easier, and some Windows applications aren't strictly MDI, like how IE and Office documents try to appear as separate processes (note that Office documents still use the MDI window-within-window structure, but show up in the taskbar separately).

[clarkgoble]

First off to those saying Windows is application centric. How many Windows programs do you use? Yes Windows once was like this. But many, if not most, new Windows programs don't use the MDI interface. (One window for all documents) Look at Word, Outlook or Internet Explorer for instance. There you have a very document / windows centric conception. More so even than the Mac.

Yes there still are programs that for reasons that escape me use the older form that was popular in Windows 3.1 and Windows95. But few applications ought to. (I can justify it is "project" oriented programs, like Visual Studio - although I admit I'd prefer the Mac way)

In some ways Windows is more document-centric. We still have OLE there whereas there really isn't the equivalent on the Mac since OSX. OSX also got rid of publish and subscribe, one of the few things about the old school Mac that I liked. Likewise, as someone mentioned, the taskbar is oriented around program icons and not documents or projects.

I must admit that one of the two things I was hoping for in Panther were a more document or project centric process model for the dock and the OS in general. Unfortunately that, possibly along with "smart folders" in the Finder, doesn't appear to be part of OSX. Perhaps wisely. There are many, many problems with this view. Further to really promote such a change Apple would have to have its Office killer out. (Otherwise you end up with a situation as in the old Mac where Apple had some great ideas that even they never used much - i.e. Opendoc, QuickdrawGX, etc. -- Appleworks never seemed to make use of cool Apple technologies and unfortunately the current Appleworks is a great example of this - it uses few OSX 10.0 features)

[rytc]

Originally posted by natan:
True. The Windows "container paradigm" is one of the lamest GUI progressions of all time. Yuck.

Yea that's got to be one of my biggest gripes with Windows, having all those windows restrained within that container as you put it. Word used to use it and now doesn't, Explorer never did I don't think, but pretty all the Adobe apps use it - so I don't think its merely a hangover, people obviously like it.