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Jeff Jones · Jul 25, 2003, 06:32 AM

Hello World!

I was wondering, is there a tool that allows you to click-and-hold to invoke the context menu (as in control-click)? You have that option in the dock, and FinderPop implemented it in the classic OS. But I am not aware of any such tool for OS X.

Someone come across such an app/hack/whatever? Would it be difficult to implement it (say with Unsanity's Application Enhancer framework, for instance, or by any other means)?

JJ.

shortcipher · Jul 25, 2003, 07:47 AM

FruitMenu

Adam Betts · Jul 25, 2003, 08:33 AM

Why not get two-buttons mouse? That's what everyone is doing.

MjP2 · Jul 25, 2003, 01:13 PM

Originally posted by Adam Betts:
Why not get two-buttons mouse? That's what everyone is doing.

And two-button touch pads?

(it's a pain trying to find ctrl-key when using your left hand with touch pad...)

tikki · Jul 25, 2003, 05:23 PM

Originally posted by Adam Betts:
Why not get two-buttons mouse? That's what everyone is doing.

because if Apple is going to push a one button mouse, they should make it easier to access a contextual menu.

brachiator · Jul 27, 2003, 03:37 PM

Originally posted by shortcipher:
FruitMenu

Thanks! I've been using FM for quite a while and never noticed this.

It's nice to have in the finder, but it would be even nicer to have implemented systemwide.

Am I just nuts, or wasn't systemwide click-hold for CMs standard in early OSX... or was it OS9?

(Yes, I'm going to send feedback to Unsanity!

)

Jeff Jones · Jul 28, 2003, 06:56 AM

That's what I was wondering, too! I havn't tried FM, but from their webpage it looks like it indeed only works in the finder. (Which is a start, though...)

I will also send feedback to Unsanity. Does nobody else miss this feature? I always thought it was much better (on my PB) than a second trackpad button.

JJ.

Terri · Jul 28, 2003, 07:37 AM

Since I use a two button mouse I would like to turn it off. It is always coming up in Mozilla when I don't want it to.

jasong · Jul 28, 2003, 08:06 AM

what I'd like to see is something that lets me assign tapping on the track pad as left click and clicking the button as right (or vice-versa).

Anything to do this?

-- Jason

Jeff Jones · Jul 28, 2003, 09:16 AM

Tapping for "right-click" is actually not a bad idea. I have not yet come across an app that would allow you to do this. I shall therefore include that suggestion in my feedback to Unsanity. You probably should contact them too.

One other thing has come to my mind. So far, Unsanity Fruit Menu is the only app that allows you have click-and-hold, albeit only in the finder. However, there is uControl which allows you to use the trackpad as a scroll wheel. Maybe that could be an other way. I will send them feedback too.

Jeff Jones · Jul 29, 2003, 02:58 AM

Well, since uControl only intercepts the keyboard signals, this will not be an option. Hopefully it can be done with Application Enhancer!

Basilisk · Jul 29, 2003, 03:12 PM

It can't be done with APE. The mapping of the physical button and tap on the pad occurs within the driver, far too low for APE to catch.

I'm not sure who you asked about uControl, but uControl does catch mouse events (that's how the scroll emulation works). Right now that catch is too high in the kernel event processing to differentiate the click types, but that is being looked at (no promises though, its a complex hack and I'm not sure it can be done safely yet).

Bas

Ilja · Jul 29, 2003, 06:57 PM

more than slightly offtopic, but why has apple never incorporated the right-mouse button? I know it's a MS-invention, but it's the only thing I miss as an ex-Windows user... (I know you can use a 2-button mouse however, but my TiBook only has one mouse-button)

Arkham_c · Jul 29, 2003, 09:41 PM

Originally posted by Ilja:
more than slightly offtopic, but why has apple never incorporated the right-mouse button? I know it's a MS-invention, but it's the only thing I miss as an ex-Windows user... (I know you can use a 2-button mouse however, but my TiBook only has one mouse-button)

Ever seen a new user with a computer (or a child? same thing)? The right mouse button is a source of frustration.

I think Apple should ship a "convertible" mouse that can be either a 1-button or 2-button based on the face you attach on top. Great for newbies, great for power users.

DVD Plaza · Jul 29, 2003, 10:26 PM

I can't stand not having a secondary trackpad button on my PowerBooks - I almost exclusively use an external two-button mouse (Microsoft Wireless Blue on my 17", MS IntelliMouse Explorer on my 15"), context-menus are as convenient as the entire concept of a GUI in my opinion.

If there are people on this planet that can't comprehend two buttons, then why not an option in the preferences for both buttons to act as the primary? Mind you, for Carbon applications that's what the secondary button does on controls anyway (whereas with Cocoa applications only the primary button will act - except the menu bar which will, regardless of application type, respond to either button).

Jeff Jones · Jul 30, 2003, 03:09 AM

@basilisk:

Are you sure uControl is catching the mouse events? Because the scrollwheel emulation basically depends on a keystroke, as do all the other things that uControl can do. It also says on the webpage that it catches keyboard events. That's why I figured click-n-hold could not be done with this approach.

Well, if I was wrong, the better. That at least leaves us hope...

@all:

Does anyone have an idea how it was done in Finderpop? I mean now, when most of the underpinnings are open sourced, there should be much more possibilities to implement such things. With OS 9 this should have been much more difficult. Yet it could be done. Leaves me wondering if the same approach would work in OS X, too.

By the way, I'm no programmer (well, apart from a few Python apps) and certainly don't know much about low level programming. Heck, I don't even know on which level click-n-hold could be implemented. But I really miss the feature. And with all the "new stuff" that can be done with OS X, there must be some way...

JJ.

Basilisk · Jul 30, 2003, 09:11 AM

Are you sure uControl is catching the mouse events?

I'm positive. (I wrote that part

)

I should also be clear about what part of your post I was referencing...

Click-and-hold isn't actually very likely in uControl. This has been looked at before and it doesn't work well. This is a good candidate for an APE.

What can't be done in an APE is the trackpad tricks (again, no promises, just research for now).

Bas

Jeff Jones · Jul 30, 2003, 10:00 AM

I'm positive. (I wrote that part

)

Very nice! So I guess you know what you're talking about...

Guess it's back to Application Enhancer then. Has anyone got experience?

Bas? You wouldn't be knowledgeable and/or willing to try it?

(I would do it, but I haven't got the time/am no programmer/wouldn't be able to do it correctly/the usual excuses...)

Anyone?

Basilisk · Jul 30, 2003, 10:15 AM

Bas? You wouldn't be knowledgeable and/or willing to try it?

Afraid not, at least not for a good while. I've got a (very large) project on my plate already, plus I've got to start porting my other stuff to Panther.

Plus, I'm not sure I know where to begin. I understand the level it needs to be at, but I'd have to do a lot of research to learn how to implement it.

Truthfully, I'd ask Unsanity. Its a logical extension of FruitMenu and they've obviously already got some code to do it (at least for the specific case of the Finder).

Bas

koffinkanser · Aug 5, 2003, 01:41 PM

I've been pining for this feature for the longest time. Submitted feedback to Apple too.

It's such a simple idea. Apple has already implemented this with the Dock. There are three ways to access the Dock's menus. Right-click (for those with multiple-button mice), Ctrl-click, and click 'n' hold.

So why not implement this same idea system-wide, even third-party applications?

Those of you who say, well, it could be annoying because menus could be popping up where we don't want them to....

well, Apple can allow users to activate/deactivate it and customize it like spring-loaded folders, which allows users to set the delay time.

Chances are, people don't hold their mouse button down on one spot for too long a time. And if they do, they can make the delay longer so that menus don't pop up. If that isn't enough, then the whole click 'n' hold can be deactivated altogether.

I love the one-button mouse. It's simple, it's elegant, and it's not confusing for new users. if you don't agree, it's ok. but that is not the issue here. the issue here is that all of that elegance and simplicity can be preserved, YET, the one-button mouse can become so much more powerful.

And with options a la spring-loaded folders available, what's not to like? You don't like it? Turn it off and go back to ctrl-clicking! You want it to wait a little longer? Sure. You want the menu to come up almost immediately? No problem either!

This is perfect. Now, if only Apple would agree.

headbirth · Aug 6, 2003, 07:42 AM

Definetly skip FruitMenu's hacks and go with Eric Cole's ITTEC from balancesoftware (http://www.balancesoftware.com)

koffinkanser · Aug 6, 2003, 09:02 AM

that only works in the finder. most of the hack solutions only work in the finder.

is there anyway possible to make something like this work system-wide? short of convincing apple that this is a good idea?

regardless, i am curious to know if my suggestion makes sense, or am i the only one who sees click-n-hold context menus as an excellent idea?

omniweb implements it rather nicely...

stew · Aug 6, 2003, 09:58 AM

Originally posted by jasong:
what I'd like to see is something that lets me assign tapping on the track pad as left click and clicking the button as right (or vice-versa).

Bad idea. How are you going to move windows, drag icons or select text?

Basilisk · Aug 6, 2003, 11:18 AM

Bad idea. How are you going to move windows, drag icons or select text?

Same way it works now for those who use trackpad taps as left click on their PowerBooks, through the use of gestures. Apple has always supported (since very early PowerBooks) the use of tap gestures to start drags. If you have a PowerBook you can go to your Mouse control panel to turn this on.

Definetly skip FruitMenu's hacks and go with Eric Cole's ITTEC from balancesoftware

I like Ittec, but lets be clear, Ittec is no less hacky than FruitMenu. Both are hooking into the Finder's event structure to do what they do, its just a question of how they do it. FruitMenu is an APE, Ittec is loaded into the Finder as a Contextual Menu plugin. The fact that the CM plugin architecture is the load mechanism doesn't make the fact that Ittec reaches into private areas of the Finder to do its thing any less of a "hack".

Bas

stew · Aug 6, 2003, 11:22 AM

Originally posted by Basilisk:
Same way it works now for those who use trackpad taps as left click on their PowerBooks, through the use of gestures. Apple has always supported (since very early PowerBooks) the use of tap gestures to start drags. If you have a PowerBook you can go to your Mouse control panel to turn this on.

I found that the most unreliable and annoying feature ever. I always trigger dragging accidently or just click when I want to drag.

Basilisk · Aug 6, 2003, 11:42 AM

I found that the most unreliable and annoying feature ever. I always trigger dragging accidently or just click when I want to drag.

I'm not a fan myself, but some people swear by it. I always end up clicking on things I don't mean to. I do, however, think its probably one of those things that you adapt to over time. I've had it turned on for a while recently and while I can't say I got used to it in a few hours, I was much less prone to accidental taps after a few hours than I had been at the beginning.

Bas

Mac The Fork · Aug 6, 2003, 08:44 PM

If there are people on this planet that can't comprehend two buttons, then why not an option in the preferences for both buttons to act as the primary?

It's not comprehension, it's motor skills. Seniors especially have a difficult time with this. An option to have both buttons act the same, turned on by default, might be a decent compromise.

koffinkanser · Aug 6, 2003, 11:25 PM

what about the approach i suggested? nobody seems to think it's a good idea?

and some convoluted two-button mouse with both buttons acting the same, or some tap for left click/button for right click solution is being discussed as if that's a better solution.

besides, the topic here is click 'n' hold for context menu. why does it always have to degenerate into a one-button v two-button mouse argument?