[brainchild2b]

Font Panel royally pisses me off why the HELL can't I have a freaking option to have a font menu?

I gotta open a stupid #(%*#)%#&%)(#*&%)#& window everytime I wanna change a font.

Why in the $#$#$#( do I have to have a 3rd party app to do something that should be built in? Way to take care of your DTP customers Apple!!!!

[electropura]

A full blown font manager similar to ATM (but way cooler) is included in Panther.

In the interim, you might want to consider a switch to decaf.

[Mr. Blur]

Originally posted by electropura:
In the interim, you might want to consider a switch to decaf.

[brainchild2b]

I'm in Panther, the font manager doesn't do crap. Tell me I'm wrong and should have to open a freaking window every time I want to switch a font.

Tell that to a DTP/Prepress place and watch them cry

[electropura]

The feature set for Panther is far from closed...have you written feedback to apple concerning this? They actually do listen when enough people request something. They probably hit the delete button pretty quickly when they receive infantile tirades, however.

Which DTP apps require you to open the font panel to change the font?...PS7, AI 10 and Quark don't seem to require this....admittedly a WYSIWYG menu would be nice...

[Powaqqatsi]

Originally posted by electropura:
A full blown font manager similar to ATM (but way cooler) is included in Panther.

In the interim, you might want to consider a switch to decaf.

I think he means the font panel in Cocoa apps, not font management.

[brainchild2b]

Yeah why don't I have the option of a universal font menu. In 7b21 (latest panther) they ad stuff like high quality drop shadows to the Font Panel, yet I still have no option to have a font menu. Sure I could use a 3rd party hack I'm sure.

But wouldn't it be much better if say I could arrange (in the font panel) my favorites and have my font menu arranged by that say:

web productions fonts > fonts
Corporate Fonts > fonts
Dingbats > fonts
Special Characters >fonts

Or something like that in my menu. Why? oh Why?

Where is the Apple innovation?

[brainchild2b]

I've sent Apple polite feedback about this since DP1.

I just think nobody at Apple uses fonts.

if a 3rd party utility were available for free that did this everyone would have it installed on there computer. Apple needs to pick up the ball and give me back some of the functionality with the font menu we've grown to love.

[- - e r i k - -]

I hate to say this, but the concept of a menu to display fonts were quite OK when all you had were ten fonts. Any more than that and you get a usability nightmare that can even surpass the "Country Selection" drop down menus of the web. Menus are simply not made for an endless number of items.

The font panel is a floating palette and it makes sense if you remember to keep it open when editing a document. You can have font sets and type the first letter to go to that font.

It actually makes managing a whole bunch of fonts a lot easier once you get used to it.

[Chuckit]

Originally posted by - - e r i k - -:
I hate to say this, but the concept of a menu to display fonts were quite OK when all you had were ten fonts. Any more than that and you get a usability nightmare that can even surpass the "Country Selection" drop down menus of the web. Menus are simply not made for an endless number of items.

Except that the font panel is still basically the same thing (and in fact if you shrink it down to a small size, it becomes a series of popup menus), only now it's stuck in a floating panel that's always there. I don't find choosing one font out of 500 especially easier in a floating panel than in a menu from the menu bar -- actually, I find it somewhat harder, since I can't make the font panel as long as the font menu without wasting massive amounts of screen real estate.

I do have to say, though, that the new Panther font panel that is actually something more than a glorified font menu looks pretty nice.

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally posted by Chuckit:
Except that the font panel is still basically the same thing (and in fact if you shrink it down to a small size, it becomes a series of popup menus), only now it's stuck in a floating panel that's always there. I don't find choosing one font out of 500 especially easier in a floating panel than in a menu from the menu bar -- actually, I find it somewhat harder, since I can't make the font panel as long as the font menu without wasting massive amounts of screen real estate.

True that. In any case, if I had 1000 fonts (I actually had plenty more than that at some point) and I want to select Zapfino, in the font panel (Jaguar) I could either have selected a font set in which I had but it, or at least scroll a whole lot faster (by dragging the scroll bar) than I could in a menu.

The Panther font panel is massively improved with it's live filtering (you can't actually type a letter to go to that font in Jaguar, sorry).

[Mediaman_12]

Originally posted by electropura:
.admittedly a WYSIWYG menu would be nice...

No! No! No! A WYSIWYG font menu is a usability nightmare. Sure it's ok for lots of 'regular' fonts, but what about display fonts, that aren't legible at less than 25point, pixel fonts that have to be at a certain pixel size to be legible, and what if you have lots of 'dingbats' type fonts, that aren't even letters.
You just end up with a list of words that is mostly an illegible mess.

[brainchild2b]

A menu with options is best. If I want WYSIWYG then I have it, if not I turn it off. I have 500 fonts that doesn't mean They would all be listed out there. I'm suggesting only groups of fonts be listed.

So if I have a favorites group and a few others that's what would be under the font menu. It gives me total control over what goes in my font menu.

And for those who didn't want it they could turn it off.

Options are nice.

[Lew]

Originally posted by Mediaman_12:
No! No! No! A WYSIWYG font menu is a usability nightmare. Sure it's ok for lots of 'regular' fonts, but what about display fonts, that aren't legible at less than 25point, pixel fonts that have to be at a certain pixel size to be legible, and what if you have lots of 'dingbats' type fonts, that aren't even letters.
You just end up with a list of words that is mostly an illegible mess.

You could slways do it like this:




Note how symbol fonts have both their name and a preview.

[SMacTech]

Isn't this something that the application developer provides or is responsible for, not the OS? The OS provides the font panel via an API. I provide a font menu and contextual font menu in my app, as well as the ability to bring up the font panel. I like to give the user ' options '.

[BuonRotto]

http://www.stone.com/FontSight/FontSight.html

For me, the font panel is faster than moving through a menu for all those settings.

PS: here's an updated pic of the font panel in Panther. It's more than just font selection now, it contains all the controls for formatting and previews too. Don't forget you can shrink it quite a bit into a small window with pop-up menus.

[Zadian]

Originally posted by Chuckit:
I don't find choosing one font out of 500 especially easier in a floating panel than in a menu from the menu bar

You could make font collections and sort your fonts in smaller and more logical groups.
And you can specify favourite fonts (including size and style).

That's what i do, and i miss the font panel in carbon apps.

But a font menu with your favourite fonts or a special font collection would be a nice addition.

[malvolio]

Originally posted by brainchild2b:
A menu with options is best. If I want WYSIWYG then I have it, if not I turn it off. I have 500 fonts that doesn't mean They would all be listed out there. I'm suggesting only groups of fonts be listed.

So if I have a favorites group and a few others that's what would be under the font menu. It gives me total control over what goes in my font menu.

What you describe sounds remarkably like FontAgent Pro. Not free, but it does a great job managing my 2500+ fonts.