[yticolev]

I noticed that when I loaded Quicken in OS 9 that it would quit before opening shortly after installing OS X. I discovered that the Quicken preference was corrupted and was corrupt everytime I rebooted. This also happened in Classic. A few weeks later, I started having crashing in various programs, alway while entering text. The programs affected were Clarisworks, Word, Claris Emailer, Outlook Express, and the Internet control panel in OS 9, OS X, and Classic. The internet preference crash in OS X was repeatable. The other crashes on text entry were random, varied from a week with no problems to only a few letters typed before freezing with no force quit available in any OS. In addition, if I forgot to delete the corrupt Quicken preference before opening Quicken in either operating system (Classic in OSX), a freeze was repeatable.

Pretty strange. Never had this kind of problem in 10 years of steady Mac use until installing OSX. I have done the usual problem solvers that I know about, zapped the PRAM and rebuilt the desktop, run Disk First Aid, and the Hardware CD. Am I going to have to reinstall everything or is there a known conflict somewhere? I am using the original PowerBook G4 500 with OS 9.2.2 and OS 10.2.1. Sure is weird that the freezes are identical for the two operating systems. It's driving me crazy, I feel like my friends must feel with their windows laptops.

Thanks in advance for any hints and sorry about the repeated post. No one replied to the last and I had to give up trying to email last night. I am using the computer at work to write this.

[msuper69]

Run Repair Permissions.

Update to 10.2.6.

Get the OS X version of Quicken.

[cpac]

Originally posted by yticolev:
I noticed that when I loaded Quicken in OS 9 that it would quit before opening shortly after installing OS X. I discovered that the Quicken preference was corrupted and was corrupt everytime I rebooted.This also happened in Classic.

A corrupt file is not repaired by rebooting. You either have to repair the file in question (or as that usually doesn't work) you need to delete it so a new, clean preference file gets created.

A few weeks later, I started having crashing in various programs, alway while entering text. The programs affected were Clarisworks, Word, Claris Emailer, Outlook Express, and the Internet control panel in OS 9, OS X, and Classic. The internet preference crash in OS X was repeatable. The other crashes on text entry were random, varied from a week with no problems to only a few letters typed before freezing with no force quit available in any OS

This could be a few things:

(1) you could have a corrupt font that all these programs use
(2) you could have corrupted all the preference files for these applications
(3) you could have some bad RAM
(4) you could be running very low on hard drive space causing all kinds of problems (less than a gig or so free = bad)
(5) you could have a bad/dying hard drive

In addition, if I forgot to delete the corrupt Quicken preference before opening Quicken in either operating system (Classic in OSX), a freeze was repeatable.

That would be expected.

Before you go reinstalling like a maniac, answer these questions:

(0) did I update to 10.2.6?
(1) do I have enough free disk space?
(2) have I tried trashing all the preference files for the applications that freeze?
(3) have I tried creating another user and seeing if I get the same crashes using that user (this would suggest corrupt preference files or similar)
(4) have I done disk repair and repaired all problems and repeated until I get no reported errors?
(5) have I repaired permissions?

If all of this doesn't fix your problem you probably need to reinstall. Since these errors appears shortly after you installed OS X it sounds like you probably had some error while installing that is causing the problems (like having the install trash some of your preference files or something).

[yticolev]

Thanks for your reply.

I have also looked tonight at the keyboard connectors which appear to be fine.

Since I crash booted into either OS 9 or OS 10 with text entry, it seems unlikely that updating to OS 10.2.6 will help or repairing permissions. But on the other hand, since installing OS 10 has also screwed up OS 9 (where I spend the majority of my time), could updating the OS correct the OS 9 problems?

The very first time that I tried to enter data to connect to the internet in OS 10 I crashed - I would presume that that was a virgin preference. RAM was checked by the Hardware Test CD. No reported errors with Disk First Aid. Lots or hard drive space.

The idea about corrupted fonts sounds promising if the fonts are truly shared cross platform. How would I go about exploring that?

Most of my crashes occurred with the hard drive spun down and not enough text entry to warrant spinning up. Under these conditions, is your suggestion of a bad hard drive still valid?

Thanks again for your reply. I am frustrated enough that if an updated 15" was available, I would buy it tomorrow. I crashed 8 times tonight trying to write 4 emails.

[Uncle Skeleton]

Be aware that hardware testing software is not the last word in bad components. The only way to truly know if it's bad RAM (which sounds to me like the most likely culprit) is to remove each module in turn and see if the problem persists (if you don't have more than one module, this is the perfect excuse to upgrade)

btw, what is your hardware?

[suprz]

if you really want to crash OSX use limewire!
my B&W G3 actually froze (no kernel panics, just dead in the water FROZE)the other night while trying to open a file with limewire running. damn limewire!

[cpac]

Originally posted by yticolev:
Since I crash booted into either OS 9 or OS 10 with text entry, it seems unlikely that updating to OS 10.2.6 will help or repairing permissions. But on the other hand, since installing OS 10 has also screwed up OS 9 (where I spend the majority of my time), could updating the OS correct the OS 9 problems?

It might. Worth a shot anyway.

The very first time that I tried to enter data to connect to the internet in OS 10 I crashed - I would presume that that was a virgin preference. RAM was checked by the Hardware Test CD. No reported errors with Disk First Aid. Lots or hard drive space.

That suggests that your installation was screwy in one way or another. Really the fastest way to fix things might be to back-up your important data, wipe the drive, and then install a fresh copy of everything.

The idea about corrupted fonts sounds promising if the fonts are truly shared cross platform. How would I go about exploring that?

You'd remove all your fonts from the various font folders, launch, and see if you crash. If you don't, you keep adding fonts back one or a few at a time until you start crashing. Then you know which font it is.

Most of my crashes occurred with the hard drive spun down and not enough text entry to warrant spinning up. Under these conditions, is your suggestion of a bad hard drive still valid?

You never know.

Bottom line? The fastest way to fix whatever's wrong probably will be a wipe drive/reinstall. It sounds like some basic file somewhere is screwed up and if the whole permissions fix/disk repair didn't get it, it could take a long long time to track down the problem.

[poochg3]

I had to register for this one. I had the same problem you are having. A ton of my apps would crash especially when entering in text or going to save something. I could not for the life of me figure it out. I did everything mentioned above and nothing worked. I even re-installed the system which did nothing to solve the problem. I then just on a hunch went to my prefs folder in my user folder and made a new prefs folder and named the other "old prefs". I restarted my comptuer and to my suprise the problem was now solved. The only bad part was I had to keep going back to move some of my prefs back to the active folder so I could get back my user settings. Not sure which prefs file was corrupt but for me that did the trick. Hope this helps.

Good Luck!

[yticolev]

poochg3,

Thanks for the tip. When your apps crashed, were you able to force quit? And did you (if able on your computer) boot into OS 9 with similar problems? It is hard for me to understand how a preference folder for OS 10 would affect OS 9 but clearly installing OS 10 has hurt me big so I will try it.

Does anyone else have OS X freeze without a kernal panic or being able to force quit the offending program? I thought that this was not supposed to be possible in OS X!

[malvolio]

Originally posted by yticolev:
Does anyone else have OS X freeze without a kernal panic or being able to force quit the offending program? I thought that this was not supposed to be possible in OS X!

I have had this happen, especially with the previously mentioned LimeWire (total POS).
But it's not a real "freeze." When it happens, go brew a pot of coffee or something. Eventually your system will become responsive again.

[Big Mac]

This isn't the way OS X is designed to operate. Since getting OS X 10.0, I've experienced around two real freezes. The fact that the original poster is having difficulty when booted in both OS 9 and X indicates that OS X isn't to blame. I can't imagine how installing OS X could have adverse effects on OS 9. It sounds like a hardware issue to me. Start verifying that your RAM is good by removing the extra modules, verifying and replacing one at a time. (I know it's a pain, but that's probably what's wrong with your system.) You should also get and run Disk Warrior, because even if it isn't a hard drive error, Disk Warrior's great to have.

[yticolev]

I did try deleting the user preference folder to no avail. Same behaviour. I will try removing memory modules one at a time and see what happens. I suppose it may be just coincidental that my problems started around the time that I installed OS X. But I am wondering Big Mac, might you have a theory why a memory chip problem would only manifest itself on text entry in various programs and platforms and no other actions?

[cpac]

it's been almost a week . . . why not just backup & reinstall?

[Detrius]

If you have another Mac available, try putting it in Firewire Target Disk mode. Then, boot your laptop off of the other mac. Make sure that once you boot up, you unmount your laptop hard drive. If you still get the same crashes, you have a hardware problem (motherboard, processor overheating, ram, something along those lines).

If you don't have the problem anymore, you likely have a software issue (likely, but not definite. It's possible something in your IDE bus is whacked). If it's a software issue affecting both, it is MORE THAN LIKELY A CORRUPTED FONT IN YOUR OS 9 SYSTEM FOLDER. OS X will take advantage of fonts installed in the OS 9 System Folder.

Take this from a Mac Tech.

[absmiths]

Originally posted by yticolev:
I did try deleting the user preference folder to no avail. Same behaviour. I will try removing memory modules one at a time and see what happens. I suppose it may be just coincidental that my problems started around the time that I installed OS X. But I am wondering Big Mac, might you have a theory why a memory chip problem would only manifest itself on text entry in various programs and platforms and no other actions?

It seems unlikely to be a hardware problem since this started happening when he installed OS X. The installer might have updated the drivers on the disk which certainly could affect both OSs. Also, OS X modifies the OS 9 installation system so that as well could affect both (Does this crash occur when you are in OS X and Classic is NOT running?). Anyway, I would start by installing a fresh clean OS 9 ONLY system and run with that for a while. Later, I would install OS X (upgrade all the way to 10.2.6 immediately) and NEVER START CLASSIC. If the problems don't come back, then start Classic and see what happens.

At any rate, that is a systematic test of the software and should identify immediately where the problem is. For what it's worth, I had an OS X installation which was incredibly unstable and it turned out to be because the installation failed but the installer didn't report it. A clean (archive and install) fixed it. Wiping the drive would be even better, though.

[yticolev]

Thanks to all for the tips.

Yes, my computer freezes when booted up to OS X without Classic loaded. I have also booted from my original OS 9 CD-ROM with the same results.

I have not started from scratch for a number of reasons. I am on the road and my OS X and Office CD are a thousand miles away. I am working on a Word document (fortunately, only a little typing is required) that I need to finish. I am nervous about a clean install because that may destroy my ability to use my computer. So I need to back up first (when I get home). I am reluctant to just do a restore, I'd like to wipe my drive and start over. I am inclined to partition as well to make future problems of this sort easier to solve. But before I do so much work, I would really like to isolate the problem and determine if it is hardware or software.

I like the corrupted font theory but I think to properly sort it out will require a clean restore. But I still wonder why a corrupt font would take down OS X and not just the application. And I will try taking RAM modules out one at a time.

[yticolev]

Here is an update for those following my trials. I stopped by an Apple Store a few days ago. The resident Genius was quite sure that it was a software problem. Apparently OS X and OS 9 are quite independent until you run the Classic layer. Then they become somewhat intertwined with the potential to cause the problems I was having with freezes. (He also thought that a corrupted font was a possibilty when asked).

As the easiest thing to try given my circumstances, we updated to OS 10.6 and while it is a little early to be sure, I have not crashed in a couple of days with all three possibilties of operating systems running.

Quicken is still corrupting its preference file though, probably due to the above mentioned intertwining of OS 9 and Classic. I guess I'll have to upgrade to fix that.

But my title still stands, OS X does crash!

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally posted by yticolev:
But my title still stands, OS X does crash!

Look that's not news. No software is infallible, and especially not mammoths like Operating Systems.

That said I have had uptimes of well over 60 days with OS X (this was back in the 10.1 days) and rarely have experienced crashes (freezes or kernel panics). Running the Panther-builds brings back the OS 9 memories

[yticolev]

Just to put closure on my problem, I have not crashed in either OS 9 or X since updating to 10.6. About 6 weeks now so I think that's a cure. What a relief! Thanks to all that offered assistance.

[willed]

Originally posted by yticolev:
we updated to OS 10.6 and while it is a little early to be sure, I have not crashed in a couple of days...

Damn right it's a little early! The rest of us are still on 10.2

[yticolev]

Oops, left out a point two. Make that 10.2.6!

[dlefebvre]

It sure does crash, but less often than anything I worked on (From Mac OS 6 to Mac OS 9 and from Windows 3.1 to 2000. I never tried XP) It's amazingly stable, considering the amount of times IE and Word crashed in may face without bringing everything down.