[kennedy]

The poll says it all...

[- - e r i k - -]

Again: This is a moot point: You don't need to clean install, just do an archive install.

[wrwjpn]

But for those of us who like to do a clean install with every major upgrade, archive and install won't work. I also have backups on CDs and also I have a backup on my external drive. I know that you can't ever trust one backup.

[chris v]

Originally posted by wrwjpn:
But for those of us who like to do a clean install with every major upgrade, archive and install won't work. I also have backups on CDs and also I have a backup on my external drive. I know that you can't ever trust one backup.

Archive and install does install a completely clean system. The only folders it keeps are Apps and Users, and it updates all the Apple apps in the apps folder, too.

If you want that clean, fresh look, just trash your users prefs folder, or create a new user.

CV

[kennedy]

Originally posted by chris v:
Archive and install does install a completely clean system. The only folders it keeps are Apps and Users, and it updates all the Apple apps in the apps folder, too.

Does it delete all the files out of Apps that it previously put there and reinstall its apps among the third-party apps?? Or does it just leave and not disturb any apps that it thinks didn't change from the prior release?? That is what has always concerned me about the Archive Install vs. Clean Install.

But now another thing concerns me, based on the discussion so far...
Does Archive Install also defragment the disk while its at it?

I've been thinking through the different things that people have been suggesting and the different speed results they report from things like clean installs and swap partitions and separate app partitions and so on...

I suspect those that report speedup from addition of a swap partition previously had a one partition install (based on the fact that they tend to be suggesting two partition installs, one being swap). User data files will have a great tendency to scatter files all over, leaving no large blank areas for a swap file to be placed.

In contrast, if you have a separate OS X (OS-only) partition, then the primary write activities are: system updates, swap files, and CD/DVD burns, and a few other temp files. If you always do a reboot prior to doing system updates, then all of those activities should have minimal fragmenting effects. Thus, you should tend to keep that large blank area intact for optimal-speed swap files and such.

Mixing apps into the OS X partition might be okay if you're always careful to reboot prior to doing app installs. Although some apps are bad and store settings and state info in their app directory rather than the user's Library. Such "bad" programs could cause fragmentation over time of that big blank area. Further, its easier to properly size an OS-only partition than it is to size a partition to cover all apps that you may eventually install.

So, based on all the inputs, I am thinking that I at least want to keep my user data separate from my swap area... but that its fine for the swap to be with the OS-only (supported by the fact that I've been doing that on a dozen machines and haven't seen any speed degradation over time).

Thoughts? Is that logic flawed?

[Naz]

I dunno...

I always forget what to do when a new OS comes out...

so with clean install does a software like Office stay on the hard drive or gets deleted?

I'm very behind on this backup my apps thing

[wulf]

1. Deactivate/uninstall all third-party interface enhancements and haxies (e.g., I believe ASM is currently incompatible with Panther)

2. (optional) Delete user prefs (as chris v noted) for that nice fresh clean-install smell

3. Archive + install

All your apps in place. No worries. That's what I'll be doing on my Powerbook.

On my desktop, which runs as a server, there are a lot of persistant processes running. As the setup I have is very stable, I probably won't update it straight away, but wait for awhile and see if any reports come in about things being broken under 10.3.

Then it's a full clone to a spare hard drive before following the steps above.

Generally, the consensus is that fragmentation is not all that much of an issue any more, unless you are seriously into heavy file wrangling (DV, etc.) in which case one should be using dedicated drives for that data anyway.

The key to avoiding fragmentation is to leave free space on your drive. Like at least 10%, preferably 15-25%. Then, assuming your drive is large, there's always contiguous free space for swap files, etc. I run my server all off one single-partition drive and don't notice any speed degradation even after >30 day uptimes (which are common). But it's a 120GB drive and always has at least 20GB free.

I don't see the point of keeping separate partitions on the same master drive, as surely this will only split the difference of any speed advantage? Might as well keep it all on one big drive.

With a copy of Diskwarrior of course

[Judge_Fire]

I just take the App Support and Library stuff aside, format the disk while I'm at it and after installing the system, mostly copy back the stuff.

I'm not sure whether Apple's low level format discovers defects and remaps them all that perfectly, but I'm guessing it doesn't hurt, since I've had an exceptionally smooth Mac experience for the last, umm, 10 years.

J